'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Exactly. For every single season you can say "ok this can happen". A decade in a row not winning it with arguably (most often) the best squads in the competition is underachieving.
Couldn't have said it better myself. 100% my opinion.
Yes he fecked up today big time, yes his team selection and tactics could have been better, but the fact that people keep thinking of CL as some sort of a cup you can dominate by just having more money and better players and that it's the only standard for success is ridiculous. There have only been 3 managers in the history of the game who won it 3 times, this is the max anyone has ever won it, but people treat it as a pretty easy competition because you have money and players.
Tuchel himself lost the final last season with PSG who also have unlimited funds. He won it this year with Chelsea. It happens. This is football.
More caveats for Ferguson. Hampered by a foreigner rule initially, rebuilding a side multiple times while guardiola largely inherited the key players of his. Ferguson himself would be the first to admit we should have won more. To compare the 2 as who's the greatest is madness in my opinion
Since he left barca they've won it again, since he left bayern they've won it and since he's been at City, 2 lesser backed English sides have won it while spurs have matched his final appearance. Underachieving no doubt
Out of the last 10 winners how many fall in to that catagory?
Fergie was older than Pep is now before he even got a chance at competing in the Champs League.
Such comparisons are so badly flawed. Compleyely different eras, resources, even the competition formats and entey requirements have changed.
The Chelsea players had no more experience of winning the Champions League than City's. Their manager had much less than Pep.
Experience is no excuse. If anything City and their manager had the advantage in that regard.
The fact that people think City and PSG are both underachieving because they just can't win CL gives the impression this is the idea.
A manager gets PSG job and people already say he'll be a failure if he doesn't win CL. It just doesn't make any kind of sense.
It's a cup competition in which you face the best of the teams and managers in the world. Shit happens.
And as I said, Tuchel himself lost the final last season with PSG, and it was also their first ever final.
Three premier league titles, an FA cup and four league cups is a decent haul. He could and should have done better in Europe (especially tonight), but I don't think many managers could have matched his consistency in the league, even with the same financial backing. You mentioned Pellegrini and Mancini being able to match what he does, yet they both trailed off horrendously, which isn't surprising as it's hard to maintain consistency which is where Guardiola has done so well, both also had big financial backing and excellent players. I think if Guardiola set up his teams in a more rigid, defensive manner, he probably wouldn't have the same standing. Because he plays in an expansive, flowing manner while simultaneously getting results, it means he's always going to be sought after in a way that Mancini and Pellegrini never would be.
I still think Ferguson is the best manager I've known, but Guardiola will go down as one of the best managers ever and it's well deserved imo
What do you mean by had the best of everything?
do you hear yourself?City are underachieving because they haven't won the CL. They have the best team and were expected to win with their squad.
Let's not act like the CL is full of underdog success stories. Pretty much the same teams have won it for the last 30 years.
Barcelona won the champions league a couple of seasons before he took over. He then went to Bayern, the best team in Germany and European champions. Then at City he had a title winning squad, and spent a massive £832 Million.
Absolutely
They did go very close this year though ?
And there're other top class teams who are on their level in Europe. Bayern for example, you know, the actual title defenders.
It’s happened far too often in big games for Pep now. He’s developing a reputation of being a bottler. Over thinking it far too often and changing what works most likely out of fear of what could happen.
You simply can't ignore the resources and effort they have put into trying to win the competition.
They hired Pep. Spent nearly a billion (on top of a title-winning team). They have failed to do what they set out to. They have underachieved mate.
I hope City's fans have been truly humbled tonight. The cocky arrogance leading up to tonight thinking you'd batter us simply because we'd only played your 'B' team, has bitten you on the arse.
You may think you're the worlds best, and no one can touch you, but its all what happens on the day. Pep is an incredible manager, but he isnt without flaws. One being he is an overthinker. Play your best 11 in their best positions. Simple.
I also love the fact that they arent arsed about losing tonight, as it's an overrated competition anyway.
