CPR

mav_9me

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In light of what happened with Eriksen I figured this was a good time to stress on importance of bystander CPR.


If you have any questions, I will try to answer to my best. FYI I am a doctor in America.
 

mav_9me

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I've seen it so much on TV that it seems easy but how hard do you really have to press for compressions?
Technically 2 inches deep. Rhythm is important too as too fast will mean heart doesn't fill up. Also don't worry about cracking ribs.

At the end of the day even bad CPR is better than no CPR.
 

Arruda

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It's the kind of thing of thing that should be mandatory in every basic school curriculum, and reinforced at various stages.

Swimming and general tips about the sea or other swimming spots is another. When I think that I nearly drowned once because I didn't knew how to get out of a rip current - which is incredibly easy... Despite growing up on an island.
 

nimic

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And I'm all out of bubblegum.
I actually thought about this just last night, how the last time I had a first aid course at my work was six years ago, and that wasn't even where I'm working right now. That was another county altogether, but I am sure there everyone had to have one at least every three years.

The closest I've gotten is a short meeting to explain what to do if something happened with one of my students who had diabetes. Even that wasn't very helpful, since it basically came down to "use this syringe or that syringe", and if I used the wrong syringe she would die. It brought on some amount of stress, I don't mind saying. I really wish the school took a more active interest in ensuring that all the teachers are prepared for situations like that.
 

Scarlett Dracarys

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When I had my kids I learned everything just in case. You not only have to know what to do but you also need to practice how to clear your mind and react. You can't be an emotional mess if you're trying to save someone.
 

VorZakone

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My dad literally reminded us all after the Eriksen moment to learn this. ,
 

africanspur

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I've seen it so much on TV that it seems easy but how hard do you really have to press for compressions?
TV chest compressions are almost always totally useless.

They actually need to be pretty brutal. 1/3 of the chest depth (or about 2 inches). Aim for a rate of 100-120 compressions a minute. Slightly morbid choice but we tend to teach 'another one bites the dust' as a good rhythm to guide you. After each compression, you need to release the pressure on the chest, without taking your hands off.

Ideally, the hands should be locked, one over the other and the compressions coming from the palm (or more really the base of the palm) of the lower hand. If you have more than one person who roughly has an idea, its always good to try to swap regularly until proper help arrives as they are exhausting.

So important to learn imo.
 

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TV chest compressions are almost always totally useless.

They actually need to be pretty brutal. 1/3 of the chest depth (or about 2 inches). Aim for a rate of 100-120 compressions a minute. Slightly morbid choice but we tend to teach 'another one bites the dust' as a good rhythm to guide you.
When I did my red cross first aid course the tutor suggested Stayin' Alive by the bee gees. Clearly more of an optimist :D
 

Dan_F

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Well don't leave us hanging!
Swim parallel to the beach. People drown because they try to swim back to shore against current. Growing up near the sea I definitely got taught that at a young age.

I’ve been thinking about doing a first aid course for a while, so maybe this will be the push I need, as I’d probably just shit my pants in that position. I know the recovery position and that’s about it.
 

Scarlett Dracarys

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Swim parallel to the beach. People drown because they try to swim back to shore against current. Growing up near the sea I definitely got taught that at a young age.

I’ve been thinking about doing a first aid course for a while, so maybe this will be the push I need, as I’d probably just shit my pants in that position. I know the recovery position and that’s about it.
First I'll need to learn how to swim
 

King Eric 7

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When I did my red cross first aid course the tutor suggested Stayin' Alive by the bee gees. Clearly more of an optimist :D
An organisation was offering free CPR training near me and so I jumped at the chance, although I'd love to have a refresher. We were taught the Stayin' Alive song as well although they did suggest one or two alternatives which I can't remember right now.
 

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My brother has had to apply CPR numerous times due to his job, I respect the calmness and composure he’s shown in those situations, very unlike me. I think it’s a useful skill for everyone to possess.
 

Arruda

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Well don't leave us hanging!
Just swim sideways instead of against the fecking thing. Then get out. They're not wide at all. Nowadays we get signs like the above in beaches, not when I grew up.
 
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Scarlett Dracarys

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An organisation was offering free CPR training near me and so I jumped at the chance, although I'd love to have a refresher. We were taught the Stayin' Alive song as well although they did suggest one or two alternatives which I can't remember right now.
“Can't Stop the Feeling” – Justin Timberlake is a good one
 

Wibble

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Just swim sideways instead of against the fecking thing. Then get out. They're not wide at all. Nowadays we get signs like the above in beaches, not when I grew up.
Or let the current take you out a bit and swim around and back in where there is no rip. Better still don't get in a rip as they are usually very obvious.
 

maniak

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Also don't worry about cracking ribs.
I am completely ignorant about this topic, so go easy on me. Can't a cracked rib puncture a lung or something if you're applying that much strength?
 

arnie_ni

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I am completely ignorant about this topic, so go easy on me. Can't a cracked rib puncture a lung or something if you're applying that much strength?
I took it to mean its actually a myth and virtually impossible to do in reality, but I could be wrong.
 

Arruda

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I took it to mean its actually a myth and virtually impossible to do in reality, but I could be wrong.
No, you can crack ribs doing CPR. He means that in a situation where you have to perform CPR cracking someone's rib would be the least of your concerns.

