The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
Tell me if I totally misunderstood something. These covid vaccines are supposed to reduce the effects of an infection which in theory reduces the infectiousness of someone that has covid? Now it seems that many people think that the vaccine make them immune to the virus, many have seemingly stopped wearing masks where they should, they have stopped washing their hands as often, don't really maintain proper distance with people that are outside of their bubble and generally act as if the virus didn't exist anymore. So is it that surprising that we see a raise in the amount of people infected including vaccinated people?
I think tiredness has set in generally - vaccinated or not. In the UK, antibody levels suggest that nearly 95% of adults have had covid, or had the vaccine, or had both. Generally I think people (including many scientists) believe we've given it our best shot and there's no reason to wait for some kind of "it's over," improvement, sometime in the indefinite future.
There's still mileage in some mitigations - particularly the ones that don't affect how we interact with each other. Things like better ventilation and better filtration of treated air for example. Encouraging rapid testing before you visit elderly/vulnerable family members or go on journeys or to events will get some take-up.
The other things? I hope we can encourage (or in the case of the UK go back to it being a legal requirement) use of masks in supermarkets etc and on public transport, and respect social distancing in queues etc - so that the most vulnerable don't have to hide. But for the UK at least, I think that battle has already been lost - unless deaths/hospitalisations start to zoom up again.
Not really, not in terms of individual risk for adults - it's still safer to be vaxxed first - but we do need to have a proper conversation about what happens next. There's a difference between being antivax and accepting the limitations of vaccination.
I'm not at all convinced by the idea that mass boosters for example are an appropriate way forward and it alarms me that some countries are already changing vaccine passports to exclude vaccinations that are more than 9 months old.
I'm not convinced on moral grounds - the doses we're talking about dispensing in the autumn are needed globally.
I'm not even convinced by the science so far - chasing ongoing infection efficacy of 90%+ rather than looking at serious illness as the criteria seems wrong.
I also suspect that the real world efficiency calculations being done at the moment are full of holes. With a mostly vaccinated population, and a high level of infection immunity amongst the unvaxxed, it gets harder to find anything like a matched immune-naive control group. Particularly once issues like age, social deprivation, ethnicity, comorbidity, number of social/work contacts enter the picture. Now throw in "willingness to get tested" and I doubt that case rates are accurate enough to look at them on a jab efficacy week-by-week basis as we've started seeing in the press.
You trust your immune system to a brand new virus? How does that work?
Also you are not taking other peoples lives into consideration. If it were up to me If I could prove a friend or relative died because a vaccine refuser got them infected with covid and the refuser recovered I would charge them with manslaughter.
Also a Covid 19 vaccine refuser should be automatically be refused for any other injections/vaccinations they may need.
I mean that's in his username to clear up any such potential confusion
True....but based on the remainder of the name you probably be on the lookout for a sword carrying person in red pajamas.
In the current AU outbreak of about 10k Delta infections we have only had 1 death of a fully vaccinated person, who was 90 year old and had other health issues. Other than that we have had no admissions to ICU of fully vaccinated people. That has to be good news.
You used this "evidence" to say there must be long term side effects to vaccination, which is utter nonsense. You might as well say BMW's kill people because 3% of the 12,000 owned one.basically proving my point by trying to frame that quote on me? Did I suggest it or did I simply cite from The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)?
the article actually states that deaths did occurr after vaccination, but that there is no definitive evidence to substantiate that the vaccination was the leading cause.
context my friend!
One for the tech enthusiasts. Another study suggesting that though vaxxed people can get covid, it looks like they're less infectious. Hopefully the results get confirmed more widely. Incidentally it does fit with what PHE report - actual contact infection rates being reduced.
While the preprint is about vaccinated responses to Delta infection, it uses a control group from back in the pre-delta, pre-alpha, pre-vaccine era - which means this is potentially even better news. A discussion of that here:
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While the preprint is about vaccinated responses to Delta infection, it uses a control group from back in the pre-delta, pre-alpha, pre-vaccine era - which means this is potentially even better news. A discussion of that here:
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I may be wrong in the way I’m reading this but is that apprentice hoping they get pinged this get to call in & ‘isolate’?
My mate working in retail was pinged the other week & was paid for his initial isolation but has been told if he was to be pinged again without vaccination he’d be off unpaid. He got his first jab at a walk in clinic on Wednesday. . .
I’ve suspected people were using the ping’demic to their advantage but for someone to be so brazen as to tell people they’re not getting jabbed so they get time off is surprising. Wonder what the client would think if they knew.
I wonder how many other people died after being convinced by him that they shouldn’t get a vaccine.
I'm not sure but I don't know how people like Didier Raoult in France sleep at night. They fueled the whole anti-vax movement in the entire world and probably caused thousands of deaths if not more. Hope this tought crosses their mind at one point.
