Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Desert Eagle]

I'm not sure how to answer this. But if you think both managers' requirements in terms of player profile is even somewhat similar, I'd say you need to rewatch our older games.

Hell, Start from LVG's tenure (I'd have said Moyes but he didn't spend a lot). No two consecutive managers we've hired since Moyes have had similar play styles and that's one of the reasons why whenever a new manager comes in he replaces the entire/most of the side. And this is in addition to some of the major flops Mou and especially LVG signed

I'd agree that LVG to Mourinho was polar opposites but i don't think that describes Mourinho and Ole tbh.

For one they both wanted Maguire, both played Lindelof, Cavani is pretty similar to Ibra. Matic, Mctom, Fred and Pogba all feature heavily for both.

I'd say the only difference between them is in the forward players where Mourinho liked his front players to defend a bit more than Ole who gives them more freedom. Having said that Ole does love him some Dan James.

They both play a 4-2-3-1 mainly and almost always have two midfielders shielding the back 4.

Both don't really play a possession game and prefer attacking on the counter.

 

[DJ_21]

You think Ole and Mourinho have polar opposite playing styles?

You don’t think they do? One likes to buy fast players with a view to playing quick attacking football, while the other likes to buy all 6ft plus players and physical players with a view to playing long ball and be hard to break down.

 

[Desert Eagle]

You don’t think they do? One likes to buy fast players with a view to playing quick attacking football, while the other likes to buy all 6ft plus players and physical players with a view to playing long ball and be hard to break down.

See my post right above yours. There are differences between the two but also a lot of similarities. I certainly would not call them polar opposites .

 

[anant]

I'd agree that LVG to Mourinho was polar opposites but i don't think that describes Mourinho and Ole tbh.

For one they both wanted Maguire, both played Lindelof, Cavani is pretty similar to Ibra. Matic, Mctom, Fred and Pogba all feature heavily for both.

I'd say the only difference between them is in the forward players where Mourinho liked his front players to defend a bit more than Ole who gives them more freedom. Having said that Ole does love him some Dan James.

Never did both our FBs push up. We mostly had 3+1 at the back when attacking. Cavani and Ibra are quite different. Cavani relies a lot more on movement than Zlatan ever did.

Mou played McT for his height (and he didnt play as Much as you're thinking he did) and you rarely saw McT support in the box. Fred hardly played under Mou, and even when he did, he played a more restricted role rather than a "dog off his leash" role under Ole (I prefer DMs to play with some discipline fwiw).

You'd never have a player like Bruno under Mou for obvious reasons, and I doubt he'd ever play a non-physically imposing figure as the #9 as well

 

[Robbie Boy]

Agreed. Look at the over reaction this season already, win 5-1 and its all great best team this that, draw to Southmapton and its all doom and gloom.

I honestly think Ole needs to be ruthless, he can be a better manager if he stops being so loyal.

Matic is done in the PL and Varane should come straight in.

I would hope that as the season levels out, the reactions will become far more rational whether we win, lose or draw. Having dramatic OTT reactions after every good/bad result, only serves to fan the flames. Some posters patiently wait, frothing at the mouth, for the next result that'll give them a one-up over the other 'side'! It's all pretty mental.

I had my spell of wanting Ole out circa Oct to Dec 2019. Admittedly and regrettably, my posts about him were harsh, but they were more reactionary towards other posters, more than anything. So, given that I was there at one point, I can see why the reactions are so extreme, if you entrench yourself in one viewpoint. It becomes a personal battle with other posters, as much as anything. When you have utter bell ends like Sammsky1 on either side of the divide, it's obvious why tempers become flared.

Back then, I was just fed up after the whole Mourinho era etc, and I didn't look at the bigger picture at the shit-show that Ole inherited. When Bruno came in, I obviously changed my stance and took a step back and appreciated the positive influence that Ole was having. I was relatively happy with last season, with the low points being our heavy defeat to Spurs, early CL exit and EL Final defeat. However, I could still see some steady progress.

