England fans, what is wrong with England fans?

[SER19]

Football fans of every nation have a cohort of scum. From violent and racist Italian groups to homophobic Russians, so there's no suggestion that its a fully unique problem.

But in a tournament that went so well for England, the image of their fans - unfairly to the decent - is once again very unsavoury.

This notion is so often met with 'anti England' accusations, but how many European city centres have we seen ruined by the same sort of rage fuelled thuggery. Yesterday it was Londons turn and the amount of footage really suggests were not talking about a small minority. There seems to be some sort of collective rage or nationalism that takes hold. Trafalgar square and Leicester Square in bits, cars being broken into, buses being climbed on, several videos of cocaine use being celebrated, bottles being thrown for absolutely no reason - the attempted storming of the stadium- combined with the anthem booing, knee booing, laser pointing, German girl celebrating, online racist abuse of own players... It goes on.

Like anything, and like many i know, if you support England with joy and your experiences are likely to be with decent civilised fans, this might feel like a personal and unfair attack but it's not aimed at you. What can England do to try shed its reputation, almost globally of having a detestable fan base?

 

[André Dominguez]

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HEre they are waiting, the brittish fans.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Idiots exist in every country. Why is there a minority of thugs in (insert your country here @SER19 )? It's a ridiculous oversimplification to generalise an entire country, or else we'd say all Russians are racist, all Portuguese are corrupt etc etc. Do you judge Italy by its Ultra's.

 

[Wayne's World]

Did you see what happened before the game?

There's your answer

 

[SER19]

Idiots exist in every country. Why is there a minority of thugs in (insert your country here @SER19 )? It's a ridiculous oversimplification to generalise an entire country, or else we'd say all Russians are racist, all Portuguese are corrupt etc etc. Do you judge Italy by its Ultra's.

Ya, i addressed the other nations in the OP but you've ignored that. 'Football fans of every nation have a cohort of scum. From violent and racist Italian groups to homophobic Russians, so there's no suggestion that its a fully unique problem'

What was going on in London yesterday pre match was very weird and like it or not is being broadcast as so globally. It was pure mob mentality that seems to infect further than the expected cohort of scum

 

[GazTheLegend]

Ya, i addressed the other nations in the OP but you've ignored that. Football fans of every nation have a cohort of scum. 'From violent and racist Italian groups to homophobic Russians, so there's no suggestion that its a fully unique problem'

What was going on in London yesterday pre match was very weird and like it or not is being broadcast as so globally. It was pure mob mentality that seems to infect further than the expected cohort of scum

I'd think it's obvious. Frustrations over covid and 50 years since a major final, and the game being hosted at 8pm on a Sunday meant a lot of fans had a chance to drink all day. Hopefully there were no deaths, but if you have ever been in a group of lads you'd understand. It's a different culture/mindset to handle and all you can do is mitigate the damage.

 

[yipthatman]

I genuinely think we gave the Italians something extra by booing their National anthem. It really is counterproductive (as well as embarrassing and unsporting). Some players thrive on the hate because they use it to take themselves up a level mentally.

 

[afrocentricity]

What happened?

 

[Zlatan 7]

I'd think it's obvious. Frustrations over covid and 50 years since a major final, and the game being hosted at 8pm on a Sunday meant a lot of fans had a chance to drink all day. Hopefully there were no deaths, but if you have ever been in a group of lads you'd understand. It's a different culture/mindset to handle and all you can do is mitigate the damage.

Other countries have Covid, other countries have alcohol and other countries have reached finals. Anything else?

It was pretty bizarre to see what was going on yesterday in all honesty. can’t believe the excuses people are making for it

 

[Acrobat7]

I'd think it's obvious. Frustrations over covid and 50 years since a major final, and the game being hosted at 8pm on a Sunday meant a lot of fans had a chance to drink all day. Hopefully there were no deaths, but if you have ever been in a group of lads you'd understand. It's a different culture/mindset to handle and all you can do is mitigate the damage.

That is a bad excuse for shit behaviour.

 

[SeanyC]

Whatever it is about Football it just brings out the thuggery nationalist mentally. It’s pathetic! Social media bosses really need to do something but it seems to me they can’t or won’t. Harder consequences need to be made law and forced, losing your own job even would be a way to start.