@maniak cracked ribs can indeed puncture lungs but I think that only happens in high energy impacts, it won't happen during CPR. People crack ribs all the time, other than the pain it's rarely an issue. And even if it did happen during CPR, a punctured lung is still better than blood not circulating, which will mean permament brain damage in a few minutes. Things like heamothorax or pneumothorax have to be treated too, but there will be time for that. The goal of Basic Life Support is to keep blood running until more advanced care can be given.
 
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mav_9me

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I am completely ignorant about this topic, so go easy on me. Can't a cracked rib puncture a lung or something if you're applying that much strength?
I took it to mean its actually a myth and virtually impossible to do in reality, but I could be wrong.
No, you can crack ribs doing CPR. He means that in a situation where you have to perform CPR cracking someone's rib would be the least of your concerns.

@maniak cracked ribs can indeed puncture lungs but I think that only happens in high energy impacts, it won't happen during CPR. People crack ribs all the time, other than the pain it's rarely an issue. And even if it did happen during CPR, a punctured lung is still better than blood not circulating, which will mean permament brain damage in a few minutes. Things like heamothorax or pneumothorax have to be treated too, but there will be time for that. The goal of Basic Life Support is to keep blood running until more advanced care can be given.
Exactly as per @Arruda

I have personally cracked many ribs. Especially in elderly it's almost inevitable.

Only thing I'll add is these cracked ribs during CPR can cause pneumothorax absolutely but as already said better alive with pneumothorax and intact brain than alive without pneumo but brains gone.

@maniak the goal of my thread was to try and educate people as best. So ask away anything.
 

Paxi

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Exactly as per @Arruda

I have personally cracked many ribs. Especially in elderly it's almost inevitable.

Only thing I'll add is these cracked ribs during CPR can cause pneumothorax absolutely but as already said better alive with pneumothorax and intact brain than alive without pneumo but brains gone.

@maniak the goal of my thread was to try and educate people as best. So ask away anything.
What are the chances of surviving cardiac arrest for someone whom is out walking on a fairly busy street for example? I have nothing to back this up but it’s pretty much certain death isn’t it?
 

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I took it to mean its actually a myth and virtually impossible to do in reality, but I could be wrong.
Broken ribs are quite common and cartilage and connective tissue will very frequently creak and pop. The one time I've had to do it there was a lot of noise and my mate got the guys vomit in his mouth. CPR isn't as clean as it is with practice dummies sadly.
 

Wibble

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What are the chances of surviving cardiac arrest for someone whom is out walking on a fairly busy street for example? I have nothing to back this up but it’s pretty much certain death isn’t it?
I think I was once told it was about 5% but I recently saw figures of 15% outside hospital and 25% in hospital. I'd guess that the presence of a defib helps.
 

Paxi

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I think I was once told it was about 5% but I recently saw figures of 15% outside hospital and 25% in hospital. I'd guess that the presence of a defib helps.
25% in hospital is very low isn't it? Eriksen is extremely lucky to be alive.
 

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Another ironic song that I've heard is used in CPR is "quit playing games with my heart"
 

fergieisold

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TV chest compressions are almost always totally useless.

They actually need to be pretty brutal. 1/3 of the chest depth (or about 2 inches). Aim for a rate of 100-120 compressions a minute. Slightly morbid choice but we tend to teach 'another one bites the dust' as a good rhythm to guide you. After each compression, you need to release the pressure on the chest, without taking your hands off.

Ideally, the hands should be locked, one over the other and the compressions coming from the palm (or more really the base of the palm) of the lower hand. If you have more than one person who roughly has an idea, its always good to try to swap regularly until proper help arrives as they are exhausting.

So important to learn imo.
After the awful camera shots yesterday I don't think I'd seen 'real' CPR before. Atleast now I know how brutal you have to be to revive someone.
 

FattyFooty

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TV chest compressions are almost always totally useless.

They actually need to be pretty brutal. 1/3 of the chest depth (or about 2 inches). Aim for a rate of 100-120 compressions a minute. Slightly morbid choice but we tend to teach 'another one bites the dust' as a good rhythm to guide you. After each compression, you need to release the pressure on the chest, without taking your hands off.

Ideally, the hands should be locked, one over the other and the compressions coming from the palm (or more really the base of the palm) of the lower hand. If you have more than one person who roughly has an idea, its always good to try to swap regularly until proper help arrives as they are exhausting.

So important to learn imo.
Sorry if I'm stupid, but does this mean that I'm gonna sing that song in my head then push every time I'm done? And in that song is it only that sentence, or with the "and and and" stuff too?
 

Wibble

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Sorry if I'm stupid, but does this mean that I'm gonna sing that song in my head then push every time I'm done? And in that song is it only that sentence, or with the "and and and" stuff too?
You push in time with the beat of the song.
 

Wibble

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25% in hospital is very low isn't it? Eriksen is extremely lucky to be alive.
I'm no medic so I wouldn't assume I know what I'm talking about but I think the main aim of cpr is to maintain some flow of oxygenated blood to the brain until better medical intervention is available, with the added hope of creating or maintaining a shockable beat (defibs can't be used if there isn't a shockable beat). I'd guess that the high failure rate relates to the cause of the heart stopping and if permanent heart damage has occurred and/or if the brain was damaged by a lack of oxygen.
 
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