I just feel now after the additions of Sancho and Varane, we need to kick on. Anything less than looking like proper title challengers and a respectable run in Europe, really isn't satisfactory imo. Obviously it's subjective regarding what both of those look like, but finishing say 8 or 9 points off the top would be progress, as would a run to the QF in Europe. Obviously the PL and CL will have some serious contenders, but that's where we need to aim to be.

After 3.5 years (at the end of the season) in charge and hundreds of millions of investment, the excuses have to stop. If we look miles off the league and get humiliated, in Europe then he has to go. We can't keep doing this dance where we say "he just needs a player for x position to really push on". Yes, he needed a better team, but he's been clearly backed at this point. Unfortunately, our rivals are going to strengthen every year too, despite some moaning about it. That's where the top managers stand out from the others; they need to buy, yes, but also use what they have and their clearly superior coaching methods to turn a team into winners. We can't just keep saying Ole needs to buy, buy, buy! It's a ludicrous notion and all it does is shifts the goal posts
- now we have; yeah sure we got a RW and CB, but City got Grealish and Chelsea got Lukaku. I mean, yes our rivals are also entitled to enter the transfer market. This is the attitude of some, and it means they'll constantly lower the expectations for Ole, and find a plethora of excuses for any shortcomings.

In saying all that, I feel super positive about the season ahead and have done for a while now. I think when everyone is fit, we'll surprise people. I expect Ole to improve, and the team to improve, especially in specific areas regarding our football. I envisage a good season and a title push. A trophy would also be highly desirable.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Never did both our FBs push up. We mostly had 3+1 at the back when attacking. Cavani and Ibra are quite different. Cavani relies a lot more on movement than Zlatan ever did.

Mou played McT for his height (and he didnt play as Much as you're thinking he did) and you rarely saw McT support in the box. Fred hardly played under Mou, and even when he did, he played a more restricted role rather than a "dog off his leash" role under Ole (I prefer DMs to play with some discipline fwiw).

You'd never have a player like Bruno under Mou for obvious reasons, and I doubt he'd ever play a non-physically imposing figure as the #9 as well

He did play Benzema there quite a bit and had Ozil and Oscar in the Bruno role for a while. The fullback point is a good one though I can't really recall as well. We were playing young and Shaw most of the time I'm guessing and they could both get done for pace quite easily. Anyways even taking all you say to be true I wouldn't say they are polar opposites. Interesting to see what the rest of the caf thinks though.

 

[RedSky]

I'd agree that LVG to Mourinho was polar opposites but i don't think that describes Mourinho and Ole tbh.

For one they both wanted Maguire, both played Lindelof, Cavani is pretty similar to Ibra. Matic, Mctom, Fred and Pogba all feature heavily for both.

I'd say the only difference between them is in the forward players where Mourinho liked his front players to defend a bit more than Ole who gives them more freedom. Having said that Ole does love him some Dan James.

They both play a 4-2-3-1 mainly and almost always have two midfielders shielding the back 4.

Both don't really play a possession game and prefer attacking on the counter.

Fred barely played for Jose. He sat on the bench for a long period before he was rightly fecked off out the club. Same scenario with McTominay who was barely used and was mainly sat on the bench.

It was Fellaini/Matic/Herrera/Pogba that started most of Jose games in midfield. Lindelof also barely played for Jose, ironically, it was when Jose started to play Lindelof that our results tailed off and our poor form started which eventually resulted in him being sacked. You could argue that they set their teams up in a similar fashion, although Jose preferred brute strength over agility (something Ole prefers). But we play a more expansive game under Ole, as demonstrated by the amount of 5+ goal games we've had with him. We didn't have one game in any competition where we scored more than 5 goals under Jose. The team mentality under Jose was very different, he also preferred more experienced players, whereas with Ole we've gone for a very youthful attack (exception of Cavani) and an experienced backline (exception of AWB and possibly Henderson). Jose was a far more defensive coach for us. Ole thinks long term with the majority of his signings whereas Jose was and is a small term Manager.

