Yep. H&G bought Liverpool for around £400M and sold it for £300M. Lot easier to find buyers at that price than 10x that.
Joel Glazer sets fan forum date (4th June)
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
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You don't think they'd be keen to avoid a repeat of Liverpool?
The squad part I'd kind of expect to just carry on as it has, as they can point to the fact that we have consistently carried one of the highest wage bills in Europe and one of the very highest net spends in Europe over the past 10 years. So I wouldn't expect a dramatic difference, though the difference you want is it to be used wisely rather than wasted which was our bigger problem. On one hand you can blame the owners for that one as they put incompetent people in charge, on the other hand we do still have one of the highest wage bills so thats about all that could be expected? Year to year spending level proportional to that of similar sized clubs?
Yes I agree with this. They need to modernise and again time will tell. The money has been there though, just not to the extreme of sugar daddy clubs but I'm fine with that as that's not what we are.
You also can't argue with what they have said RE our youth strategy as we've made some very good moves in that area in recent times which look promising.
Do you expect that a club as big and as popular as United won't maintain it's value and income?
Agree about their motives but as an entity the servicing costs are so non-impactful that the club might never pay off that debt and it won't matter one bit. As supporters we can't view the servicing costs as a whole because it's not representative of their impact on the annual budget.
I’d trust a blowjob off of a rabid baboon over anything that this cnut says.
The fan groups and shares is largely meaningless busy work, it's a step in the right direction sure but it's not significant.
The point about debt being normal business practice as if companies never reduce their debt is also missing the point. They piled this debt on to us (not for investment) and in that time the valuation has soared, they should be making a commit to reduce some of it either now or as part of any profit they make from the club. Of course they're greedy feckers leeching off us so they won't.
The point about debt being normal business practice as if companies never reduce their debt is also missing the point. They piled this debt on to us (not for investment) and in that time the valuation has soared, they should be making a commit to reduce some of it either now or as part of any profit they make from the club. Of course they're greedy feckers leeching off us so they won't.
Did anyone ask if his brother Avram will finally cut that rat tail of his?
Yup. Most importantly, whatever investment is done, it has to be long term and sustained. Not a one and done deal. Not a update to the youth and then let it run by itself for another 15 years until it gets outdated. That's still the ultimate worry. It was time for a lot of stuff to get updated over the past 10 years, so it's important that its a true change in attitude to being proactive rather than a normal update that was going to happen anyway, reactively.
The same email that was posted in here an hour ago? Or did you get a special one addressed to you personally?
This one was addressed to me personally yes. It was to my email address and had my name on it.
Just to add they were basically forced to sell after they failed to repay the loan from RBS which they took to buy the Club and I don't see that kind of situation arising at United .
It's the best people could really expect in the short term. Essentially, they can now be supervised and will not have the same level of autonomy as before. The debt situation was never going to be addressed here. Investements on the stadium, academy and training ground were promised. Continued investment in the squad was also highlighted, Woodward's gone, we have a new DOF. So in reality, outside of the Glazers leaving, it's a place that at least allows the football side of things to be successful.
Textbook Mitten.
How special.
How big of a positive thing is this fan share scheme? With the Glazers owning the overwhelming majority of voting shares, how many shares do fans have to buy to influence decisions? This is a business that is worth £3 to £4 billion, it is going to take a lot of fans and a lot of money to get control of enough shares to make the changes people want.
There surely can't be anyway in hell that the owners of a multi billion pounds valued football club are going to give up any real power easily!
Anything is better looking than a face that resembles a dropped lasagne.
Substitute club for business and I'm sure you will find plenty of examples where something big and popular lost value and income.Do you expect that a club as big and as popular as United won't maintain it's value and income?
Agree about their motives but as an entity the servicing costs are so non-impactful that the club might never pay off that debt and it won't matter one bit. As supporters we can't view the servicing costs as a whole because it's not representative of their impact on the annual budget.
Maybe 10 billion pounds over 50 years to United is non impactful, and like you say the numbers don't exactly match up exactly regarding impact on the budget however that's still ten billion (almost) out of the club for something the glazers did just to be able to buy us. Maybe I'm just old school but I like having a plan to pay off my debt at the very least. Could take a few decades but the goal should be to head in that direction.
Give us a meeting with Joel!
*has meeting with Joel & minutes come out*
What’s this bollocks! (Aka not what I wanted to hear) All PR guff! Don’t believe a word of it! I want change and I want it NOW!
Have some patience will you guys come on, things are moving in the right direction and it will take time.
All sounds positive that being said
Edit: Also fan shares will make a difference if you’d actually read the points the shares will allow fans to have the exact same voting powers as the Glazers
Sounds like the same sound bite crap Woodward would usually say at investor/Share holder meetings. I'll believe it when I see it because we've been told this so much, and deliver so little
Season tickets need selling next season.
We'll see whether he lives up to his promises. He'll definitely live up to his promise of continuing to take dividends.
Not really. I think all members of the club will have got them. They are sent to your email and addressed to you.
A new share class with the same voting rights but they aren’t going to give up control so surely those shares will be completely meaningless in the grand scheme of things. But will generate a big load of cash for the Glazers to pocket.
Anyone thinking this is anything more than a a PR stunt should open their eyes.
Anyone thinking this is anything more than a a PR stunt should open their eyes.
I think that was the best we could hope for. Now they have to deliver. I'm not overly keen on the "preliminary", "accelerate the process" and "intensify" words and phrases which sounds a lot like, "sometime, never" to me, but let's see.
You want to look at Glazers ugly face?
