Pogba has slowly been replaced in our set up. We've seen 3 different forms of Pogba at the club. The one that plays at the free role , the one that plays at left midfield and the one that plays at the double pivot. Free role Pogba has already been replaced by Bruno, left midfield playmaking Pogba did not play frequently can be replaced by Sancho. Double pivot Pogba with defensive duties is now who I am saying should be replaced. At that position Pogbas skillset is watered down and isn't as hard to replace as when he's higher up the pitch. At that position he can also be a defensive liability. Ole himself started playing McFred and moved Pogba away from there. If your position is being taking by Mctominay then surely you're not that irreplaceable.I don't have to really, not to be ignorant of the conversation, just any argument that involves getting rid of Pogba is tiresome. We should be trying absolutely everything we can to retain our best players and I believe that's exactly what Ole and and the board are trying to do, keep him. Why?
Well because he's one of the very best midfielders in the world. In his absence we will have an ancient Matic and McFred - which should frankly frighten you. But many here seemingly can't wait for us to be so one dimensional and limited in midfield.
Replacing Pogba we will not do. He is a unique player, in style, strength and ability, supremely talented, those players in midfield don't really exist in the market right now and if they do they cost more than what we paid for him.
Get a player 'that fit's us better as a team' - what does that even mean? All it means is that we DON'T HAVE A DM. It's a problem we will still have after we pack Pogba's luggage and let him go.
What any manager/DOF would want to do in our situation is build on what we have, get a player who actually plays in the DM role (we only have Matic) partner Pogba with them or indeed switch to a midfield three.
Any variation of our midfield without Pogba is more limited. Anybody here who thinks Pogba is totally incapable of being placed in a starting 11 because he loses the ball now and again is a mentalist in my book.
Let's make a list of all the times he's lost the ball that directly led to a goal against us, then compare that to all the assists and key passes forward he plays. I reckon it would make mugs of many here. No doubt he will go somewhere else and prove what he can do on the pitch just like he's done at Juve and for France, in teams willing to build a side that functions and covers for players weaknesses. Apparently that's beneath United.
I don't understand what you mean by the bolded part, but I'm posting on the assumption that we would bring in Camavinga to pair with Fred. You already think it is a bizarre theory, so trying to explain this would be a bit awkward. I'd like to provide some data, but I don't see this as something that someone would make a data for.Why would the partnership be more unbalance than the common two right footers?
Do you have any data on this at all, seems like a bizarre theory to me. Also I don't get your point on Fred? He's a left footer and we have McT who plays on the right, why wouldn't he be on the left? We don't have anyone that would sit behind them, irrelevant to what foot players use.
That’s a wicked team, I worry defensively but our transitions and passing would be a lot better surely?Camavinga has better passing with his eyes closed than Fred and McTominay combined. Their limitations on the ball hamper us significantly.
I approve of any player being able to play CDM that can also pass in a two man midfield.
Rashford Cavani Sancho2 players off a decent 11. Spend the money and get it done. 50m Varane and 30m Camavinga are both no brainers. Get them in before pre season.
Fernandes
Camavinga Pogba
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
Camavinga has better passing with his eyes closed than Fred and McTominay combined. Their limitations on the ball hamper us significantly.
I approve of any player being able to play CDM that can also pass in a two man midfield.
Rashford Cavani Sancho2 players off a decent 11. Spend the money and get it done. 50m Varane and 30m Camavinga are both no brainers. Get them in before pre season.
Fernandes
Camavinga Pogba
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
That's why Scholes and Keane were so shit together then I guess.
Two lefties.I guess we should have drop Keane or Scholes back then since both right footed
Here's the thing people are overlooking: even if it's true that Pogba intends to leave, what if United get Camavinga and possibly Varane as well as Sancho, and Pogba's role shifts further forward, left side, which he prefers? Now imagine United clicking and being successful next season. What few people are factoring in is that Pogba might well change his mind if he's an integral part of a club whose fortunes are on the rise, which is very possible if we acquire these new players to add to what is already a formidable squad.Pogba isn't going to sign a new contract and has clearly wanted to leave for a long time. Everyone at the club clearly wants him to sign a new deal, as is obvious by all the reports of us constantly trying to get him to renew. Why would he now sign a contract extension when he's so close to being able to leave? You just want to avoid all logic though. The reality is we can keep him for 1 more season but he will leave for free in the summer. He will need to be replaced either this season or the following season. The decision needs to be made whether getting £45-50m for him this season is actually worth not having him for the rest of the season. I think you can make the argument that it's best to just keep him due to the talent he can bring to us, but you need to stop deluding yourself into thinking Pogba renewing is an option.
