Lionel Messi’s Obscene Contract

[Ibn Battuta]

Players are the ones creating the added value, we watch them play, we pay for their work. The commercial deals, ticket money and prize money are based on their work and images so they definitely deserve the bigger share of the pie. Would you apply that logic to yourself, should we reduce your wage because what you do is only possible due to what billions of people have done over millennia?
And professional football is the main contributor of football infrastructures whether it is because it financed private facilities or through taxes and mandatory contributions to amateur football when it comes to public infrastructures which is organized at all level FAs and UEFA. Professional football clubs are the ones financing academies and they own those academies too, and when it comes to grassroot football they are large financial contributors through solidarity schemes.

Players create added value, but they do so within a world that enables them to do that. That world was created by football institutions which included entities like UEFA, FIFA, and some of the biggest brands in the world like Madrid and United. Football institutions and the clubs operating within them are a massive reason why the players today are able to pocket these earnings . Without the clubs or the institutions they would not have been given the commercial or sporting platform they currently have.

Any Chelsea fan should know Professional Football is a business, a very lucrative business whose heart is the professional players (20-35 individals)

Of course. But that doesn't mean they should get the majority of the earnings. The heart of Hollywood is the actors, however Hollywood is pocketing the majority of the revenue it is generating (the movie companies etc) I believe. Why? Because without Hollywood these star actors would never get a sniff of the earnings they currently have, no matter how talented they are. The institution that is Hollywood enables them to have an incredible reach. It is exactly the same with football players.

 

[11101]

And yet nobody has thus far been able to quantify the impact in any meaningful way.

Randoms on a football forum? Of course not, but obviously the club has quantified it or they wouldn't have been offering him hundreds of millions over the last decade.

 

[Pickle85]

Randoms on a football forum? Of course not, but obviously the club has quantified it or they wouldn't have been offering him hundreds of millions over the last decade.

Because otherwise they've been so well run, financially...?!

 

[Withnail]

Randoms on a football forum? Of course not, but obviously the club has quantified it or they wouldn't have been offering him hundreds of millions over the last decade.

Given the state of their finances I wouldn't trust them at all in this regard.

 

[UncleBob]

Randoms on a football forum? Of course not, but obviously the club has quantified it or they wouldn't have been offering him hundreds of millions over the last decade.

"They've done the math so it must be right" is a bit of a weird point to make regarding a club that's taken out a massive emergency loan just to be able to pay wages. A club forced to balance the books by bizarre transfers.

It's a bit like boarding a shitty plane in east africa and being told not to worry since it's made in Russia.

 

[11101]

"They've done the math so it must be right" is a bit of a weird point to make regarding a club that's taken out a massive emergency loan just to be able to pay wages. A club forced to balance the books by bizarre transfers.

It's a bit like boarding a shitty plane in east africa and being told not to worry since it's made in Russia.

They might be run by idiots now but they weren't 10 or 15 years ago when they were making him the highest paid player in the world. They know the value he has to them.

I'd also it's not Messi's salary that's the biggest problem. It's the other players they have sitting on massive wages and doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

 

[Daysleeper]

What are people basing their opinion on if no one knows what his salary demands are or what the reason is for not having signed yet?

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[Iker Quesadillas]

Messi was the continuation of a trend Barcelona started a few years before with the arrival of Ronaldinho, having a global superstar to drive commercial activities as well as on pitch performance. Once Ronaldinho left it was on Messi's shoulders to continue the growth and he delivered on that, take either of them out of the club's history and you would see the effect it would have.

Strange how Bayern Munich have had basically the same growth even though they have not had any "global superstars" during the corresponding time period.

 

[UncleBob]

They might be run by idiots now but they weren't 10 or 15 years ago when they were making him the highest paid player in the world. They know the value he has to them.

I'd also it's not Messi's salary that's the biggest problem. It's the other players they have sitting on massive wages and doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

Essentially the only point you seem to have is that since they've done it must therefore be right.

There's a difference between sporting value and financial value. It feels like we're back to the point where people pretended that clubs have financed new players just on shirt sales the first days after announcing the player.

 

[dinostar77]

This situation is fascinating. On one hand Messi is 34 years old and only has a few years left in football. So he wants to be financial renumerated according to his status in world football.

The pandemic has meant la liga have implemented more oversight and rules to ensure the financial liquidity of its clubs.

The financial mismanagement at Barcelona over the last decade has meant that Barcelona are in a terrible financial state.

