Fans believed they are entitled to win I guess. Throw in a major final in half a century, add alcohol, lots of hate and thumping realization. Thats your answer
England fans, what is wrong with England fans?
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Ah, they must be so proud. Absolute scum.
If this is outside of football then I’d agree with you, but if we’re talking about football supporters I’d disagree, The Welsh Northern Irish and Scottish supporters were awarded in Euro 2016 for their supporters conduct through the tournament (Icelandic supporters too) and English supporters caused a lot of grief that tournament too (not the majority of course). I’ve gone to a lot of Welsh games and it hasn’t got that hardcore wanker element that a section of the hardcore English national supporters team has where aggression comes into play.
The domestic club supporters are different too, I’ve had very little problems when English club supporters have come down to Swansea, it’s never kicked off. There is a small element to the travelling English support who ruin it for the others.
definitely not and it looks to be going back to the days where it’s not safe to take kids to football matches, which is really sad imo. fecking louts
Remember when Rangers lost UEFA Cup final in Manchester? How lovely those fans treated the host city.
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Aren't Rangers fans and England fans the same thing?
Stopped us having our parade after winning the league and CL.
Yep. Much of this is forgotten by some here oddly enough.
OP @SER19 are you really asking this question? I mean what do you expect us to say?
The Caf has gone to shit over the past few days it really has.
The Caf has gone to shit over the past few days it really has.
Yeah, as you said, since others eat shite then you can eat shite, right? Let take it and improve yourself man, instead of telling everyone else also dose that.
Why on earth do you see my post as trying to "justify" the fans behaviour? I am trying to EXPLAIN it. You're all puzzled as to the "why". I'm trying to tell you "why". "Because they are stupid idiots" (which they are) isn't good enough an answer for me - it's an easy thing to sit here and say they're idiots though, it's not so easy to dissect the behaviour into WHY.
If you want to get complicated and actually really discuss the rationale these people might have, you have to go into serious psychometric analysis and profiling. My personal opinion (having read up on Nietzschian philosophy - specifically what happens in a vacuum without religion, his "god is dead" prediction of the idealogical wars that killed MILLIONS OF PEOPLE In the 20th century) and considering is that since 1 in 6 people has an i.q. of under 95, it's natural that they would have some sort of idealogical possession in the absence of religion - that football has taken that place, and that a hierarchy among football fans happens and these people try to be the "best" England fan, egged on by their friends, and get status from being the "best" (most idiotic) fan whereas in their lives they probably have shit jobs and little else to guide them in the absence of any idealogical belief. That gives rise to all this nonsense we see. Now how do you go about fixing that? You fix society and that culture. But you don't take football away from them because there are some FAR WORSE idealogical beliefs and status obtainment that can be found in gang culture and violence. (Knife crime and teardrop tattoos for instance)
Maybe other countries cultures are less dominated by football than ours, so these guys find status elsewhere. But that's my 2c, not that it helps anything.
This is such a hilariously bad post. "idiots are in every country" so you insinuate that it's not abnormal.
The question isn't this, but why England have so many fecking idiots. I was at the game yesterday and I saw bottles going in the air, glass ones, since 3pm all around Wembley Park. There was racism, there was violence and there was blood.
Saying "oh every country has a bit of that" is such a frustrating cop out when we have too many idiotic fecking hooligan shits, and then threads here that try and defend Englands perception on top. So many English fans are neck deep sensitive that they won't accept reality that we have way too many cnut fans.
It isnt just England football fans. It is deep rooted in society, football just gives them a platform.
It's shocking that not everybody on this here Irish website for a team with a global following is English or wanting England to do well. Shocking I say.
Is this thread about wanting England to do well? You've lost me.
Its a fair topic. I've friends in many parts of the world and even without that insight a look around news on Internet will show that English fans are being presented once again as mindless thugs and the very worst of sports fandom. Since we all know so many people who don't fit that description it's fair to wonder what can be done and why English fans seem to have a particular skill at disgusting sports fans globally
Because sadly over half our country voted for Brexit and want to bring the 80s back so we've got a few more tommy Robinsons then we'd like to admit.
It's a fair topic yes but what kind of answer are you expecting to the ridiculous question you ask?
Just feels like you're being disingenuous and trying to wind people up or bait them. And as per the usual have waded in.
Can't say I see the fun in it.
Yes they are awful. Really embarrassing some of their behaviour.
People making excuses for them are just morons.