I don't think they're polar opposites, but the difference between the two is pretty clear. Ole is by far our most attacking Manager since Sir Alex retired. Jose one of our most defensive.

 

[OleBoiii]

I would hope that as the season levels out, the reactions will become far more rational whether we win, lose or draw. Having dramatic OTT reactions after every good/bad result, only serves to fan the flames. Some posters patiently wait, frothing at the mouth, for the next result that'll give them a one-up over the other 'side'! It's all pretty mental.

I had my spell of wanting Ole out circa Oct to Dec 2019. Admittedly and regrettably, my posts about him were harsh, but they were more reactionary towards other posters, more than anything. So, given that I was there at one point, I can see why the reactions are so extreme, if you entrench yourself in one viewpoint. It becomes a personal battle with other posters, as much as anything. When you have utter bell ends like Sammsky1 on either side of the divide, it's obvious why tempers become flared.

Back then, I was just fed up after the whole Mourinho era etc, and I didn't look at the bigger picture at the shit-show that Ole inherited. When Bruno came in, I obviously changed my stance and took a step back and appreciated the positive influence that Ole was having. I was relatively happy with last season, with the low points being our heavy defeat to Spurs, early CL exit and EL Final defeat. However, I could still see some steady progress.

I just feel now after the additions of Sancho and Varane, we need to kick on. Anything less than looking like proper title challengers and a respectable run in Europe, really isn't satisfactory imo. Obviously it's subjective regarding what both of those look like, but finishing say 8 or 9 points off the top would be progress, as would a run to the QF in Europe. Obviously the PL and CL will have some serious contenders, but that's where we need to aim to be.

After 3.5 years (at the end of the season) in charge and hundreds of millions of investment, the excuses have to stop. If we look miles off the league and get humiliated, in Europe then he has to go. We can't keep doing this dance wherw we say "he just needs a player for x position to really push on". Yes, he needed a better team, but he's been clearly backed at this point. Unfortunately, our rivals are going to strengthen every year too, despite some moaning about it. That's where the top managers stand out from the others, then need to buy yes, but also use what they have and their clearly superior coaching methods to turn a team into winners. We can't just keep saying Ole needs to buy, buy, buy! It's a ludicrous notion and all it does is shifts the goal posts, now we have; yeah sure we got a RW and CB, but City got Grealish and Chelsea got Lukaku. I mean, yes our rivals are also entitled to enter the transfer market. This is the attitude of some, and it means they'll constantly lower the expectations for Ole, and find a plethora of excuses for any shortcomings.

In saying all that, I feel super positive about the season ahead and have done for a while now. I think when everyone is fit, we'll surprise people. I expect Ole to improve, and the team to improve, especially in specific areas regarding our football. I envisage a good season and a title push. A trophy would also be highly desirable.

Good post and fair play for changing your mind.

I think we have a good team now. We should at the very least be on the same level as Liverpool and Chelsea. I still think City is stronger than us and if they sign a top striker next week then I can't see us being close to catching them already this season. But anything can happen in football. I'm feeling positive, overall. I think either a title challenge or a good CL run is well within our grasp.

 

[romufc]

I would hope that as the season levels out, the reactions will become far more rational whether we win, lose or draw. Having dramatic OTT reactions after every good/bad result, only serves to fan the flames. Some posters patiently wait, frothing at the mouth, for the next result that'll give them a one-up over the other 'side'! It's all pretty mental.

I had my spell of wanting Ole out circa Oct to Dec 2019. Admittedly and regrettably, my posts about him were harsh, but they were more reactionary towards other posters, more than anything. So, given that I was there at one point, I can see why the reactions are so extreme, if you entrench yourself in one viewpoint. It becomes a personal battle with other posters, as much as anything. When you have utter bell ends like Sammsky1 on either side of the divide, it's obvious why tempers become flared.