Right, so because it's 2 lefties it's a problem, 2 righties is perfectly fine.Two lefties.
Thanks for highlighting this info.A detailed dive into his career and playing style so far
Think it could be more like this:Camavinga has better passing with his eyes closed than Fred and McTominay combined. Their limitations on the ball hamper us significantly.
I approve of any player being able to play CDM that can also pass in a two man midfield.
Rashford Cavani Sancho2 players off a decent 11. Spend the money and get it done. 50m Varane and 30m Camavinga are both no brainers. Get them in before pre season.
Fernandes
Camavinga Pogba
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
He was. I voiced this same thing multiple times. Only Shaw was more consistent than him last seasonPogba was clearly our best player from the time he got healthy about halfway through the season to the end (besides Shaw ofc).
We'd be a better team if we got rid of one of the world's best midfielders? Go and lie down, you can't be feeling well
The one thing we can agree to disagree on is that a DM is all we need to be able to have Pogba in our team. The only way Pogba works in our team is with a CDM AND a player like Fred or Camavinga willing to press, tackle and hustle.Let’s agree to disagree. The balance you say the poster was searching for includes a DM, which is what we require right now and after Pogba’s departure regardless.
Which is what prompted my response, I would love us to sign Camavinga but we still need a DM. It’s also the obvious thing that any side needs to do to get the best of Pogba.
It makes no sense to want rid of one of Europe’s best midfielders so we can search for the same balance we need now to accommodate him. The net result will mean we are worse off.
But let’s leave if there and climb aboard the Camavinga train eh.
Maybe he will turn into the next Kante and we can let MCFred bomb on and do some real damage.
They require different types of DM's though.Let’s agree to disagree. The balance you say the poster was searching for includes a DM, which is what we require right now and after Pogba’s departure regardless.
Which is what prompted my response, I would love us to sign Camavinga but we still need a DM. It’s also the obvious thing that any side needs to do to get the best of Pogba.
It makes no sense to want rid of one of Europe’s best midfielders so we can search for the same balance we need now to accommodate him. The net result will mean we are worse off.
Ability wise Pogba is out best player no doubt, and one of top 10 players in the world maybe. His ceiling is definitely much higher than that of Bruno.Pogba has slowly been replaced in our set up. We've seen 3 different forms of Pogba at the club. The one that plays at the free role , the one that plays at left midfield and the one that plays at the double pivot. Free role Pogba has already been replaced by Bruno, left midfield playmaking Pogba did not play frequently can be replaced by Sancho. Double pivot Pogba with defensive duties is now who I am saying should be replaced. At that position Pogbas skillset is watered down and isn't as hard to replace as when he's higher up the pitch. At that position he can also be a defensive liability. Ole himself started playing McFred and moved Pogba away from there. If your position is being taking by Mctominay then surely you're not that irreplaceable.
You're saying we need a DM to get the best out of Pogba but my post implied and what I think is if Pogba stays, we wouldnt get the best of him because we wouldnt get a DM unless we sell him.
To put it this way. Do you think a midfield of DM- Fred/Camavinga - Bruno would be more effective next season both defensively and offensively compared to a midfield of Pogba - Fred/Camavinga - Bruno,?
I'm surprised at how short minded the idea is that Camavinga wouldn't be a starter. Fred / Mctomminay are good to a point as their ceiling for me at least is around the top 8. In order to begin to win competitions they are the next in line to be rotated in the squad for the option of better quality.Camavinga has better passing with his eyes closed than Fred and McTominay combined. Their limitations on the ball hamper us significantly.
I approve of any player being able to play CDM that can also pass in a two man midfield.
Rashford Cavani Sancho2 players off a decent 11. Spend the money and get it done. 50m Varane and 30m Camavinga are both no brainers. Get them in before pre season.
Fernandes
Camavinga Pogba
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
I said it could be a problem, I didn't type anything about 2 righties being perfectly fine, and I was talking about a transfer we are interested in making, not about two players that played years ago.Right, so because it's 2 lefties it's a problem, 2 righties is perfectly fine.
That's some next level nonsense.
I agree. You only have to see how the French are talking about his future. They already know what he will become.I'm surprised at how short minded the idea is that Camavinga wouldn't be a starter. Fred / Mctomminay are good to a point as their ceiling for me at least is around the top 8. In order to begin to win competitions they are the next in line to be rotated in the squad for the option of better quality.