I view myself as British, as I've got an even split of all the home nations in me but I've lived my life in England, and I really dislike my country at the best of times because of its attitudes, politics and the disparity across the country. (this could realistically be said about most countries to be fair)
That said, I feel the need to offer "some" pushback against the generalisation and the sentiment that's been absolutely heaving on this forum for weeks now regarding the image of England and English football fans, largely from oversees posters but also fellow brits, that at times has bordered on embarrassing, particularly last night. I Don't really know the best way to format my thoughts, as an essay might be too much, so ill address it in points. Minor things to note, there will be generalisations, and almost everything not specifically stated will also apply to pretty much every country across the world, sometimes with it being far worse.
>Britain, not just England but all the home nations, has a really awful relationship with alcohol and drugs. I've seen it throughout my life culturally, and thankfully I have seen it start to change as I was leaving university a few years ago but i doubt that is representative of the problem demographics. This is THE major factor influencing attitudes towards British tourists on holiday or football fans. I've been on lads holidays, to sporting events, to just standard nights out at the weekend, and there is something quantifiably different about British attitudes to drugs and alcohol, and it probably is rooted in some historical sentiment of counterculture and generational wealth divides. There are things that are fundamentally accepted for drunk British people that other countries just simply wont do, some of which I have in hindsight done and regretted. For example last night a foreign student friend was watching the game with us and she was really shocked by a few of the videos circulating yesterday because of the public nudity, which was essentially a Scene out of one of the jackass movies, you probably know the clip I mean. Having spent a fair bit of time in Spain and other countries in the continent, This is a massive nono, a huge cultural faux pas, but bread and butter in any night out across Britain on a weekly basis. Britain is an incredibly divided country with a totally broken working class, this isn't something that looks to change anytime soon, and its this demographic that is most effected and spends their life following football as a means for fulfilment.
>I would be interested in official data regarding incidents last night and how it compares to other tournaments and nations, but it screams to me "Covid steam blow off". Not excusing the behaviour at all as its obviously a blight, but the specific scenario yesterday is something we've never seen before. Everyone across the world has largely been cooped up, fans aren't even allowed at the Olympics, and all of a sudden restrictions are about to be removed and fans are being allowed to congregate after 15 months of isolation with England at a major final for the first time in 50 odd years, its a no brainer that whatever emotions and behaviours that came out last night were amplified. But as said, you would have to look at the data and similar examples in Italy, what happened there and what their restrictions are like.
> Narrative and coverage. England in particular, being the most represented of the home nations, have a history with hooliganism going back decades internationally, and this has unequivocally improved in recent history, while still being thoroughly shit, because hey, ill say it, as a demographic football fans from every country disproportionately contain some of the worst elements of people in society and throws them together in a tribal mob mentality. In Russia 2 years ago, because of this reputation, fans who had travelled and generally were mostly well behaved were targeted by Russian ultras and chased off the streets and beaten. There is a definitive lag between what other countries view England as historically, and where they realistically are today, and because of this well earned hatred, there is an interest in disliking England fans beyond what is probably fair, as we can see from EVERYONE coming out of the woodwork to shit on anyone and everyone yesterday. This is before any historical or geopolitical context is applied, which further ramps this up. I would wager, adjusting for different policing methods, that incidents and crime relating to football is probably similar across the continent, as all countries have their share of cnuts, England gets a lot more focus which then adds to the fervour. There are loads of racist England fans booing the squad for being against racism, and a lots who clap to drown out the gammon, although it still disgusts me. On the other hand i was there a decade and a half ago as a far younger chap in Spain having to listen to the entire Spanish crowd Making monkey noises and throwing bananas at the black members of the England squad, ill never forget that and many more incidences of this type of behaviour from foreign fans.
Unfortunately, football as a working class game (probably in name only at this point) shares a overriding correlation to the most problematic aspects of that demographic, and i don't think England fans are significantly worse than any other fans, other than the fact they are probably worse looking and they get a lot more coverage. Other countries just don't like England for historical reasons and i probably agree with a lot of them, and that fine, but will use any excuse to berate them. It was hilarious to see people of all nations rally behind italy as a paragon of the game considering their well earned reputation for poor sportsmanship, play acting, shithousery and fan violence. The best team did win however, well done Italy.
That said, I feel the need to offer "some" pushback against the generalisation and the sentiment that's been absolutely heaving on this forum for weeks now regarding the image of England and English football fans, largely from oversees posters but also fellow brits, that at times has bordered on embarrassing, particularly last night. I Don't really know the best way to format my thoughts, as an essay might be too much, so ill address it in points. Minor things to note, there will be generalisations, and almost everything not specifically stated will also apply to pretty much every country across the world, sometimes with it being far worse.
