TheReligion
Abusive
Perhaps you shouldn't take the Caf so seriously. You can take my username off your dartboardAggression?
Not sure where you've picked up that notion? Perhaps it was in an email.
Perhaps you shouldn't take the Caf so seriously. You can take my username off your dartboardAggression?
Not sure where you've picked up that notion? Perhaps it was in an email.
Ah yeah no veto. In fairness though if they’d had that group 3 months back the ESL never would have got off the groundHopefully. But there's nothing about vetos in the list below. It's a 50-50 vote share combined with 'consultations'.
This feels like their jumping into a bush before they're pushed off a cliff.
There are no sacrifices being made that will hurt their power in the long run.
Maybe they can use the Phoenix Fund to buy some? That’s surely sat in a protected bank account somewhere just for the occasion. The campaign received a lot of publicity so I’m imaging they have quite a lot.MUST calling for people to sign up in readiness for shares to be bought:
https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry...se-following-amber-light-for-fan-share-scheme
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It's the best people could really expect in the short term. Essentially, they can now be supervised and will not have the same level of autonomy as before. The debt situation was never going to be addressed here. Investements on the stadium, academy and training ground were promised. Continued investment in the squad was also highlighted, Woodward's gone, we have a new DOF. So in reality, outside of the Glazers leaving, it's a place that at least allows the football side of things to be successful.
Statement from MUST
MUST STATEMENT ISSUED TO MEDIA TODAY:
MUST APPEALS TO GLOBAL FANBASE FOLLOWING AMBER LIGHT FOR FAN SHARE SCHEME
In a first ever meeting between Joel Glazer and the Manchester United Fans’ Forum - in which there was a frank exchange of views - it was revealed that Manchester United is in talks with MUST (the Manchester United Supporters Trust www.imust.org.uk ) about a potentially revolutionary new Fan Share Scheme which, if it goes ahead, would allow fans to buy shares in Manchester United with the same super-voting rights as those previously held exclusively by the Glazer Family.
Joel Glazer was held to account on a series of issues including debt, dividend payments, tickets prices, lack of investment in the stadium and lack of engagement with supporters for 16 years.
MUST is cautious about whether this Fan Share Scheme will meet their own tests before they give it approval as despite the huge concession on voting rights that this proposal signals as ever the devil is always in the detail.
In particular, despite Joel Glazers’ assertion that this will be “the largest fan ownership group in world sport”, MUST is concerned that there is a risk that the scheme will limit the number of such Fan Shares made available so reducing the opportunity for this to achieve a meaningful collective fan ownership stake - and ultimately with the potential to result in a change in control of the club.
For that reason - MUST is today signalling their intention to recruit the millions of members of Manchester United's huge global fanbase to unite behind their campaign and sign up to their pre-launch “Sign For United” campaign site at www.SignForUnited.org so they can be part of the campaign when it launches in the next 10 days.
The aim of the campaign is to demonstrate the huge appetite amongst United support for a better model of ownership which embraces the fans at its heart and in so doing compel the club to deliver a really revolutionary Fan Share Scheme which will both excite the fans and also exceed their demand for shares.
I know that most people on here have zero clue about accounting and finance but if the shares are owned by the Glazers or their other businesses, they can't put the money into the club without creating more debt for the club. That's not how that works.That would be an amazing outcome. So they’ve given 15% of the club they legally own to fans with equal voting rights and say half the money raised gets spent on the club...and you’re moaning that would be a negative
For the record I expect them to pocket 100% of the money raised because Glazers gonna Glazer.
Maybe because they don't trust the slimy cretins. They're suddenly listening to the fans input after being responsible for spearheading the death of English football and it's culture, having previously run the club into the ground. People can be as negative as they want as far as I'm concerned.When did this place become so fecking negative? They’ve just opened a dialogue with the fans, seem to be willing to listen to our input, committed to an overhaul of OT and training ground - things are clearly moving in the right direction. Yet most will still find a way to spin it negatively, come on
Well yeah they did that, and now seem to have realised their mistake. Everything won’t be perfect overnight but this at least is an improvement. BabystepsMaybe because they don't trust the slimy cretins. They're suddenly listening to the fans input after being responsible for spearheading the death of English football and it's culture, having previously run the club into the ground. People can be as negative as they want as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah this is where I'm at with this.When did this place become so fecking negative? They’ve just opened a dialogue with the fans, seem to be willing to listen to our input, committed to an overhaul of OT and training ground - things are clearly moving in the right direction. Yet most will still find a way to spin it negatively, come on
It is because the debt is currently only costing $20m per year.I don't understand economics much, but isn't there a concept called "Good debt". Many big companies keep debt as a source of funding.
I've been looking at his ugly work for a long time now, the face can't make it any worse.You want to look at Glazers ugly face?
Sure. I've pissed away a fair amount of money in crypto the past few months. Why not try something new.Will many/any of you buy the shares?
I’m pretty broke after the last year but I could get 1/2k together and I’d like to be a small part of any fan movement that goes ahead
Snap! Same here.Sure. I've pissed away a fair amount of money in crypto the past few months. Why not try something new.
I certainly wouldn’t be doing it to make cash! The glazers will surely hold us back a long while yet.Sure. I've pissed away a fair amount of money in crypto the past few months. Why not try something new.
The Fan Share scheme, if it's not all talk and it actually goes ahead, is a big step forward. Allowing fans an equal share in the club and the right to vote effectively puts an end to any future attempts at joining a breakaway league, not to mention any other decision that may adversely affect the club.Statement from MUST
MUST STATEMENT ISSUED TO MEDIA TODAY:
MUST APPEALS TO GLOBAL FANBASE FOLLOWING AMBER LIGHT FOR FAN SHARE SCHEME
In a first ever meeting between Joel Glazer and the Manchester United Fans’ Forum - in which there was a frank exchange of views - it was revealed that Manchester United is in talks with MUST (the Manchester United Supporters Trust www.imust.org.uk ) about a potentially revolutionary new Fan Share Scheme which, if it goes ahead, would allow fans to buy shares in Manchester United with the same super-voting rights as those previously held exclusively by the Glazer Family.