There would be games for Matic, Fred and McTominay. But I don't see any of them as first 11 players against an unnamed opponent.That’s a wicked team, I worry defensively but our transitions and passing would be a lot better surely?
Clubs don't have moneyCan't imagine us having a free run at Sancho, Varane and Camavinga. Seems too good to be true.
Did you tell that to Sir Alex when he sold Veron?We'd be a better team if we got rid of one of the world's best midfielders? Go and lie down, you can't be feeling well
Well put!!! Some ridiculous comments disengaged from reality. Welcome to Redcafe twilight zone!The way people talk about Pogba you'd think he's Djemba-Djemba I swear. I geniunely think many vocal supporters just watch the post match analysis and look on twitter to form their opinions, because he was clearly our best player from the time he got healthy about halfway through the season to the end (besides Shaw ofc). Any midfield we've played without him has been considerably poorer, and turns us into a grifter side that can't keep the ball or cut through teams without banging long balls or relying on Bruno to do everything.
??Think it could be more like this:
Cavani
Fernandes Sancho
Saul Pogba Camavinga
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
Between Veron, Beckham, Ruud and Keane, I get the impression that most posters on here would have been calling for Ferguson's head on the regular.Did you tell that to Sir Alex when he sold Veron?
Agreed. He's probably given away more penalties than defensive lapses have cost us.I don't have to really, not to be ignorant of the conversation, just any argument that involves getting rid of Pogba is tiresome. We should be trying absolutely everything we can to retain our best players and I believe that's exactly what Ole and and the board are trying to do, keep him. Why?
Well because he's one of the very best midfielders in the world. In his absence we will have an ancient Matic and McFred - which should frankly frighten you. But many here seemingly can't wait for us to be so one dimensional and limited in midfield.
Replacing Pogba we will not do. He is a unique player, in style, strength and ability, supremely talented, those players in midfield don't really exist in the market right now and if they do they cost more than what we paid for him.
Get a player 'that fit's us better as a team' - what does that even mean? All it means is that we DON'T HAVE A DM. It's a problem we will still have after we pack Pogba's luggage and let him go.
What any manager/DOF would want to do in our situation is build on what we have, get a player who actually plays in the DM role (we only have Matic) partner Pogba with them or indeed switch to a midfield three.
Any variation of our midfield without Pogba is more limited. Anybody here who thinks Pogba is totally incapable of being placed in a starting 11 because he loses the ball now and again is a mentalist in my book.
Let's make a list of all the times he's lost the ball that directly led to a goal against us, then compare that to all the assists and key passes forward he plays. I reckon it would make mugs of many here. No doubt he will go somewhere else and prove what he can do on the pitch just like he's done at Juve and for France, in teams willing to build a side that functions and covers for players weaknesses. Apparently that's beneath United.
Any competent athletic DM becuase, ya know, we don’t have one. Which was kinda my point, but it’s lost here.Who is this magical DM you would have us sign that will unleash the best European midfielder vs the Pogba we have got for the last 3 seasons ?
Defensively yes, offensively no. I don’t think we are all that defensively woeful at the moment with Pogba in the team though, which sort of guides my point.To put it this way. Do you think a midfield of DM- Fred/Camavinga - Bruno would be more effective next season both defensively and offensively compared to a midfield of Pogba - Fred/Camavinga - Bruno,?
I am dreaming about it for weeks now, even before serious links popped up to Camavinga. I knew we had some interest and with him not signing an extension and us needing a midfielder, i dared to dream. Would be the best summer since forever.good god, could you actually imagine a summer of Sancho, Varane and Camavinga. Don't you play with my feelings like that
Wait until you see who we sign with the Pogba + Martial + Lingard + Bailly money.good god, could you actually imagine a summer of Sancho, Varane and Camavinga. Don't you play with my feelings like that
The way people talk about Pogba you'd think he's Djemba-Djemba I swear. I geniunely think many vocal supporters just watch the post match analysis and look on twitter to form their opinions, because he was clearly our best player from the time he got healthy about halfway through the season to the end (besides Shaw ofc). Any midfield we've played without him has been considerably poorer, and turns us into a grifter side that can't keep the ball or cut through teams without banging long balls or relying on Bruno to do everything.
I did actually. Got him on speed dialDid you tell that to Sir Alex when he sold Veron?