Have they underachieved with Pep? Domestically no chance, but i dont think they hired him to win them the PL, they may aswell stuck with Pellegrini if that was the remit. I think he was hired with the CL in mind. The squad needs freshening, they've bought a lot of shite. Which clubs dont though, to be fair
You may think you're the worlds best, and no one can touch you, but its all what happens on the day. Pep is an incredible manager, but he isnt without flaws. One being he is an overthinker. Play your best 11 in their best positions. Simple.
I also love the fact that they arent arsed about losing tonight, as it's an overrated competition anyway.
Have they underachieved with Pep? Domestically no chance, but i dont think they hired him to win them the PL, they may aswell stuck with Pellegrini if that was the remit. I think he was hired with the CL in mind. The squad needs freshening, they've bought a lot of shite. Which clubs dont though, to be fair
You don't know what City put as targets for him or what they set out to do. If the CL was the target of his appointment they would have sacked him last season after Lyon defeat.
Only City board know what are the targets from the team and if Pep is achieving them or not.
Come on mete, they obviously brought him in to win the champions league.
Guardiola crashes over and over again because he may know a lot about soccer but he doesn't seem to understand that by letting your opponent attack you every time 4v4, as soon as he gets out of the ridiculous pressure he puts on without a player who defends a damn thing and attacking 8v8 against a wall, you will end up losing against any serious team. Basic math.
Unless you are as immensely superior as you were with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alves... as well as other players like Puyol or Etoo who were not as "ballers" but they had other virtues that are rare in soccer. Even with them it was very difficult to win (if it was done) against Chelsea without going any further.
That Barça would have scored 5 against his best Bayern, 8 against his best City and 10 tonight.
You can't play the Champions League final without a single player who can break Chelsea's attacks and counterattacks.
Unless you are as immensely superior as you were with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alves... as well as other players like Puyol or Etoo who were not as "ballers" but they had other virtues that are rare in soccer. Even with them it was very difficult to win (if it was done) against Chelsea without going any further.
That Barça would have scored 5 against his best Bayern, 8 against his best City and 10 tonight.
You can't play the Champions League final without a single player who can break Chelsea's attacks and counterattacks.
He has literally won 2 trophies just this calendar year.
Yet he's still there even though last 4 years he didn't even manage to get past QF in CL, including losses to Monaco, Spurs and Lyon.
So yeah, I'm sorry, you and others absolutely don't know how City board are thinking.
You're joking right?
He's been building his team over that time. They probably thought that this was the year but he fecked it up trying to massage his own ego
You're the one who's joking obviously if you're just claiming that you absolutely know what City board targeted from Pep.You're joking right?
Again, he has been there for 5 years and his last 4 years he didn't even manage to get past QF.
They could have sacked him a lot sooner if their way of thinking is CL or nothing like some of you keep on thinking.
No point trying to have a discussion with you if you're just going to be silly. You're incredibly naive if you think anything other than Guardiola was brought in solely to win the CL.
Do you think they give a feck about the league cup or the PL? They could hire a Pellegrini or Mancini every other year if they wanted that.
They brought him in to win it ffs.
I’m talking about big games where it’s do or die situations. One trophy was a 38 game trophy and the other a tea cup.
Got knocked out by Spurs in champs league for bottling it. Got knocked out by Lyon for bottling it. Bottled it again tonight.
But which trophies? The "smallest" cup, and a league title. No one is doubting his ability to create a very consistent team that can steamroll over a league. The bottling is reserved for big cup games and in these he lost two titles against Tuchel's Chelsea this season.
They arent going to sack Pep Guardiola. Pep will leave City when he wants, not when they decide.
He is still arguably the best manager out there, but City hired him with hopes of winning the CL. 100%. I'd argue Man City's owners and Pep would have swapped their league title for a win tonight.