>Britain, not just England but all the home nations, has a really awful relationship with alcohol and drugs. I've seen it throughout my life culturally, and thankfully I have seen it start to change as I was leaving university a few years ago but i doubt that is representative of the problem demographics. This is THE major factor influencing attitudes towards British tourists on holiday or football fans. I've been on lads holidays, to sporting events, to just standard nights out at the weekend, and there is something quantifiably different about British attitudes to drugs and alcohol, and it probably is rooted in some historical sentiment of counterculture and generational wealth divides. There are things that are fundamentally accepted for drunk British people that other countries just simply wont do, some of which I have in hindsight done and regretted. For example last night a foreign student friend was watching the game with us and she was really shocked by a few of the videos circulating yesterday because of the public nudity, which was essentially a Scene out of one of the jackass movies, you probably know the clip I mean. Having spent a fair bit of time in Spain and other countries in the continent, This is a massive nono, a huge cultural faux pas, but bread and butter in any night out across Britain on a weekly basis. Britain is an incredibly divided country with a totally broken working class, this isn't something that looks to change anytime soon, and its this demographic that is most effected and spends their life following football as a means for fulfilment.
>I would be interested in official data regarding incidents last night and how it compares to other tournaments and nations, but it screams to me "Covid steam blow off". Not excusing the behaviour at all as its obviously a blight, but the specific scenario yesterday is something we've never seen before. Everyone across the world has largely been cooped up, fans aren't even allowed at the Olympics, and all of a sudden restrictions are about to be removed and fans are being allowed to congregate after 15 months of isolation with England at a major final for the first time in 50 odd years, its a no brainer that whatever emotions and behaviours that came out last night were amplified. But as said, you would have to look at the data and similar examples in Italy, what happened there and what their restrictions are like.
> Narrative and coverage. England in particular, being the most represented of the home nations, have a history with hooliganism going back decades internationally, and this has unequivocally improved in recent history, while still being thoroughly shit, because hey, ill say it, as a demographic football fans from every country disproportionately contain some of the worst elements of people in society and throws them together in a tribal mob mentality. In Russia 2 years ago, because of this reputation, fans who had travelled and generally were mostly well behaved were targeted by Russian ultras and chased off the streets and beaten. There is a definitive lag between what other countries view England as historically, and where they realistically are today, and because of this well earned hatred, there is an interest in disliking England fans beyond what is probably fair, as we can see from EVERYONE coming out of the woodwork to shit on anyone and everyone yesterday. This is before any historical or geopolitical context is applied, which further ramps this up. I would wager, adjusting for different policing methods, that incidents and crime relating to football is probably similar across the continent, as all countries have their share of cnuts, England gets a lot more focus which then adds to the fervour. There are loads of racist England fans booing the squad for being against racism, and a lots who clap to drown out the gammon, although it still disgusts me. On the other hand i was there a decade and a half ago as a far younger chap in Spain having to listen to the entire Spanish crowd Making monkey noises and throwing bananas at the black members of the England squad, ill never forget that and many more incidences of this type of behaviour from foreign fans.
Unfortunately, football as a working class game (probably in name only at this point) shares a overriding correlation to the most problematic aspects of that demographic, and i don't think England fans are significantly worse than any other fans, other than the fact they are probably worse looking and they get a lot more coverage. Other countries just don't like England for historical reasons and i probably agree with a lot of them, and that fine, but will use any excuse to berate them. It was hilarious to see people of all nations rally behind italy as a paragon of the game considering their well earned reputation for poor sportsmanship, play acting, shithousery and fan violence. The best team did win however, well done Italy.
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They can't drink for plus maybe low tolerance and society allowance for 'he was drunk' excuses. Happens too often for a 'there are scums everywhere'. Yes, there are, but not as many.
Read my post above. Not trying to defend the indefensible, these people are idiots (and because it's a country not a club we are talking here, a higher % of idiots to draw from). Just trying to rationalise it, and place it in context if that's even possible.
Rather than limiting to the English fans (considering we have evidence it's more than just English), maybe we need to consider football fans as a whole, considering it seems to be a common thing?
An org that deals with domestic abuse had to release a statement over the weekend about abuse rates when a country loses and prior to the match a few of my friends who are fellow minorities were sharing safety tips among each other in the event that England loses, that's disturbing.
An org that deals with domestic abuse had to release a statement over the weekend about abuse rates when a country loses and prior to the match a few of my friends who are fellow minorities were sharing safety tips among each other in the event that England loses, that's disturbing.