An out of contract Messi wants to win the CL at least once more but Barcelona are having to make drastic cuts to get his finanical package under la liga's total wages allowance for Barcelona. So effectively Barcelona are being weakened as a club by the need to shed players.

A number of players have taken paycuts to stay at the club.

So if your Messi what do you do? Hold out for your financial package in the knowledge your weakening the squad and therefore reducing your chances of a CL trophy in your twilight years? Or just put the blame on the board and say to yourself 'i only have a few years left, i want to earn as much as i can at Barcelona before i retire'.

Fascinating....

 

[11101]

Strange how Bayern Munich have had basically the same growth even though they have not had any "global superstars" during the corresponding time period.

I didn't say it was the only way to do it, but it was the way Barcelona chose, to use him as the centrepiece of the club.

Madrid do the same with the Galacticos.

 

[Withnail]

I'm calling bullshit on the 12m claim. There's no mention on this anywhere on the internet and it would not be in keeping with anything that's occured thus far.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I didn't say it was the only way to do it, but it was the way Barcelona chose, to use him as the centrepiece of the club.

You have to understand that it's quite the claim to say "all these different clubs did different things and they all just happened to reach the same growth of 34-38m euros per season," especially when we account for the fact that the year-revenue lines are ridiculously straight.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

An out of contract Messi wants to win the CL at least once more...

Hate to say it, but he should give Pep a ring then. They'll accommodate him in any way imaginable - on and off the record.

 

[Zehner]

Two very independent concepts

Political investors are needed to inject cash into the football system


The old, new and future systems are natural monopolies.

The irony is that Football is maybe the most fair business in the world.


I like the concept of fine and compensation. An overly rich club has to financially compensate the competitors. Say that you introduce a cap on transfers: PSG not allowed to spend more than 150 millions. If PSG spends 350 million, the club will be fined 200 million: money redistributed to the 19 other French clubs.

I like the idea. Would you introduce that for salaries as well? Because in the end, only applying it to signing fees might lead to more "transfer fee evasion" by signing players on a free. A club like Bayern for instance has relatively low expenditures for transfer fees but pays very high salaries.

And why exactly are investors needed to inject cash into the football system? Of course investments in general are important but the sport is organically generating so much cash these days that one might think state backed investors aren't really necessary.

The pyramid is getting steeper because you have less sugar daddies than in the past which limits the amount of clubs with financial muscle, for example nowadays you don't have the equivalents of Berlusconi, Tapie, Canal Plus, Moratti or the multitude of owners that Serie A used to have. And only few players have a lucrative brand or a potential to have one, while the top 5-6 players will get big commercial deals, the 25th best player won't and if you reduce his wage in half he has no way to make up for it.

That's a good point. But ultimately the reliance on sugar daddies to level the playing field isn't really a reliable mechanism to ensure competitiveness, isn't it? Also, the wage reduction wouldn't need to tackle the salaries of all the players - especially those who earn a bit less than the stars wouldn't really be affected that much since it's the superstar wages that grow exponentially. And those guys usually have other ways to monetize their brand.

Also, you'd b

That's the problem. The playing field would be leveled so much it's a joke. It's all about who gets lucky with the draft. Granted we dont have draft system in europe but with salary cap teams like United would be hampered more than say... Southampton.

Off course southampton arent going to suddenly challenge for the title but salary cap would made them become more competitive. Since there's only so much united financial muscle can do with salary cap.

Isn't this a question of implementation and adjustment? You could implement it in a way that top clubs could stil profit from their financial muscle but can't just double the wages of players at second or third tier clubs. You could also implement an inflation rate or something like that to keep the cap up to date. My idea wasn't to level the playing field completely but to at least keep things somewhat competitive. Not as flat as the Netherlands but also not as high as the Himalaya

 

[Zlaatan]

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Right, but where are people getting the idea that he's ruining Barca by demanding way too much money? Surely there must be a good source out there that has the exact salary he's getting since some people are so convinced he's a greedy cnut and that he's been holding Barca ransom.

 

[Mb194dc]

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The issue is that La Liga won't allow Barcelona to register him to play, not that he won't sign it. Got to cut €324m off the wage bill plus whatever the other new signing are on first.

He can sign it, but won't be able to actually play for Barcelona until that is sorted.

 

[Daysleeper]

Right, but where are people getting the idea that he's ruining Barca by demanding way too much money? Surely there must be a good source out there that has the exact salary he's getting since some people are so convinced he's a greedy cnut and that he's been holding Barca ransom.

People that hate Messi are using this as an excuse to vent against him. Everything is speculation until he signs the contract.