 

[SER19]

What happened?

I mentioned some of that in OP but in general just a lot of violence, thuggery, vandalism etc. Some really sickening scenes of England fan on England fan violence. Just such a nasty undercurrent to what was a big day

 

[Sky1981]

Football fans of every nation have a cohort of scum. From violent and racist Italian groups to homophobic Russians, so there's no suggestion that its a fully unique problem.

But in a tournament that went so well for England, the image of their fans - unfairly to the decent - is once again very unsavoury.

This notion is so often met with 'anti England' accusations, but how many European city centres have we seen ruined by the same sort of rage fuelled thuggery. Yesterday it was Londons turn and the amount of footage really suggests were not talking about a small minority. There seems to be some sort of collective rage or nationalism that takes hold. Trafalgar square and Leicester Square in bits, cars being broken into, buses being climbed on, several videos of cocaine use being celebrated, bottles being thrown for absolutely no reason - the attempted storming of the stadium- combined with the anthem booing, knee booing, laser pointing, German girl celebrating, online racist abuse of own players... It goes on.

Like anything, and like many i know, if you support England with joy and your experiences are likely to be with decent civilised fans, this might feel like a personal and unfair attack but it's not aimed at you. What can England do to try shed its reputation, almost globally of having a detestable fan base?

When you see something, call it as it is.

Stop trying to hide between "it's only banter, it's a joke, it's a meme, it's just minority"

The video shows that it's not a minority, a minority is a group of trouble maker, probably numbered 10-15 at most. What I'm seeing is not a minority, it's a whole huge bunch of 100-1000s people clumped together and sanctioned (at least they're not trying to stop this brutality) the atrocities, fighting, punching, even kicking heads, and that's without provocation of any sort, done against fellow countrymen.

When we talk about Russian Ultras, we acknowledge they're the bad guys. You do not, you play victim as if your "fans" are being unfairly labelled. They are being fairly labelled, those videos aren't hoax or edited, that's your fans on display. Own it, vilify and rectify them. Don't defend them.

 

[Bebestation]

Football has never been a gentleman’s sport.

In particular in the English culture, the lower class cohort value football as their main entertainment- a lower class that has alcohol and racism in their system.

You can see the difference between Football supporters and Rugby or Cricket.

 

[Trequarista10]

It's the lower class sport in England, is basically what it boils down to IMO.

If you play 5/7 a side in England then you know there will be that one team in every league who act like this. Snarling, threatening, it's their one outlet of the week and they're up for a fight. They're gonna take out all their frustration and anger on the long haired hippy wearing a retro shirt from some obscure foreign football team who nutmegs them.

I'll throw the question back at you. Why is this behaviour less common amongst other nations (or is it?). Are the chavs in other nations not into football, or are there less chavs, or are measures taken to prevent this behaviour, or is it equally as common but less widely reported and shared?

 

[SER19]

When you see something, call it as it is.

Stop trying to hide between "it's only banter, it's a joke, it's a meme, it's just minority"

The video shows that it's not a minority, a minority is a group of trouble maker, probably numbered 10-15 at most. What I'm seeing is not a minority, it's a whole huge bunch of 100-1000s people clumped together and sanctioned (at least they're not trying to stop this brutality) the atrocities, fighting, punching, even kicking heads, and that's without provocation of any sort, done against fellow countrymen.

When we talk about Russian Ultras, we acknowledge they're the bad guys. You do not, you play victim as if your "fans" are being unfairly labelled. They are being fairly labelled, those videos aren't hoax or edited, that's your fans on display. Own it, vilify and rectify them. Don't defend them.

Im not English, but I agree with the you here. It feels as if a lot of English are so defensive about perceived 'anti English' sentiment that they're prepared to excuse or rationalise a huge amount of really dreadful behaviour that is becoming mainstream again

 

[Lay]

England football fans are the worst.

 

[SER19]

It's the lower class sport in England, is basically what it boils down to IMO.

If you play 5/7 a side in England then you know there will be that one team in every league who act like this. Snarling, threatening, it's their one outlet of the week and they're up for a fight. They're gonna take out all their frustration and anger on the long haired hippy wearing a retro shirt from some obscure foreign football team who nutmegs them.

