We’re actually class on paper

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

In terms of player for player, in comparison with other top teams we’re up there now, for the first time in seemingly forever. How many teams can you with confidence say are better then us?

Better than us
Man City
PSG (debatable)
Bayern Munich (debatable)

Similar level
Chelsea, Liverpool, Juventus, Inter, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid

I think we’re at the point squad wise where there is no reason why we shouldn’t be considered one of the best teams in the world (it’s been a while) & I honestly think we are contenders for the Premier League & Champions League. Especially if we sign a DM, which is vital to our hopes this season.

And yes I know we just lost to Villarreal “hold your horses” & that, but looking at our squad there’s a lot of reasons to be excited.

 

[DickDastardly]

Can't help but feel excited for the new season.

We just need a good start.

And Ole needs to rotate enough, there is plenty of talent and skill on the bench now, needs to use them smarter and more often.

 

[Pexbo]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

You're nuts if you think De Gea and Donnarumma are equal. I'd have Neymar better than bruno as well.

 

[Ole's screen]

In before it turns into another Ole bashing thread.

 

[RedSky]

Varane and Sancho have provided big upgrades to our first eleven. We're still weak in midfield compared to other teams though. But our defense and attack is top class.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

That's extremely positive.

 

[Jeppers7]

We’re definitely getting somewhere...on paper at least. Really excited to see the team in full flow this season. If we can sort midfield out then I think we’re good to challenge anyone. I’m most hoping that not every game is a coin toss this season. That we smash some teams and I can actually enjoy watching some games before they end.

 

[dalriada]

In terms of player for player, in comparison with other top teams we’re up there now, for the first time in seemingly forever. How many teams can you with confidence say are better then us?

Better than us
Man City
PSG (debatable)
Bayern Munich (debatable)

Similar level
Chelsea, Liverpool, Juventus, Inter, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid

I think we’re at the point squad wise where there is no reason why we shouldn’t be considered one of the best teams in the world (it’s been a while) & I honestly think we are contenders for the Premier League & Champions League. Especially if we sign a DM, which is vital to our hopes this season.

And yes I know we just lost to Villarreal “hold your horses” & that, but looking at our squad there’s a lot of reasons to be excited.

I'm genuinely looking forward to this season with optimism, for all sorts of reasons, not least because last season was dominated by clubs managing their way through COVID restrictions and the crazy schedule. Hopefully, this season is a return to near-normality.
Beyond that, I'm hoping the two recent signings will be as influential as I'm Bruno was when he arrived. I think there'll be more opportunity to use the squad through the season, which will benefit those players. Add to that we have some promising youngsters, it would be great to see them contribute.
Not underestimating the quality of our closest opponents, but this feels like a squad put together with a plan, unlike some of the seasons since SAF retired.
With a lot of other clubs struggling to afford better players, yes, I have a good feeling that this could be the season we're truly back.

 

[Jev]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

Neymar is streets ahead of Bruno, come on. Pogba not better than Veratti judged by how they've actually played.

 

[Pexbo]

You're nuts if you think De Gea and Donnarumma are equal. I'd have Neymar better than bruno as well.

You’re judging Donnarumma on a good World Cup where he got to show off his main strength, penalties, and had Chiellini and Bonnuci organising the defence ahead of him. He’s got a tonne of potential but he’s still fairly unpolished. De Gea is a much more accomplished keeper during open play.

 

[Pexbo]

That's extremely positive.

Which do you disagree with?

 

[bosnian_red]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

Verratti as a deeper midfielder is undoubtedly better than Pogba, and if anything you should compare Sancho to Neymar and Bruno to Di Maria (so Neymar wins and Bruno wins), and I'd put Ramos and Maguire level at best for Maguire while Varane beats Marquinhos. And donnarumma easily the better goalkeeper. They also just got Hakimi at RB as well.

Neymar and Mbappe is the top end level that drags them up and we don't have a player on that level, though yeah on paper we are among the best. The biggest problem is midfield balance, we can't put out a balanced high quality midfield while they and the other big teams can. Bayern have Goretzka and Kimmich, liverpool have Fabinho in there to hold it together, City have Fernandinho or Rodri behind Gundogan and KDB, Barcelona have De Jong/Busquets/Rodri, Real Madrid have Casemiro/Kroos/Modric, Chelsea have Jorginho/Kante, PSG have Verratti and then a selection of ball winning midfielders to partner him with and Di Maria to provide cutting edge (and possibly Pogba instead). Even Dortmund have Witsel as a sitter, Leicester have Ndidi and Tielemans... Uniteds midfield pairing behind Bruno is way too low in quality and it holds us back and will continue to do so. We can't be balanced with Pogba there with what we have, while Fred and McTominay provide better balance but nowhere near enough quality.

 

[arnie_ni]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

I don't normally argue these things cause it's all subjective, but the Veratti pogba one sticks out massively. What makes you think that?

 

[arnie_ni]

In before it turns into another Ole bashing thread.

We have the squad. If we don't do well serious questions need asked (ignoring any odd circumstances), he doesn't really have any excuses anymore.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Which do you disagree with?