 

[UncleBob]

The issue is that La Liga won't allow Barcelona to register him to play, not that he won't sign it. Got to cut €324m off the wage bill plus whatever the other new signing are on first.

He can sign it, but won't be able to actually play for Barcelona until that is sorted.

There could be more than one issue...

 

[Withnail]

People that hate Messi are using this as an excuse to vent against him. Everything is speculation until he signs the contract.

Give over. It's not an agenda against Messi. Who actually hates the chap?

Also, I take it your claim he only wants 12m had no substance?

 

[JPRouve]

That's a good point. But ultimately the reliance on sugar daddies to level the playing field isn't really a reliable mechanism to ensure competitiveness, isn't it? Also, the wage reduction wouldn't need to tackle the salaries of all the players - especially those who earn a bit less than the stars wouldn't really be affected that much since it's the superstar wages that grow exponentially. And those guys usually have other ways to monetize their brand.

The playing field isn't supposed to be level, you are not talking about equal entities, they do not have the same size and don't operate in the same markets. And when you put a wage cap, you affect everyone's wage, it's not just the top earners and in reality the top earners will be paid first while the rest will get what remains. And wages don't grow exponentially, it should follow the commercial and TV revenues growth but it didn't, just an example in 05/06 Real Madrid were at the top of Deloitte ranking with a revenue of 292m€, in 18/19 Barcelona were at the top of Deloitte ranking with a revenue of 841m€.

 

[We need an rvn]

I’d love to know how the quantify the revenue Messi generated and how they separate it from their general revenue. How do they know that a big portion of the same money wouldn’t have been picked up by the club in other streams?

who knows. A large part of it should be fairly traceable though - things such as shirt sales with his name on it, sponsors who agree to pay x amount but Messi has to do a certain number of appearances etc.

 

[Daysleeper]

Give over. It's not an agenda against Messi. Who actually hates the chap?

Also, I take it your claim he only wants 12m had no substance?

It’s from a Twitter account that I see was in fact not a good tier so not worth sharing to be honest.

and while Messi’s last contract was for an absurd amount the fact that people are still bashing him when he is waiting and giving time to Barca to sort out the finances shows he’s not just hanging around to bleed them with this next contract either. He could have just as easily signed with psg or city this summer

 

[Sky1981]

Isn't that a good thing for football in the long run? More competitive

Not for me. I'm not rooting for the day sunderland can win the league and relegated the next year becoming the norm. I'm in for the big boys. Glory hunter me.

 

[Sky1981]

I’d love to know how the quantify the revenue Messi generated and how they separate it from their general revenue. How do they know that a big portion of the same money wouldn’t have been picked up by the club in other streams?

With messi adidas offers extra 50m.

And so on and so forth. The guys at the adidas will work out the incentives.

Just plucking imaginary numbers. But when you own messi these things comes into play

Outnof the numbers sponsors would pay more with messi in the team. Without saying, they can extort slightly more

 

[matherto]

They might be run by idiots now but they weren't 10 or 15 years ago when they were making him the highest paid player in the world. They know the value he has to them.

I'd also it's not Messi's salary that's the biggest problem. It's the other players they have sitting on massive wages and doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

Their agents likely negotiated large wages based on Messi’s wedge.

The problem is definitely related to Messi’s wage.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Why would that be ideal? You are just taking money away from players.

People forget we pay to watch players. The best players will command more money. You can watch football for free, down your local park. It's just the quality isn't great and you'll be cold.

 

[Mb194dc]

There could be more than one issue...

That is true, though all seems to point to Messi wanting to renew. Presuming they don't have to sell half the squad to save the €324m in wages anyway. Maybe hes'waiting to see that too.

 

[JPRouve]

People forget we pay to watch players. The best players will command more money. You can watch football for free, down your local park. It's just the quality isn't great and you'll be cold.

I made the same point later. Honestly it's pure entitlement from certain Football followers, they are essentially looking down on millions of football fans that watch lower league Football and enjoy it. The top teams are the least linked to your community, I'm pretty sure that almost every european on this forum has a local team 10 minutes away from them and they can watch their training sessions and games for free.

 

[MackRobinson]

I may be missing something but where's the irony?

You say its remedial logic to take LaPorta's word for it, but it's equal as remedial to not take his word for it b/c of his position. Surely you recognize this.

 

[Pickle85]

You say its remedial logic to take LaPorta's word for it, but it's equal as remedial to not take his word for it b/c of his position. Surely you recognize this.

So you're saying that there's absolutely no reason for him to have any vested interest in this? Surely you realise that's naive?