Pfizer approved for over 12s in Australia
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/pfizer-to-be-offered-for-ndis-participants/100398916
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/pfizer-to-be-offered-for-ndis-participants/100398916
In the NSW outbreak we have,
100 people in ICU
87% no jabs
13% one jab
0% two jabs
100 people in ICU
87% no jabs
13% one jab
0% two jabs
Similar story here, including deaths. Only one fully vaccinated has unfortunately passed away (a 90 year old man with history of chronic kidney disease and hypertension). Vaccines clearly work and help the situation. Can't stress that enough.
Niche interest post, but Valneva have commenced their rolling submission to the MHRA https://valneva.com/press-release/v...-its-inactivated-adjuvanted-covid-19-vaccine/
I'm hoping we might see some early announcements on the measured antibody levels from the trial. They seem to be aiming for end of 2021 for approval, so hopefully I get to go on a holiday somewhere warm next year!
I'm hoping we might see some early announcements on the measured antibody levels from the trial. They seem to be aiming for end of 2021 for approval, so hopefully I get to go on a holiday somewhere warm next year!
It looks like vaccination rates in Australia are really taking off now, which is great. Is that just that supply issues have been sorted out, or is the current outbreak motivating a few more people to get themselves protected do you think?
Brilliant analysis of th Israeli data that shows the actual efficacy of vaccines against severe disease, that is being quoted by the media as being lower by just looking at bare numbers without deeper context.
https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated
https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated
Excellent read, thanks for posting!
I was going to post this but I see someone already did the cut/paste for me so I am going to use it:
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This goes to what others and I have been saying in this thread, that vaccinations decrease the infectiousness of a person. Glad to see more and more data show thing this, although the media that I have seen is only focused on the "viral loads are the same" portion which is only half of the story.
and there you go. Let's see if all those "It's Experimental and not approved!!"people rush out and get their shots
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Looks like it’s giving organizations license to enforce mandates such as this one:
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Well, maybe unless you live in Texas that is…
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@Swiss_Red89 are u ok?
Ain't that the truth.
My team had a call today to where one member discussed this years ECCMID ( European Congress of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases ) general meeting that she had (virtually) attended. It was depressing to hear the amount of sessions devoted to combatting vaccine hesitancy. My big concern is that the politicization of the current mRNA vaccines will inhibit and/or discourage future developments in this area. Traditional vaccines have issues, and some (like the polio vaccine) have/had substantial issues. We need to push hard at advances in this area, not discourage them. Right now the low transport/storage temps are the biggest issue. If that can be overcome then this tech should be cheaper and much easier to mass produce.
The big problem with RNA is the fact that the name is too close to DNA. I'm not joking, call that Messenger Polymeric Molecule or something like that and you defuse half of the antivax arguments.
Possible, but they could have called it "The Safest Molecule Ever XOXO" and people would still freak out because they are being told to do so. The goalposts will always be moved and the "reasons" will always be found.
Couldn't agree more.
Excellent review of where we stand about waning immunity. I personally am leaning towards not taking the booster at this time.
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I don't think the data suggests the need at this point. A third shot once vaccines are tweaked for Delta will be a good idea IMO but that isn't a booster as such.
I thought there was evidence a third shot of Pfizer helped, at least for those over 60? I’m not qualified to debate it, of course.
Here it is: Reuters
Here it is: Reuters
I think the debate is more regarding boosters for everyone. Like in USA where from Sep on everyone can get a 3rd booster if I am not mistaken.
They’ve said before that people should get the booster 8 months after, so that opens it up to some of the earlier vaccinated folk but for me that’s December.
Edit; I just checked my vaccination website: the booster is recommended and open for immunocompromised folk now, except ones that received the J&J shot
Boosters will always help the vaccinated in the same way tax breaks for the wealthy will help the wealthy financially. For the few who have lost it all they will be saved, but for the rest it is more dollars in the bank (antibodies in the body). The better plan for the health of the country and world is to get the vaccine into as many people as possible.
I just tested positive. I feel sad.
Oh man, you had your vaccines right? Hopefully shouldn’t be too bad. Stay home and rest up buddy.
Been a real crappy week with regards to covid.
Have two friends. One had the AZ a while back and has been in hospital with suspected stroke. Months since he had the AZ. Don't know if linked. He is in early 40's. Being investigated for blood clots etc.
Another friend early 30's hospitalized due to covid. Seemed to be pulling through now in coma and critical. Don't think will pull through. Absolutely brilliant lad. Very fit and active. No underlying conditions.
Have two friends. One had the AZ a while back and has been in hospital with suspected stroke. Months since he had the AZ. Don't know if linked. He is in early 40's. Being investigated for blood clots etc.
Another friend early 30's hospitalized due to covid. Seemed to be pulling through now in coma and critical. Don't think will pull through. Absolutely brilliant lad. Very fit and active. No underlying conditions.