Back then, I was just fed up after the whole Mourinho era etc, and I didn't look at the bigger picture at the shit-show that Ole inherited. When Bruno came in, I obviously changed my stance and took a step back and appreciated the positive influence that Ole was having. I was relatively happy with last season, with the low points being our heavy defeat to Spurs, early CL exit and EL Final defeat. However, I could still see some steady progress.

I just feel now after the additions of Sancho and Varane, we need to kick on. Anything less than looking like proper title challengers and a respectable run in Europe, really isn't satisfactory imo. Obviously it's subjective regarding what both of those look like, but finishing say 8 or 9 points off the top would be progress, as would a run to the QF in Europe. Obviously the PL and CL will have some serious contenders, but that's where we need to aim to be.

After 3.5 years (at the end of the season) in charge and hundreds of millions of investment, the excuses have to stop. If we look miles off the league and get humiliated, in Europe then he has to go. We can't keep doing this dance wherw we say "he just needs a player for x position to really push on". Yes, he needed a better team, but he's been clearly backed at this point. Unfortunately, our rivals are going to strengthen every year too, despite some moaning about it. That's where the top managers stand out from the others, then need to buy yes, but also use what they have and their clearly superior coaching methods to turn a team into winners. We can't just keep saying Ole needs to buy, buy, buy! It's a ludicrous notion and all it does is shifts the goal posts, now we have; yeah sure we got a RW and CB, but City got Grealish and Chelsea got Lukaku. I mean, yes our rivals are also entitled to enter the transfer market. This is the attitude of some, and it means they'll constantly lower the expectations for Ole, and find a plethora of excuses for any shortcomings.

In saying all that, I feel super positive about the season ahead and have done for a while now. I think when everyone is fit, we'll surprise people. I expect Ole to improve, and the team to improve, especially in specific areas regarding our football. I envisage a good season and a title push. A trophy would also be highly desirable.

I think we have all been through the Ole out stage when we were losing games and not having shots on target, West Ham, Newcastle spring to mind.

However; the one thing we have to credit him for is the turn around in the squad is massive. people think, oh he's spent money so he had to have done this.

LVG, Jose spent money, 2 years on Arsenal have spent money and their squad isnt looking any better.

Ole has actually built a very competitive squad, he deserves the chance to show what he can do with it. This doesn't mean he has free reign, its still manutd where aspirations are trophies.

I am less upset at the Europa league as some other fans tbh, the CL exit bothered me more.

Like you say this season has to be a proper challenge and a very good CL run, quarter finals at least. Once Varane and Sancho come in, I am hoping the football we play is better.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm not sure how to answer this. But if you think both managers' requirements in terms of player profile is even somewhat similar, I'd say you need to rewatch our older games.

Hell, Start from LVG's tenure (I'd have said Moyes but he didn't spend a lot). No two consecutive managers we've hired since Moyes have had similar play styles and that's one of the reasons why whenever a new manager comes in he replaces the entire/most of the side. And this is in addition to some of the major flops Mou and especially LVG signed

I think Jose and Ole’s style are the same. I mean Ole‘s double pivot choice is as Mourinho as it gets.

 

[United in sin]

Oh right okay, so games against PSG, Leipzig, City we relied on individual brilliance to beat them?

No tactics involved? I dont see any other managers coming 3rd, 2nd just based on individual brilliance.

I don't know how any of you fail to see that all top clubs rely on individual brilliance.. Why are Liverpool favourites how that VVD is back? Is it that he understands Klopp's tactics better?

Would Klopp be able to play the same way without the brilliance of Trent and those players?

Those were all high profile games that Solskjaer thrives in because we can sit back and counter attack while letting those sides have more possession. Against the low blocks is where Solskjaer really counts on the likes of Bruno or Pogba to provide those moments as he has no clear plan B against that sort of resistance.