 

[MackRobinson]

So you're saying that there's absolutely no reason for him to have any vested interest in this? Surely you realise that's naive?

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is you can't call it remedial logic to take his word for it b/c of the position he's in, and then in the next sentence not take his word for it b/c of the position he's in. Both are logical fallacies that make assumptions without analyzing the facts.

 

[Pickle85]

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is you can't call it remedial logic to take his word for it b/c of the position he's in, and then in the next sentence not take his word for it b/c of the position he's in. Both are logical fallacies that make assumptions without analyzing the facts.

Nonsense. I absolutely can not take his word for it because of the position he's in. It has a direct bearing on his impartiality. For the very same reason, it's remedial logic to take his word for it. In fact, not taking his word for it is not necessarily adopting a stance - it's the absence of an action - whereas accepting his word for it is adopting a clear position.

 

[JPRouve]

Nonsense. I absolutely can not take his word for it because of the position he's in. It has a direct bearing on his impartiality. For the very same reason, it's remedial logic to take his word for it. In fact, not taking his word for it is not necessarily adopting a stance - it's the absence of an action - whereas accepting his word for it is adopting a clear position.

It's not his word, he repeated what Marc Ciria said earlier this year. One may question the analysis but it's not Laporta's words.

 

[MackRobinson]

Nonsense. I absolutely can not take his word for it because of the position he's in. It has a direct bearing on his impartiality. For the very same reason, it's remedial logic to take his word for it. In fact, not taking his word for it is not necessarily adopting a stance - it's the absence of an action - whereas accepting his word for it is adopting a clear position.

The bolded is an assumption made by you, which is my point. One can argue as the chief executive of the company he is more incentivized to reduce the costs of labor and therefore take an opposite position, but again this is nothing but an opinion not rooted in facts just like yours.

The point: you are countering an assumption with another assumption.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

If the numbers that were leaked last year (or was it earlier this year - I don't remember) are anywhere near accurate, Messi would be taking one hell of a cut at 12m p/y (see the discussion above). As in, if he actually doesn't demand more than 12m...he IS a saint of some kind.

 

[Ecstatic]

I like the idea. Would you introduce that for salaries as well? Because in the end, only applying it to signing fees might lead to more "transfer fee evasion" by signing players on a free. A club like Bayern for instance has relatively low expenditures for transfer fees but pays very high salaries.

And why exactly are investors needed to inject cash into the football system? Of course investments in general are important but the sport is organically generating so much cash these days that one might think state backed investors aren't really necessary.

Yes for salaries! And yes to punish Bayern ahah ans reduce inequalities

Football makes money of course but if you look at the French clubs, most of them struggle financially so if psg is fined and football players with low wages get an increase, that would be a smart idea.

In fact, the solution is not the cap on salaries but having a mechanism that reduces inequalities.

Qatar makes the French league less boring and more competitive etc.

State-backed investors are not necessary but during covid the uefa and domestic leagues are happy to see them animate the business

 

[Pickle85]

The bolded is an assumption made by you, which is my point. One can argue as the chief executive of the company he is more incentivized to reduce the costs of labor and therefore take an opposite position, but again this is nothing but an opinion not rooted in facts just like yours.

The point: you are countering an assumption with another assumption.

So you're saying I can't argue that his opinion is remedial because it's based on an assumption, because mine is also based on an assumption? Surely that means that we should never argue/discuss unless we know the facts so we may as well go home? Despite the fact that, as a few posters have noted, he has 'skin in the game' so to speak. I feel like the 'logical fallacy' thing is a bit of a straw man here. I'm (obviously!) no logician but I also think that it's more rational to be suspicious of Laporta's motives than to accept them unquestioningly.

It's not his word, he repeated what Marc Ciria said earlier this year. One may question the analysis but it's not Laporta's words.

Fair enough, I'm questioning Laporta's use of them then and it's integrity.

 

[Withnail]

The bolded is an assumption made by you, which is my point. One can argue as the chief executive of the company he is more incentivized to reduce the costs of labor and therefore take an opposite position, but again this is nothing but an opinion not rooted in facts just like yours.

The point: you are countering an assumption with another assumption.

People are sceptical because of the perceived conflict of interest. That is completely different to making assumptions. Rather it is a healthy attitude towards information, as of yet unproven.

 

[Pickle85]

People are sceptical because of the perceived conflict of interest. That is completely different to making assumptions. Rather it is a healthy attitude towards information, as of yet unproven.

This is what I was trying to drive at, but tying myself up in knots. Thanks!