I'll throw the question back at you. Why is this behaviour less common amongst other nations (or is it?). Are the chavs in other nations not into football, or are there less chavs, or are measures taken to prevent this behaviour, or is it equally as common but less widely reported and shared?

I honestly can't speak to most nations. Ive alluded to some of the nasty stuff we know about other nations in OP, but being Irish i can say with almost certainty, that had that been in Ireland there'd undoubtedly have been pockets of drunken aggro, but almost a zero percent chance of the scale of what we saw yesterday. The idea of Irish fans kicking fellow supporters in the head inside the Aviva on a big day is unimaginable really. As is much of the stuff I mentioned in OP

 

[Sky1981]

England football fans are the worst.

Between Ultras, russian, turkish, etc vs England fans. As a neutral they'd the be the last bunch of fans I want to cross my path with.

WIth others you can safely assume they will leave you alone if you're neutral. With England? hell they'd fight a lamp post if they can.

 

[Stacks]

England football fans are the worst.

the worst?

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/v...dies-by-suicide-after-suffering-racist.877013

 

[do.ob]

Maybe my memory is failing me, but while it's somewhat common to see like the one group of hooligans acting up during these games, I can't recall every seeing nearly as many incidences as yesterday. I think I saw at least five different brawls around the stadium, several fist fights during public viewing events, a couple of squares in chaos and I didn't even have to dig through the internet to find them.

 

[Vidyoyo]

My unsubstantiated theory - English people are taught to repress emotions from an early age and because they don't properly understand how to handle said emotions they act in irrational ways when they experience large surges of them, often manifesting into external acts of aggression.

That said, I don't think English people are unique in this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot

 

[Siorac]

I'm from a country that has serious struggles with alcoholism on a societal level - but even so, I find British drinking culture a little scary. My admittedly anecdotal and non-representative experience is that Brits are far more likely to lose control than people of just about any other nation, and the whole experience can be very unsettling for the uninitiated, even without bringing football and its raw emotions into it.

 

[The Boy]

When you see something, call it as it is.

I think most English people do, violence, racism hoolaganism are unacceptable

Stop trying to hide between "it's only banter, it's a joke, it's a meme, it's just minority"

It's not banter, noone is saying that, it's not a joke no one is saying that, we say that about the phrase and song "it's coming home" not about violence the two are very different. It is however a minority, that's not excusing it or condoning it, it's just not the majority of football fans acting like this.

The video shows that it's not a minority, a minority is a group of trouble maker, probably numbered 10-15 at most. What I'm seeing is not a minority, it's a whole huge bunch of 100-1000s people clumped together and sanctioned (at least they're not trying to stop this brutality) the atrocities, fighting, punching, even kicking heads, and that's without provocation of any sort, done against fellow countrymen.

As I just said it can be a 100 or a 100 people, but it is a minority, a minority of morons and a minority which make most English people embarrassed and one we wish didn't exist but it's there.

When we talk about Russian Ultras, we acknowledge they're the bad guys. You do not, you play victim as if your "fans" are being unfairly labelled. They are being fairly labelled, those videos aren't hoax or edited, that's your fans on display. Own it, vilify and rectify them. Don't defend them.

Everyone acknowledges that there are bad guys who support England, the videos I've seen are not hoaxes. But it is not all England fans, it is some and yes they're horrendous, and though I wish they were not present in England they are. I imagine lots of Russians would prefer the Russian Ultras were not there, lots of Italians would like the open racists amongst their fans were not there etc etc

No one defends them and actually a lot has been done to try and reduce football violence in this country. I am very aware that England doesn't necessarily cover itself in glory on internationally, but if I was was to post in this way about other countries in teh way many are posting about England now I would be vilified on this forum and rightly so.

Just like every other country in the world, not all English people are the same and like every other country in the world, the vast majority are kind decent people.

 

[clarkydaz]

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HEre they are waiting, the brittish fans.

A few of theose main guys look around 50 yrs old, slugging young lads running past

 

[Fortitude]

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HEre they are waiting, the brittish fans.

Can someone explain what is happening in this footage? At first, I thought it was purely racial, but then, these morons are attacking white people as well as leaving the non-white stewards alone.