We have no clear cut style of play and it's painfully obvious when you compare our passing for instance to that of teams like Liverpool, Liecester, City, Chelsea etc. Even Wolves and Spurs move the ball better than we do more often. Solskjaer is definitely more off the cuff. How often have posters mentioned smaller teams looking like prime Barca against us in games that we've struggled in during Solskjaer's time here?

We don't always collectively dominate smaller teams. The Southampton game isn't an outlier, we've seen it before. Only Pogba showed up. In many other occasions it's been Bruno having to save the day with an equalizer or winning goal even after an overall disjointed performance.

Do you remember when Chelsea beat united 3-1 in the FA cup semifinal? Lampard was already humbled twice by united. We operated with a 3-5-2 in both the games we beat them prior to that game. Chelsea switched to 3-4-3 for the semifinal and we couldn't handle them. We were thoroughly outplayed and Solskjaer had no response to Chelsea's tweak, instead maintaining the same formation throughout to no avail.

At this point I feel Bruno and Pogba are just papering over the cracks because we look bereft of any attacking/creative potency when they're not on the pitch. It's no wonder Solskjaer rarely rotates. Many will say he has nothing on the bench, but the truth is he can't get anything out of his fringe players and it's taken a toll on our starting 11 who are played to death. Bruno and Pogba have been often played right back into the team after injuries. Rashford was played to death while carrying several injuries. The man does not utilize his squad and get them to play greater than the sum of their parts like Klopp and Pep can with their squads. Can you please tell me what our plan B is 4 seasons into Solskjaer's reign?

 

[anant]

He did play Benzema there quite a bit and had Ozil and Oscar in the Bruno role for a while. The fullback point is a good one though I can't really recall as well. We were playing young and Shaw most of the time I'm guessing and they could both get done for pace quite easily. Anyways even taking all you say to be true I wouldn't say they are polar opposites. Interesting to see what the rest of the caf thinks though.

Maybe not polar opposites, but they are still very different.

I'll also add that the age profile of the team that Jose left meant that we were due a major rebuild.

Valencia, Young, Smalling, Fellaini, Lukaku, Matic, Herrera, Sanchez among others were the players that were left behind - all of whom were either on their last legs or those who didn't have a future under Ole because of their playing style.

 

[anant]

I think Jose and Ole’s style are the same. I mean Ole‘s double pivot choice is as Mourinho as it gets.

True, just like we play similar to Pep's city when they play both Rodri and Fernandinho. Or Chelsea with Kante and Jorginho or Pool with Fabinho and Henderson/Keita

Also, another similariity between Mou and Ole was that both started with 11 players including a keeper and 4 at the back as well

 

[RedSky]

I think we have all been through the Ole out stage when we were losing games and not having shots on target, West Ham, Newcastle spring to mind.

However; the one thing we have to credit him for is the turn around in the squad is massive. people think, oh he's spent money so he had to have done this.

LVG, Jose spent money, 2 years on Arsenal have spent money and their squad isnt looking any better.

Ole has actually built a very competitive squad, he deserves the chance to show what he can do with it. This doesn't mean he has free reign, its still manutd where aspirations are trophies.

I am less upset at the Europa league as some other fans tbh, the CL exit bothered me more.

Like you say this season has to be a proper challenge and a very good CL run, quarter finals at least. Once Varane and Sancho come in, I am hoping the football we play is better.

The CL Exit angered me, complacency is my buzz word as it seems to apply pretty well to us under Ole. We get a good result, then seem to believe in our own hype and get complacent and then have a poor result against fairly mediocre opposition. That's what frustrates me about our team as its happened enough times, we don't seem to learn our lesson. What has impressed me however is that we seem to be very hard to beat in the league, only 5 loses in the last 53 league games. That is a bloody good long term sign, losing games can become a nasty habit. Putting that into perspective, in Oles first 45 league games we lost 13 times.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Good post and fair play for changing your mind.