I honestly think if Pep left City tomorrow and Klopp took over, they'd win the CL within 3-4 yrs. I dont think at all that Klopp is better, but its Because Klopp doesn't overthink things. Picks his best 11 available and plays them in their correct roles. Job done
There's no argument about it.
Better than being absolutely clueless and thinking I know everything about how a club board think while I'm on my arm chair.
Last season they lost the league and got KOed by Lyon in CL, in his 4th year. Perfect opportunity to sack him if that's the only thing they cared about. They have been shit in Europe during his whole period and losing to inferior sides while they're dominating England but his job was never in danger.
Ultimately we're absolutely clueless what City board want or expect from the team and they might be very damn well pleased with the total dominance over English football and that they're starting to get closer to CL by reaching the final this year. They might be hoping next time they'll pull it off.
But of course go on, maybe you have friends in City board that told you City just hired Pep for CL and nothing else.
Also the comparison with Pellegrini and Mancini is terrible because neither managed to dominate England as much as Guardiola did.
Tactics were woeful. I didnt feel like they were going to score at all.
By that logic, Ferguson was a bottler at United for 25 years other than the 2 in which he won the CL.
You're just so wrong but you can't get it into your headBetter than being absolutely clueless and thinking I know everything about how a club board think while I'm on my arm chair.
Last season they lost the league and got KOed by Lyon in CL, in his 4th year. Perfect opportunity to sack him if that's the only thing they cared about. They have been shit in Europe during his whole period and losing to inferior side while they're dominating England but his job was never in danger.
Ultimately we're absolutely clueless what City board want or expect from the team and they might be very damn well pleased with the total dominance over English football and that they're starting to get closer to CL by reaching the final this year. They might be hoping next time they'll pull it off.
But of course go on, maybe you have friends in City board that told you City just hired Pep for CL and nothing else.
Also the comparison with Pellegrini and Mancini is terrible because neither managed to dominate England as much as Guardiola did.
Barcelona won the CL in 2005, but spent the next two seasons winning nothing, and finished third 18 points behind the winners. The squad was in desperate need of rejuvenating, and he made some big calls. Selling Ronaldinho and Deco, promoting Pedro and Busquets, bringing back Pique and most importantly employing a tactical style that got the best out of the likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. He was lucky to inherit some great players, but there's been a lot of revisionism about his role in the Barcelona success that followed his appointment. No one in 2008 was predicting the levels he'd take that team to, and he deserves a lot of credit for it.
Fair enough about Munich.
Manchester City won the league in the 2013/2014 season, but two seasons passed without them coming close to winning it again, in the season prior to Guardiola taking over Manchester City came 4th with 66 points (ahead of Manchester United on goal difference) , 15 points behind leaders Leicester. Part of this was because Pellegrini had completely lost the City players, but it was still a tough job to walk into. He's obviously spent a massive amount of money, but he's had a good return on it.
Hes nothing but a PE teacher when he doesn’t have prime Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in his teams. :-)
Repeat yourself again that will tell him. If you can't see they brought Pep in because they wanted to win the champions league then your clueless.Better than being absolutely clueless and thinking I know everything about how a club board think while I'm on my arm chair.
Last season they lost the league and got KOed by Lyon in CL, in his 4th year. Perfect opportunity to sack him if that's the only thing they cared about. They have been shit in Europe during his whole period and losing to inferior sides while they're dominating England but his job was never in danger.
Ultimately we're absolutely clueless what City board want or expect from the team and they might be very damn well pleased with the total dominance over English football and that they're starting to get closer to CL by reaching the final this year. They might be hoping next time they'll pull it off.
But of course go on, maybe you have friends in City board that told you City just hired Pep for CL and nothing else.
Also the comparison with Pellegrini and Mancini is terrible because neither managed to dominate England as much as Guardiola did.
Yeah. I'm wrong indeed. You know everything while you're on your chair.You're just so wrong but you can't get it into your head
Anyway, you and others can always believe that Pep is underachieving with City if that makes you feel better about the whole thing.