What's going on?

 

[pascell]

They can't handle their beer, likely were hooligans back in the day and purposefully look for fights.

Probably dole dosssers who are sat in their local wetherspoons as we speak

 

[SuperiorXI]

Don't generalise. These are scumbags but the majority of fans are well behaved.

 

[rimzy]

It’s fecking disgusting behaviour all round.

I remember going down my local pub for the opening game VS Croatia and it was perhaps half full, brilliant atmosphere.

I was in the same pub last night and it was full of morons, coming out of the woodwork for the game, people openly being racist. Made me feel gross.

It’s not just England games, my local side (Bristol City) have the same problem when they play the “big” games VS Leeds, Cardiff etc, these vermin come out the woodwork and cause trouble.

These scum will be nowhere near the WC qualifiers come October. More bans needed.

 

[Trequarista10]

Can someone explain what is happening in this footage? At first, I thought it was purely racial, but then, these morons are attacking white people as well as leaving the non-white stewards alone.

What's going on?

People were breaking past security to get into the stadium without tickets. A few wannabe heroes decided it was their duty to stop them/kick the shit out of them.

 

[Offside]

Combination of being the same as football hooligans on the continent who have nothing else in their lives aside from kicking off at the football, alongside the attitude similar to the average American feckwit that they’re the greatest nation in the world. Makes for a real unsavoury character.

 

[Fortitude]

People were breaking past security to get into the stadium without tickets. A few wannabe heroes decided it was their duty to stop them/kick the shit out of them.

Not the answer I was expecting to read! But OK, in these topsy-turvy times, anything is possible!

Just mental.

 

[JJ12]

There’s some seriously disturbing videos circulating, what is wrong with people.

 

[Zen86]

Because all English people are evil nationalist imperialists. That’s obviously the answer you want.

 

[predator]

There are cnuts everywhere

 

[JakeTheRed]

There are cnuts everywhere

Pretty much this, topped with alcohol, always a recipe for disaster. Some people are genuinely just full of anger and have no respect for other people or cultures. Very embarrassing from some of the England fans yesterday, putting us on the same level as the racist, homophobic Russian fans.

 

[JakeTheRed]

Pretty much this, topped with alcohol, always a recipe for disaster. Some people are genuinely just full of anger and have no respect for other people or cultures. Very embarrassing from some of the England fans yesterday, putting us on the same level as the racist, homophobic Russian fans.

 

[Swearing Budgie]

It's the lower class sport in England, is basically what it boils down to IMO.

If you play 5/7 a side in England then you know there will be that one team in every league who act like this. Snarling, threatening, it's their one outlet of the week and they're up for a fight. They're gonna take out all their frustration and anger on the long haired hippy wearing a retro shirt from some obscure foreign football team who nutmegs them.

I'll throw the question back at you. Why is this behaviour less common amongst other nations (or is it?). Are the chavs in other nations not into football, or are there less chavs, or are measures taken to prevent this behaviour, or is it equally as common but less widely reported and shared?

This is spot on

 

[AdamColeBebe]

I'd think it's obvious. Frustrations over covid and 50 years since a major final, and the game being hosted at 8pm on a Sunday meant a lot of fans had a chance to drink all day. Hopefully there were no deaths, but if you have ever been in a group of lads you'd understand. It's a different culture/mindset to handle and all you can do is mitigate the damage.

Don't be ridiculous. There is no justifiable reason for this behaviour. None. For Christ's sake, these are grown, responsible, adult men choosing to do this. They are not children, so stop making excuses for them like they are. They chose to be violent knowing full well this is how they get when they drink.

 

[Buster15]

Other countries have Covid, other countries have alcohol and other countries have reached finals. Anything else?

It was pretty bizarre to see what was going on yesterday in all honesty. can’t believe the excuses people are making for it

You are right. There really are no excuses for some of the unacceptable behaviour. And it is no consolation to say that it was the minority. It always is.
In my view, it is symptomatic of the general lowering of standards in this country and lack of recriminations. They do it as part of 'pack behaviour'.
My question was whether there was strong enough police presence and adequate marshalling in and around the stadium.

It is a big shame that yet again this is the topic of discussion.