I think we have a good team now. We should at the very least be on the same level as Liverpool and Chelsea. I still think City is stronger than us and if they sign a top striker next week then I can't see us being close to catching them already this season. But anything can happen in football. I'm feeling positive, overall. I think either a title challenge or a good CL run is well within our grasp.

Cheers

I suppose, Ole certainly helped change my mind with our initial run when Bruno came in! However, I took the opportunity to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. The reality was, I was doing Ole a disservice by not grasping the monumental shit-show he inherited! When I took that step back, I appreciated the scale of his task, and made peace with the fact that making us relevant again would take time. Again, it's subjective asking how much time does he get. For me, there's no clear identifiable amount of time, and it's not really quantifiable due to numerous variables. Once there's season-on-season progress, that's ok for now. However, I expect big progress this season, as naturally the longer he's here and more he spends, the bigger the expectations become.

I think my expectations for the coming season are on par with the length of time he's been here, and money he's spent. I agree that toppling City is likely beyond this team at present, but a good challenge is certainly needed.

 

[Alex99]

True, just like we play similar to Pep's city when they play both Rodri and Fernandinho. Or Chelsea with Kante and Jorginho or Pool with Fabinho and Henderson/Keita

Also, another similariity between Mou and Ole was that both started with 11 players including a keeper and 4 at the back as well

Also "Jose" is spelt with both an 'o' and an 'e' as is "Ole".

 

[Desert Eagle]

Maybe not polar opposites, but they are still very different.

I'll also add that the age profile of the team that Jose left meant that we were due a major rebuild.

Valencia, Young, Smalling, Fellaini, Lukaku, Matic, Herrera, Sanchez among others were the players that were left behind - all of whom were either on their last legs or those who didn't have a future under Ole because of their playing style.

Yeah we went from one of the oldest average ages to one of the youngest. That is definitely a big difference if not the biggest difference between the two.

 

[romufc]

Those were all high profile games that Solskjaer thrives in because we can sit back and counter attack while letting those sides have more possession. Against the low blocks is where Solskjaer really counts on the likes of Bruno or Pogba to provide those moments as he has no plan B against that sort of resistance.

We have no clear cut style of play and it's painfully obvious when you compare our passing for instance to that of teams like Liverpool, Liecester, City, Chelsea etc. Even Wolves and Spurs move the ball better than we do more often. Solskjaer is definitely more off the cuff. How often have posters mentioned smaller teams looking like prime Barca against us in games that we've struggled in during Solskjaer's time here?

We don't always collectively dominate smaller teams. The Southampton game isn't an outlier, we've seen it before. Only Pogba showed up. In many other occasions it's been Bruno having to save the day with an equalizer or winning goal even after an overall disjointed performance.

Do you remember when Chelsea beat united 3-1 in the FA cup semifinal? Lampard was already humbled twice by united. We operated with a 3-5-2 in both the games we beat them prior to that game. Chelsea switched to 3-4-3 for the semifinal and we couldn't handle them. We were thoroughly outplayed and Solskjaer had no response to Chelsea's tweak, instead maintaining the same formation throughout to no avail.

At this point I feel Bruno and Pogba are just papering over the cracks because we look bereft of any attacking/creative potency when they're not on the pitch. It's no wonder Solskjaer rarely rotates. Many will say he has nothing on the bench, but the truth is he can't get anything out of his fringe players and it's taken a toll on our starting 11 who are played to death. Bruno and Pogba have been often played right back into the team after injuries. Rashford was played to death while carrying several injuries. The man does not utilize his squad and get them to play greater than the sum of their parts like Klopp and Pep can with their squads. Can you please tell me what our plan B is 4 seasons into Solskjaer's reign?

So what are you saying that setting up a team to counter attack needs no tactics?

I have seen Pep, Klopp and the like fail to break teams down too. I am not saying he is a tactician or the best coach we can have. All I am saying is, its nonsense to say that Ole has no tactics and relies only on individual brilliance.

