Sure but I'm talking about the probability of a a young and healthy unvaccinated person becoming seriously ill from Covid-19. It's a fairly remote possibility.
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
- Start date
I know you are, and I’m pointing out that the probability of a young and healthy person becoming seriously ill from a COVID—19 vaccination is a much further remote possibility again.
If you had a lottery ticket which needed 6 numbers to win the jackpot and someone offered you to swap it for a ticket which only needed 5 numbers to win the jackpot, would you swap it or would you say “you know what, they’re both really unlikely anyway so I can’t be bothered to swap it”?
More like 6 numbers vs 600.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Except it isn't. It has been shown time and time again that chances of serious ill health or death from a vaccine is less than that of Covid.
How much of a risk changes through the age groups, and at one point it was the case where under 40s were at a higher risk from AZ than Covid, hence the changes to Pfizer and Moderna in the UK.
What can be confidently said at the moment though is that the Covid risk far outweighs the Vaccine risk. Maybe one day that will go swap again, but not for a long time.
It depends on what your view on vaccinations are. I got pretty ill from my Covid vaccine and if there was no greater societal good to it, knowing how ill I got coupled with the probability of me actually getting seriously ill from Covid then I might reconsider if I wanted it or not. I'm really low risk considering all the lifestyle and health factors that are known to increase the chances of catching and then becoming seriously ill from Covid.
Some people also have a profound fear of needles and I don't think it's totally irrational to be wary of new medications that come to the market in the initial stages.
That's not what I'm talking about.
Last edited:
You're right, I only scrolled on this page and it looked that way but going back a page I can see you were making some equally dense, but different, point.
Anybody who says I trust my body immunity bullshit must be subjected to a loki like weapon that he used to extract the eye of that musuem guy and extract all the vaccines and the anti bodies from their body this minute and then let them prattle on
In my opinion, that would be good, yes, i'd probably take an inactivated one to boost my already well-working immune system.
To clear up any possible confusion, i'm not "scared" of the vaccines available to me, i don't think that the different technologies are particularly unsafe in their current forms, even though i know more people with severe adverse effects to the vaccines than people, who developed severe symptoms from COVID - probably has to do with my age group (25-30).
But - statistics don't lie, those severe adverse effects don't happen very often, in the broader public definitely less often than severe COVID.
I'm just categorically against tinkering with genes and cells in any way, even if it's safe right now.
An example related to the available vaccines: If we are able to teach our cells to produce a spike protein through RNA, we may be able to teach them anything else if the technology gets further developed (maybe even to destroy themselves? I don't know for sure and i doubt any experts know at this point), that's a dangerous path in my opinion and as it's a new method nobody knows what will or won't be possible in the future. Who knows what kind of Mengele-type crazy person will come about some day and make use of the already existing technologies?
A different animal but one that has contributed to virology research in recent years: I'm also against any kind of use of the CRISPR/Cas method, because of the ways those kind of technologies could be used in the future, maybe ten, maybe twenty years from now.
I thoroughly understand that people disagree, argue that we need to deal with the pandemic first before we think about those things or may even think i'm just a conspiracy nutjob, though, and i hope i'm wrong as well, but we won't know whether my concerns were warranted until a lot of time has passed.
Its absolutey, 100% entirely irrational to be more wary of new medications than the virus they protect against when all empirical evidence points to the medication being magnitudes lower risk than the disease.
It’s almost the definition of of irrational to dismiss scientific evidence in favour of a gut feeling.
How would you not getting the vaccine prevent, or have any relationship at all, to any hypothetical future misuse of technology?
That's a fair point but it's not entirely based on 'gut feelings'. Some medications have side effects that don't come to light until later on. If you're calculating the risk of vaccine side effects against the risks of Covid then you're only calculating against presently known side effects. If you're very low risk, in isolation, then I don't think it's totally irrational to want to wait on that basis. It's not something that I'm worried about mind.
That said, my point was that I'm not convinced that pro-vaccination arguments directed towards the young and healthy on the basis of the risk of them getting seriously ill from Covid are especially potent. Claiming that lots of young people get ill from it is redundant because it's simply not true. I think for those demographics it's a better line of argument to convince them about the benefits to wider society through protecting the vulnerable the best we can.