Honestly felt disgusted and unsafe at various points yesterday in the pub I was in.
Full blown fight broke out between different groups for no reason causing a lot of damage. From the beginning people smashing glasses, tables, chairs. Aggressively anti Italian from the beginning.
Makes me want to totally disengage from the whole thing so I'm not around these cnuts.
And yes it happens in other countries. I happened to be in France for the last Euros final and they smashed some stuff up after the final and little bit of abuse went Ronaldos way. Nobody was disrespectful to Portugal, certainly not on a wide scale and the atmosphere generally, even after the loss, was OK.
Full blown fight broke out between different groups for no reason causing a lot of damage. From the beginning people smashing glasses, tables, chairs. Aggressively anti Italian from the beginning.
Makes me want to totally disengage from the whole thing so I'm not around these cnuts.
And yes it happens in other countries. I happened to be in France for the last Euros final and they smashed some stuff up after the final and little bit of abuse went Ronaldos way. Nobody was disrespectful to Portugal, certainly not on a wide scale and the atmosphere generally, even after the loss, was OK.
The London police was also very poorly prepared: Porto hosted the Champions League final and while there were a few brawls, they were mostly solved by local riot police.
Police officials whow ere responsible for planning the security of the city in that day should be dismissed: even though the bad fans are the main culprit, the police clearly was clueless on how to act.
Police officials whow ere responsible for planning the security of the city in that day should be dismissed: even though the bad fans are the main culprit, the police clearly was clueless on how to act.
Regardless of whether this happens elsewhere and how many are involved, it's a part of football culture we shouldn't accept and it happens too often. You would expect to see stewards and security making more of an effort to stop this as well.
No excuses for these people, we should deal with it more robustly.
No excuses for these people, we should deal with it more robustly.
Great post.
Laura Woods on Talksport was at Wembley yesterday and when leaving asked for a colleague to escort her because she didn't feel safe with what was she could see happening outside.
I know plenty of English people that will be utterly embarrassed looking at the footage and images. Unfortunately there will always be an element that will wreck it for the rest of us, no matter what country you're in. I've seen it everywhere I've been.
He addressed this in his OP. It's not that this country has racists or hooligans generally. Its that this country has so many, and we still beat our chest like imbeciles without acknowledging a problem within ourselves.
But the "element" of English fans ruining it are too big in numbers. These aren't just pocket ultras like other countries. They come in herds.
A bit thorn on that.
On the one hand I'd rather see the English hosting tournaments as it's their own place they're stinking.
On the other hand for the amount of incidents AND sunday league level of security and organisation they should surely forget about hosting any tournament for the forseeable future? Seeing 100s of ticketless cnuts getting in and all the riots is the definition of backward.
Wonder if they'll at least get a closed door punishment for a few matches, I guess not.
On the one hand I'd rather see the English hosting tournaments as it's their own place they're stinking.
On the other hand for the amount of incidents AND sunday league level of security and organisation they should surely forget about hosting any tournament for the forseeable future? Seeing 100s of ticketless cnuts getting in and all the riots is the definition of backward.
Wonder if they'll at least get a closed door punishment for a few matches, I guess not.
What are the numbers in comparison to those who don't like the violence then?
Everyone seems to think they know them. I'm interested to know the figures.
I’d say from what I seen there’s enough violence around the place for the normal fans to feel intimidated and to get the feck out of there and possibly not even attend again, As has been posted in this thread. That’s a problem without knowing percentages.
I'm not sure. Yesterday was unique in that there were probably scumbags getting involved who ordinarily wouldn't have been out watching the game. So I think it would be unfair to attribute everything from yesterday to just football fans. I agree there's an element but that is everywhere. My mate seen someone stabbed to death in South America for wandering into the wrong fanzone in the wrong colours. I'm not trying to rationalise.
After seeing all the horrendous footage from yesterday, and already knowing of that small but vocal element from the past with the hardcore national support, I would not feel safe going to a tournament in England. Which is a massive shame because domestically it has never been a problem.
Same, which is a massive shame.
I took my kid to the champions league final in cardiff, he was decked in Madrid gear And we walked through juve fans with them patting him on the back and smiling.
like feck would I take him anywhere near Wembley in the wrong colours if England were playing after seeing this week.
Yes, you can see on the video above that older guy with glasses (maybe around 50). He doesn't look like a hooligan or anybody who usually get in fights, but he is the one who punches everyone who looks slightly Italian. Furthermore that kicking to someones head when he is on the ground has potential to kill someone.
Honestly speaking, even without these pictures, England had the worst fans of this Euro. By far!