You can talk about reliance on Pogba but alot on here have called him inconsistent so what is it?

Ofcourse Ole needs to improve tactically, we are all aware that our passing is poor, we definitely need to improve on that aspect of our game and imposing ourselves.

If you want to talk about rotating Bruno and then naming Klopp, please do your research, go check in the last 3 seasons how often Klopp has rotated ?
In 2018-19 these are the league games played

Salah, Allison, VVd - 38
Mane, Robertson - 36

19/20

Mane, Gini, Salah, Trent, VVD, Robertson, Firminho all played 34 league games plus

When youi have top players, not many managers rotate, You love how spurs play, go check how often Kane is rotated.

Two of the best teams in Europe Barca and Real, go check how often Ronaldo and Messi were rotated.

 

[crossy1686]

Care to elaborate?

I can find way more but I#m sure you get the picture.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[romufc]

The CL Exit angered me, complacency is my buzz word as it seems to apply pretty well to us under Ole. We get a good result, then seem to believe in our own hype and get complacent and then have a poor result against fairly mediocre opposition. That's what frustrates me about our team as its happened enough times, we don't seem to learn our lesson. What has impressed me however is that we seem to be very hard to beat in the league, only 5 loses in the last 53 league games. That is a bloody good long term sign, losing games can become a nasty habit. Putting that into perspective, in Oles first 45 league games we lost 13 times.

Agreed. This is the problem with our team and its not just the players its the fans.

We beat Leeds and then everyone thinks its a easy journey at Southampton. This is United at the moment. Ole needs to sort this mentality out in the team because alot of the players that are up when the pressure is on then drop the next game. Fred got plaudits then drops a stinker. Lindelof and Maguire the same. Bruno to some extent too.

We are hard to beat, I agree but we need to win matches and go for the juggular.

I have been saying it for a while, we struggle after brilliant results.

We put Leipzig to the sword - lost to Arsenal
We hit top of the league - lost to Sheffield United
Smashed Southampton 9-0 - Drew to Everton
We smashed Leeds - draw to Southampton

Its concerning that this is not being addressed by Ole and when we do hit a lul, we end up losing 1 game and drawing 3/4 in that run.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think we have all been through the Ole out stage when we were losing games and not having shots on target, West Ham, Newcastle spring to mind.

However; the one thing we have to credit him for is the turn around in the squad is massive. people think, oh he's spent money so he had to have done this.

LVG, Jose spent money, 2 years on Arsenal have spent money and their squad isnt looking any better.

Ole has actually built a very competitive squad, he deserves the chance to show what he can do with it. This doesn't mean he has free reign, its still manutd where aspirations are trophies.

I am less upset at the Europa league as some other fans tbh, the CL exit bothered me more.

Like you say this season has to be a proper challenge and a very good CL run, quarter finals at least. Once Varane and Sancho come in, I am hoping the football we play is better.

And it is indeed a credit to Ole that he's spent really well, for the most part. Arteta has spent quite a-bit, but Arsenal don't look like they'll improve. Under Ole, our spending has equated progess. There's absolutely no denying he's built a good team, and if he were to leave tomorrow, a new manager could easily come in and work with the squad. Ole obviously didn't quite have that luxury post-Jose.

Praising him for building a good team is fair game, but now he has to show what his management and coaching can do with this team.

I wasn't really too fussed by the EL Final defeat. Prior to the game, I had posted that even if we were to lose, it was still progress just making the final. Losing was obviously shit, but the CL exit I did find infuriating, especially that we had ourselves in such a strong position. I guess these are the kinds of things that will have to be improved upon this season, especially guarding against complacency and weirdly erratic form.

 

[romufc]

And it is indeed a credit to Ole that he's spent really well, for the most part. Arteta has spent quite a-bit, but Arsenal don't look like they'll improve. Under Ole, our spending has equated progess. There's absolutely no denying he's built a good team, and if he were to leave tomorrow, a new manager could easily come in and work with the squad. Ole obviously didn't quite have that luxury post-Jose.