Ramos and Donnarumma are miles better than Maguire and De Gea. Uniteds Pogba also isn't as good as Verratti I think though that's close. I also rate Marquinhos higher than Varane but let's first see how Varane does for United. On the contrary I don't think Wijnaldum is much better than Fred but will he even play? Sancho vs Di Maria we don't know for sure yet but I think you are right there.

 

[VorZakone]

So is the "rebuilding" finally over now or will that excuse continue to go on?

 

[bond19821982]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

That's a stretch.

 

[Tomuś]

We've been said to be class on paper plenty of times post Fergie. Then, as per usual, we've ended up claiming we're 4 players away from a top side.

Maybe it's time to actually let the players play before we judge.

 

[rotherham_red]

The midfield is top 6 PL level but everything else is pretty close. Once the DM comes in and a striker to replace Cavani, the other outstanding bits and pieces are minor purchases for squad depth

 

[OleBoiii]

I don't think it's debatable that Bayern and PSG are better than us. They definitely are.

But to potentially have the 4th best team in the world on paper is still pretty good! It just sucks that one of the 3 teams ahead of us is in the PL. Not to mention that we have 2 teams in the PL that are on a similar level as us.

The PL was weaker than normal under Moyes, Van Gaal and most of Mourinho's tenure. Now it's back in full force and it kind of reminds of the time between 2005 and 2009 when you almost could expect 2 or 3 PL teams in the semi-finals of the Champions League.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

Neymar is definitely better than Bruno in big games, Di Maria is one of the best players of the pitch in every big game (CL quater finals upwards) which is something Sancho still needs to prove, Donnarumo is miles better De Gea..

Not saying we dont have a very strong squad this year, just replying to the comparisons madehere..

 

[El Jefe]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

Quite a few of these are questionable but Neymar=Bruno is crazy talk.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

I think you have overrated our players or underrated their players a bit. For me..
Donnarumma > DDG (significantly)
Ramos > Maguire (although the gap has closed)
Varane > Marquinhos
Pogba=Veratti
Neymar > Bruno

I agree with your other assessments. Although you left out right backs. I’d probably give Hakimi the edge over AWB.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

De Gea - Ter Steegen | No doubt
Wan Bissaka - Dest | Dest is better going forward and on the ball, WB much better defensively
Varane - Pique | Pique is over the hill
Maguire - Garcia | Garcia has everything to prove
Shaw - Alba | Both amongst the best in the world in this position now
Fred - Frenkie | No doubt
Pogba- Busquets | France Pogba would make this a contest, United Pogba isnt anywehere near that level
Sancho - Messi (assumption still) | No doubt
Bruno - Pedri | I will not rate Bruno here in the way some do before he starts delivering in big matches
Rashford - Fati/Griezmann | Depends on the form of the day
Cavani - Depay | I would say Cavani edges it based on prior perfomances on top leagues, but Depay is in the height of his carreer.. Can go either way coming season..

This is fun

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Varane and Sancho have provided big upgrades to our first eleven. We're still weak in midfield compared to other teams though. But our defense and attack is top class.

I agree that finding a way to shift from the “McFred” pivot is essential to challenging on all fronts this season. Both decent squad players, we can’t be relying on them to start week in week out. They are Butt & Fletcher’s, not Scholes & Keane’s.

 

[Lelouch geass]

In terms of player for player, in comparison with other top teams we’re up there now, for the first time in seemingly forever. How many teams can you with confidence say are better then us?

Better than us
Man City
PSG (debatable)
Bayern Munich (debatable)

Similar level
Chelsea, Liverpool, Juventus, Inter, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid

I think we’re at the point squad wise where there is no reason why we shouldn’t be considered one of the best teams in the world (it’s been a while) & I honestly think we are contenders for the Premier League & Champions League. Especially if we sign a DM, which is vital to our hopes this season.

And yes I know we just lost to Villarreal “hold your horses” & that, but looking at our squad there’s a lot of reasons to be excited.

Chelsea has too many similar players with weak mentality and I dont think they will finish above us even this season. Liverpool used to be better but now our starting 11 is younger, faster, better and we have bigger squad. Real and Barca- Minus the Messi and DM of Real rest are beatable and we are better. Athletico Madrid- Bruno Pogba, Sancho Varane cannot be matched. PSG- I think they on paper are better than us. City- Just ask Ole how to beat them but in Starting 11 De Bryune shifts balance a bit.

 

[WR10]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

Jeez I didn’t realize how formidable PSG have become. The only thing they were missing was proper leadership to keep them in check in big games. Ramos and Donnarumma will be slapping Mbappe and Neymar around the head

 

[Lelouch geass]

You're nuts if you think De Gea and Donnarumma are equal. I'd have Neymar better than bruno as well.

Neymar is only better than Bruno on salary and crying.

 

[Sandikan]

The days of claiming our squad are poor are well gone.

Over to Ole to see what he can produce now.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We've been said to be class on paper plenty of times post Fergie. Then, as per usual, we've ended up claiming we're 4 players away from a top side.