Joel Glazer was held to account on a series of issues including debt, dividend payments, tickets prices, lack of investment in the stadium and lack of engagement with supporters for 16 years.
MUST is cautious about whether this Fan Share Scheme will meet their own tests before they give it approval as despite the huge concession on voting rights that this proposal signals as ever the devil is always in the detail.
In particular, despite Joel Glazers’ assertion that this will be “the largest fan ownership group in world sport”, MUST is concerned that there is a risk that the scheme will limit the number of such Fan Shares made available so reducing the opportunity for this to achieve a meaningful collective fan ownership stake - and ultimately with the potential to result in a change in control of the club.
For that reason - MUST is today signalling their intention to recruit the millions of members of Manchester United's huge global fanbase to unite behind their campaign and sign up to their pre-launch “Sign For United” campaign site at www.SignForUnited.org so they can be part of the campaign when it launches in the next 10 days.
The aim of the campaign is to demonstrate the huge appetite amongst United support for a better model of ownership which embraces the fans at its heart and in so doing compel the club to deliver a really revolutionary Fan Share Scheme which will both excite the fans and also exceed their demand for shares.
I will yes.Will many/any of you buy the shares?
I’m pretty broke after the last year but I could get 1/2k together and I’d like to be a small part of any fan movement that goes ahead
I'm hardly a bottomless pit, but a chance to purchase shares in the club you've supported your entire life doesn't come around every day.Will many/any of you buy the shares?
I’m pretty broke after the last year but I could get 1/2k together and I’d like to be a small part of any fan movement that goes ahead
What kinda of money we going to be talkingI'm hardly a bottomless pit, but a chance to purchase shares in the club you've supported your entire life doesn't come around every day.
I'm genuinely considering it.
We'll need a thread for this when the time comes.I will yes.
Well could get a Caf pot going and buy a load
But to get an equal number of votes as a the Glazer family , wont fans have to buy an equal amount of shares as the Family? If the business is worth £3 to £4 billion , does that not mean fans will have to raise up to £2 billion? If fans can only raise enough to buy 10% of the shares, they wouldn't be entitled to an equal number of votes, or is there something I am missing?It's fairly positive. But ultimately toothless.
The Neville petition was calling for something similar. But crucially, it would have allowed fans to veto any major governance decisions.
Where this is different, is that fans will only get an equal number of votes as the Glazer family. So if Joel fancies joining the ESL, that puts the decision at 50% in favour automatically. Then if only 1% of the fans feel the same way, that would theoretically give them a mandate of 50.5%.
There might still be some detail that makes this work differently. But my feeling is that it's nothing more than underpowered version of what the fans actually want. It's intended to pre-empt any legislation that Parliament recommends when it discusses the issue.
Same. I rarely even get to games anymore but the glazers gave me enough of a fright to think fans need to take some power back or we will actually end up the footballing version of DisneylandI'm hardly a bottomless pit, but a chance to purchase shares in the club you've supported your entire life doesn't come around every day.
I'm genuinely considering it.
Is it though?The Fan Share scheme, if it's not all talk and it actually goes ahead, is a big step forward. Allowing fans an equal share in the club and the right to vote effectively puts an end to any future attempts at joining a breakaway league, not to mention any other decision that may adversely affect the club.
It's huge.
I'm sure I could scrap a few quid together.What kinda of money we going to be talking
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/must-sign-for-united-fan-ownership.463315/We'll need a thread for this he the time comes.
Good call.
We could then vote on things on here (for those who contributed)We'll need a thread for this he the time comes.
Good call.
The Glazers share of the voting rights will trump the fans share, basically its a meaningless exercise and them attempting to 'communicate with the fans'.Give us a meeting with Joel!
*has meeting with Joel & minutes come out*
What’s this bollocks! (Aka not what I wanted to hear) All PR guff! Don’t believe a word of it! I want change and I want it NOW!
Have some patience will you guys come on, things are moving in the right direction and it will take time.
All sounds positive that being said
Edit: Also fan shares will make a difference if you’d actually read the points the shares will allow fans to have the exact same voting powers as the Glazers
I definitely have zero clue how business works! Hypothetically if they were feeling incredibly generous could they not use the money raised as a loan for club infrastructure projects and just never ask for repayments? Or even just write it off? There must be some way to inject that money into the club - it’s finance after all!I know that most people on here have zero clue about accounting and finance but if the shares are owned by the Glazers or their other businesses, they can't put the money into the club without creating more debt for the club. That's not how that works.
For example, if you are a small business owner and you want to fund your own business from your own pocket, that will be accounted as business loan that your business then owes you.
But anyway, back to moaning and screaming
Well said. Sounds positive for now. Let’s hope they really act on it.Short of the Saudi’s offering several billion, they’re clearly not leaving any time soon no matter how much we storm OT. At least the protests have forced them to cede some ground, so if we’re stuck with them we need to at least continue to hold them accountable to not let the club rot. Personally I think the outcome of the forum was positive, but it doesn’t mean a lot until those words turn in to actions.
Yep, debt isn’t always a bad thing and depending on the sources of debt (they all have different interest rates attached to them), it can be cheaper than owners capital/equity investment which has a return attached to it in the form of dividends etc. (Noting dividends aren’t a legal requirement to be paid).I don't understand economics much, but isn't there a concept called "Good debt". Many big companies keep debt as a source of funding.