All the arguments in here that you are playing with your life if you opt against the vaccine, even if you are around 30 years old and healthy, are the real irrational ones imo.
The chance to have a serve course are really, really low in this age group. Only because the media likes to highlight nearly every case of young persons struggling with covid doen't mean it's the norm.
I don't get the point about protection of the more vulnerable people either. If they had the vaccine they should be protected and saved from a serve course shouldn't they?
The only argument I agree is the one @Pogue Mahone posted about protection of the ones who are not able to get the vaccine for health reasons. This could be the only reason why I would decide to get the vaccine. This and to be able to go to stadiums, pubs etc. without expensive testing.
The chance to have a serve course are really, really low in this age group. Only because the media likes to highlight nearly every case of young persons struggling with covid doen't mean it's the norm.
I don't get the point about protection of the more vulnerable people either. If they had the vaccine they should be protected and saved from a serve course shouldn't they?
The only argument I agree is the one @Pogue Mahone posted about protection of the ones who are not able to get the vaccine for health reasons. This could be the only reason why I would decide to get the vaccine. This and to be able to go to stadiums, pubs etc. without expensive testing.
Last edited:
then you completely missed my point above. Beyond the simple fact that the unvaccinated provide a wonderful pool of people for the virus to persist in, they also get seriously ill at a significantly higher rate than vaccinated. This leads to significantly higher hospitalization rates and the overwhelming of medical systems. Look at Alabama and Mississippi and Florida. They literally have no ICU beds for gunshot victims. My friends in the medical systems down there are exhausted and burned completely out. Unless you are willing to forego an ICU bed should you get sickyou are chancing being a part of that.
with this many of us jabbed, are we nearly ready to meet up again and spit into each other’s mouths?
It also gives less hosts for this virus to mutate and create new more potent variants.
True.
I should have told my 34 year old healthy mate he was being irrational when he died of Covid back in February, what a silly bastard he was.
I know at least 4 people who were under 40 had no health issues (one worked at a gym) who died from delta. The anti-vaxx squad are dumb babies scared of a needle that's pretty much it.
I think irrational is not taking a proven safe & effective vaccine so you don't even have to worry about the chance you might change the quality of your life forever or even worse die.
Then you better stop taking any medications/treatments that were developed post 2015 as I guarantee you the cell lines used in the research and the mouse lines used for the initial animal studies were created using CRISPR.
There are always ethical concerns and I would agree that often times in science that bioethics trails progress at an unacceptable distance. That said, to ignore the monumental leaps forward these technologies provide out of concerns for future misuse is not productive. Of course they will be misused, just like every technology humanity has developed has been. However, the vast improvements they have, and will, bring to humanity greatly outweighs those.
You are probably right regarding the higher rate of people who get seriously ill when not vaccinated. But
1. The vaccine doesn't stop the virus from circulating, it only reduces the serve cases and
2. for example here in Switzetland we have a 50% rate of vaccinated people. In the more vulnerable age groups its around 80% and more. So if the vaccine is effective, I can't see the overcrowding of the hospitals happen only because of the unvaccinated persons, (most of them young and healthy ones).
Anyway, I'm aware that my views are controversial ones. I accept that a lot in here don't share it. I'm in holidays in the swiss mountains now, building up my immune system
so I will not spend more time in here arguing about a topic already discussed day in day out.Wish you all to stay safe and healthy, vaccinated or not.
Last edited:
There was a clinical trial running in Newquay last week codenamed Boardmaster. Hopefully someone will analyse vaxxed v unvaxxed, spit in mouth v just using the festival bogs etc.
Can you please tell us how the current vaccines are "tinkering with genes and cells"? Your opinion seems very uninformed.
1. That is not correct. Vaccinations reduce the spread and circulation due to 2 factors: 1) a reduction in the number of people who progress to an infectious state 2) A shortening of the infectious period for those who are vaccinated.You are probably right regarding the higher rate of people who get seriously ill when not vaccinated. But
1. The vaccine doesn't stop the virus from circulating, it only reduces the serve cases and
2. for example here in Switzetland we have a 50% rate of vaccinated people. In the more vulnerable age groups its around 80% and more. So if the vaccine is effective, I can't see the overcrowding of the hospitals happen only because of the unvaccinated persons, (most of them young and healthy ones).