Sounds a little promosing but I share the skepticism regarding the "share scheme".
Obviously. I knew that when the email that was posted in this thread was the exact same as the one I received.
I just assumed that since you felt the need to tell us about your personal email as opposed to the one shared in the thread, that you might have some special insight to share.
Clearly I was mistaken.
It's fairly positive. But ultimately toothless.
The Neville petition was calling for something similar. But crucially, it would have allowed fans to veto any major governance decisions.
Where this is different, is that fans will only get an equal number of votes as the Glazer family. So if Joel fancies joining the ESL, that puts the decision at 50% in favour automatically. Then if only 1% of the fans feel the same way, that would theoretically give them a mandate of 50.5%.
There might still be some detail that makes this work differently. But my feeling is that it's nothing more than underpowered version of what the fans actually want. It's intended to pre-empt any legislation that Parliament recommends when it discusses the issue.
Anything that has the word ‘scheme’ in it usually is bollocks.
Statement from MUST
MUST STATEMENT ISSUED TO MEDIA TODAY:
MUST APPEALS TO GLOBAL FANBASE FOLLOWING AMBER LIGHT FOR FAN SHARE SCHEME
In a first ever meeting between Joel Glazer and the Manchester United Fans’ Forum - in which there was a frank exchange of views - it was revealed that Manchester United is in talks with MUST (the Manchester United Supporters Trust www.imust.org.uk ) about a potentially revolutionary new Fan Share Scheme which, if it goes ahead, would allow fans to buy shares in Manchester United with the same super-voting rights as those previously held exclusively by the Glazer Family.
Joel Glazer was held to account on a series of issues including debt, dividend payments, tickets prices, lack of investment in the stadium and lack of engagement with supporters for 16 years.
MUST is cautious about whether this Fan Share Scheme will meet their own tests before they give it approval as despite the huge concession on voting rights that this proposal signals as ever the devil is always in the detail.
In particular, despite Joel Glazers’ assertion that this will be “the largest fan ownership group in world sport”, MUST is concerned that there is a risk that the scheme will limit the number of such Fan Shares made available so reducing the opportunity for this to achieve a meaningful collective fan ownership stake - and ultimately with the potential to result in a change in control of the club.
For that reason - MUST is today signalling their intention to recruit the millions of members of Manchester United's huge global fanbase to unite behind their campaign and sign up to their pre-launch “Sign For United” campaign site at www.SignForUnited.org so they can be part of the campaign when it launches in the next 10 days.
The aim of the campaign is to demonstrate the huge appetite amongst United support for a better model of ownership which embraces the fans at its heart and in so doing compel the club to deliver a really revolutionary Fan Share Scheme which will both excite the fans and also exceed their demand for shares.
MUST STATEMENT ISSUED TO MEDIA TODAY:
MUST APPEALS TO GLOBAL FANBASE FOLLOWING AMBER LIGHT FOR FAN SHARE SCHEME
In a first ever meeting between Joel Glazer and the Manchester United Fans’ Forum - in which there was a frank exchange of views - it was revealed that Manchester United is in talks with MUST (the Manchester United Supporters Trust www.imust.org.uk ) about a potentially revolutionary new Fan Share Scheme which, if it goes ahead, would allow fans to buy shares in Manchester United with the same super-voting rights as those previously held exclusively by the Glazer Family.
Joel Glazer was held to account on a series of issues including debt, dividend payments, tickets prices, lack of investment in the stadium and lack of engagement with supporters for 16 years.
MUST is cautious about whether this Fan Share Scheme will meet their own tests before they give it approval as despite the huge concession on voting rights that this proposal signals as ever the devil is always in the detail.
In particular, despite Joel Glazers’ assertion that this will be “the largest fan ownership group in world sport”, MUST is concerned that there is a risk that the scheme will limit the number of such Fan Shares made available so reducing the opportunity for this to achieve a meaningful collective fan ownership stake - and ultimately with the potential to result in a change in control of the club.
For that reason - MUST is today signalling their intention to recruit the millions of members of Manchester United's huge global fanbase to unite behind their campaign and sign up to their pre-launch “Sign For United” campaign site at www.SignForUnited.org so they can be part of the campaign when it launches in the next 10 days.
The aim of the campaign is to demonstrate the huge appetite amongst United support for a better model of ownership which embraces the fans at its heart and in so doing compel the club to deliver a really revolutionary Fan Share Scheme which will both excite the fans and also exceed their demand for shares.
They will sell 10-15% of the shares to fans. Pocket some of the money and spend some on the stadium, facilities etc. So, basically, the fans will pay for the investments, while share price will rise, thus making the Glazers even more rich. They will never ever give up being the owners and will forever continue to milk the club. Lets see if MUST can force them to do something significant. If not, I am cancelling my membership.
They have agreed to a fan advisory board which can veto such decisions haven’t they? Devil is in the details obviously but ultimately everything today is far better than we had 3 months ago at least.
Lot's of things promised, let's see actions now. Sounds like a productive meeting though.
Release all that pent up aggression
Aggression?Release all that pent up aggression
Not sure where you've picked up that notion? Perhaps it was in an email.
Hopefully. But there's nothing about vetos in the list below. It's a 50-50 vote share combined with 'consultations'.
This feels like their jumping into a bush before they're pushed off a cliff.
There are no sacrifices being made that will hurt their power in the long run.
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That would be an amazing outcome. So they’ve given 15% of the club they legally own to fans with equal voting rights and say half the money raised gets spent on the club...and you’re moaning that would be a negative
For the record I expect them to pocket 100% of the money raised because Glazers gonna Glazer.