Maybe it's time to actually let the players play before we judge.

For me, right now, as someone who has said in the past “we’re 4-5 players away” I say right now we should be challenging & we are 1 player away (DM) from being a clear top 5 club in the world. Upgrading DM is so so important. This is easily the strongest post been post Fergie.

 

[pocco]

The midfield is top 6 PL level but everything else is pretty close. Once the DM comes in and a striker to replace Cavani, the other outstanding bits and pieces are minor purchases for squad depth

We've got Bruno in midfield, have Paul Pogba, who people are currently arguing should be renewed because he's this and that, statistically one of the best midfielders every year etc. Then Fred, McTominay and Matic. Are we really top 6 level or just not playing a system that suits our options (eg midfield 3)?

 

[Ali Dia]

I agree that finding a way to shift from the “McFred” pivot is essential to challenging on all fronts this season. Both decent squad players, we can’t be relying on them to start week in week out. They are Butt & Fletcher’s, not Scholes & Keane’s.

I agree with this. Camavinga or Neves sitting would be an upgrade if we do it

 

[Desert Eagle]

You’re judging Donnarumma on a good World Cup where he got to show off his main strength, penalties, and had Chiellini and Bonnuci organising the defence ahead of him. He’s got a tonne of potential but he’s still fairly unpolished. De Gea is a much more accomplished keeper during open play.

Current De Gea is not even close to current Donnarumma even if you take away all of his world cup performances. De Gea might not even start for us for fecks sake

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I agree with this. Camavinga or Neves sitting would be an upgrade if we do it

Is Camavinga actually a sitting DM? I’ve heard conflicting information about him. Some people say he’s a box to box in the Fred/McT mould. Which isn’t really what we need.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The midfield is top 6 PL level but everything else is pretty close. Once the DM comes in and a striker to replace Cavani, the other outstanding bits and pieces are minor purchases for squad depth

Our midfield has Bruno Fernandes & Paul Pogba. In those positions Spurs have Dele Alli & Moussa Sissoko, and Arsenal have Emile Smith-Rowe & Granit Xhaka. I would say our midfield is much better than just top 6 level. If we could nab Ndidi off Leicester we would have arguably the strongest midfield in the league.

 

[Ali Dia]

Is Camavinga actually a sitting DM? I’ve heard conflicting information about him. Some people say he’s a box to box in the Fred/McT mould. Which isn’t really what we need.

He’s currently a tackler/interceptor with above average passing and he has the potential to be a very dominant sitter or box to box. Neves for me is just tidy on the ball and fairly disciplined. I’d rather take a punt on Camavinga. With Varane and Maguire behind him he should be fine. I’d like Fred or Mct to get further up the pitch feeding / protecting Bruno and pressing

 

[TwoSheds]

De Gea - Ter Steegen | No doubt
Wan Bissaka - Dest | Dest is better going forward and on the ball, WB much better defensively
Varane - Pique | Pique is over the hill
Maguire - Garcia | Garcia has everything to prove
Shaw - Alba | Both amongst the best in the world in this position now
Fred - Frenkie | No doubt
Pogba- Busquets | France Pogba would make this a contest, United Pogba isnt anywehere near that level
Sancho - Messi (assumption still) | No doubt
Bruno - Pedri | I will not rate Bruno here in the way some do before he starts delivering in big matches
Rashford - Fati/Griezmann | Depends on the form of the day
Cavani - Depay | I would say Cavani edges it based on prior perfomances on top leagues, but Depay is in the height of his carreer.. Can go either way coming season..

This is fun

The idea that there's anyone in world football who would take Dest over Wan-Bissaka at RB right now

 

[AltiUn]

I’m not convinced PSG are better than us on paper.

Icardi < Cavani
Mbappe > Rashford
Neymar = Bruno
Di Maria < Sancho
Veratti < Pogba
Wijnaldum > Fred
Bernat < Shaw
Marquinhos = Varane
Ramos < Maguire
Donnarumma = De Gea


Theres really not much in it. I don’t think they have much strength in depth either.

I'd argue that on paper, barring LB, PSG have the best team in Europe.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

De Gea - Ter Steegen | No doubt
Wan Bissaka - Dest | Dest is better going forward and on the ball, WB much better defensively
Varane - Pique | Pique is over the hill
Maguire - Garcia | Garcia has everything to prove
Shaw - Alba | Both amongst the best in the world in this position now
Fred - Frenkie | No doubt
Pogba- Busquets | France Pogba would make this a contest, United Pogba isnt anywehere near that level
Sancho - Messi (assumption still) | No doubt
Bruno - Pedri | I will not rate Bruno here in the way some do before he starts delivering in big matches
Rashford - Fati/Griezmann | Depends on the form of the day
Cavani - Depay | I would say Cavani edges it based on prior perfomances on top leagues, but Depay is in the height of his carreer.. Can go either way coming season..

This is fun

I don’t rate Wan-Bissaka much but Dest is shit. No way are they equal. Bruno & Cavani are better than Pedri & Depay too. Although surely they are going to use Aguero as centre forward, not Depay? Aguero is better than Cavani.