Anyway, I'm aware that my views are controversial ones. I accept that a lot in here don't share it. I'm in holidays in the swiss mountains now, building up my immune system
Wish you all to stay safe and healthy, vaccinated or not.
2. That is not going to to work. Jefferson county (where Birmingham AL is located) has a 50% vaccination rate. The state is at 44%. They have a negative number of ICU beds available.
It is literally a fact that you have more chance of getting complications from Covid than you are from a vaccine. Despite what age a person is.
That's not his point, though. If you're 30 years old and healthy, the absolute chances of severe illness from COVID are not that high. You go through your everyday facing that sort of risk but don't take any actions to minimize it.
I took the vaccine, but if he perceives himself to be that healthy and I don't know, his odds of severe illness are like 1 in 500K and he's fine with that, that's a pretty rational position to take. Whether his odds are actually 1 in 500K, I don't know. I'm not commenting on his actual reasons for objecting to the vaccine on which I don't know anything to have an opinion on(and they sound bogus to me tbh).
Linking to that 1 healthy person who died of COVID does not disprove anything -- it's a bit like saying "It rained yesterday, so global warming isn't real".
But the odds are still worse than getting a vaccine. If you were offered a 500/1 chance an asteroid would hit you or a 900/1 chance which would you pick?
I'd trust my immune system.
Is this stance only about Covid vaccines? What about polio and others?
If you have a kid, what will you do? Will you vaccinate them or trust your genes to provide them natural immunity?
And all this means nothing for the rest of society that banks on even swiss body building Adonis's getting vaccinated to provide protection for the vulnerable.
Won’t be long til we can play soggy biscuit again.
Having had downtime with the first vaccine dose, and also having had covid, I can say with 100% certainty that if I had to choose one, I'd rather take my second dose, than have to go through covid again. And that's with having got covid which was termed "mild disease". I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Again, why do the vulnerable (and everyone else who got the vaccine) need protection from the whole rest of society when the very own vaccine is supposed to be able to protect them?
Is the goal really to exterminate the virus completely? Sry, this does not sound realistic or even is impossible and there are a lot of experts who claim exactly that.
My opinion is that there are a lot of financial and power interests involved in this whole matter. It's definetly not only about the health and safety of the society, like our politician and large parts of the media want us make to believe.
Last edited:
Some odd logic behind not taking a vaccine because it might make you ill but instead preferring to take your chances with a virus which is definitely more likely to make you ill.
Ditto not taking a vaccine because you're worried about potential long-term effects but not being concerned about the potential long-term of effects of being ill with Covid.
Ditto not taking a vaccine because you're worried about potential long-term effects but not being concerned about the potential long-term of effects of being ill with Covid.
Looks like doublespeak to me.
They quickly leave when anyone brings this up.
No, punishments are things done to you as an act of retribution while a consequence is something resulting from an action.
If a child touches a hot pot the consequence is the burned hand, while the punishment is whatever the parent decides to do.
Are you really this dense or just trying to feck around? The unvaccinated population here in the US is single handedly causing a crisis within our healthcare system. Multiple states in the south, where people think similarly to what you are saying, have zero ER/ICU capacity left. This means people having heart attacks, gunshot wounds, strokes, etc. are having to go huge distances to find a bed. People with painful but not critical conditions are being forced to delay their surgeries and treatment. Doctors and nurses are long past their exhaustion point.
Can we eradicate COVID? Probably not, but maybe we could if we had a global program like polio and smallpox (two viruses we DID essentially eradicate). That is besides the point though. The purpose of this vaccination was never to erdadicate COVID, it was to reduce the impact of COVID related morbidity and mortality.
As to your last sentence....who the feck cares if that is the case? I am a microbiologist and I am telling you the vaccine works and is critical to the health of society as a whole. Multiple MD's in this thread have said the same. If none of this is getting rough to you or the other anti-vax people (if you are refusing this vaccine you ARE anti-vax) then nothing will.