Praising him for building a good team is fair game, but now he has to show what his management and coaching can do with this team.

I wasn't really too fussed by the EL Final defeat. Prior to the game, I had posted that even if we were to lose, it was still progress just making the final. Losing was obviously shit, but the CL exit I did find infuriating, especially that we had ourselves in such a strong position. I guess these are the kinds of things that will have to be improved upon this season, especially guarding against complacency and weirdly erratic form.

Yep, I remember when Ole took over he said its a 3 year rebuild. 3 years are now up, we have rebuilt and we need to see some results.

Lets be fair, no other manager would have got this much time without a trophy so, he has been given time and money, its his turn to deliver trophies now.

Mainly, I want to see either the PL or CL really.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yep, I remember when Ole took over he said its a 3 year rebuild. 3 years are now up, we have rebuilt and we need to see some results.

Lets be fair, no other manager would have got this much time without a trophy so, he has been given time and money, its his turn to deliver trophies now.

Mainly, I want to see either the PL or CL really.

Our team in that 3-year period has taken an astronomical transformation. Our first eleven when fit, will be a delicious prospect. Add to that our numerous promising youth players, either on the fringes of the first team, or excelling for the youth teams, and we look like we're in a good place. Credit to Ole for his good work in that department, as what Jose left behind was a mess. Credit too to Marcel Bout regarding our fantastic youth policy in recent years.

I think winning the PL or CL will naturally be a colossal task. However, we need to be relevant on both fronts and put up proper challenges. A QF run in the CL would be fine, and a proper title challenge. That's the next phase of progression for Ole.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I think if we swapped Kante for one of our CMs we’d go from having a worse squad than Chelsea to a better one.

I actually think our squad is now slightly better than Chelsea’s (minus the central midfield area) with the additions of Sancho and Varane. Kante going to Chelsea unchallenged in 2016 is still annoying though. Considering we were in the CL that year and they weren’t and our mf options were Schneiderlin and Fellaini

 

[Mickson]

I actually think our squad is now slightly better than Chelsea’s (minus the central midfield area) with the additions of Sancho and Varane. Kante going to Chelsea unchallenged in 2016 is still annoying though. Considering we were in the CL that year and they weren’t and our mf options were Schneiderlin and Fellaini

I just listened to Talk of the Devils, according to Andy Mitten we were in for him when he played in France, but United decided it's not what was needed........ and he signed for Leicester instead.

 

[Stacks]

I weren't lying

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tra...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

#	club	Expenditure	Arrivals	Income	Departures	Balance
1	Manchester City	£1.34bn	207	£418.51m	202	£-919.25m
2	FC Barcelona	£1.24bn	127	£790.16m	122	£-453.53m
3	Chelsea FC	£1.24bn	288	£896.76m	284	£-339.71m
4	Manchester United	£1.20bn	133	£335.39m	134	£-868.96m
5	Juventus FC	£1.14bn	436	£844.25m	429	£-293.47m
6	Paris Saint-Germain	£1.02bn	142	£395.19m	128	£-625.86m
7	Atlético de Madrid	£936.58m	178	£821.34m	168	£-115.24m
8	Real Madrid	£878.09m	118	£776.66m	111	£-101.43m
9	Arsenal FC	£839.85m	140	£288.81m	143	£-551.04m
10	AS Monaco	£816.71m	262	£856.26m	257	£39.54m
11	Liverpool FC	£814.55m	160	£564.14m	158	£-250.41m
12	Inter Milan	£811.97m	463	£611.91m	458	£-200.06m
13	AS Roma	£786.24m	422	£721.67m	411	£-64.57m
14	AC Milan	£705.82m	337	£283.65m	326	£-422.16m
15	Tottenham Hotspur	£659.70m	123	£484.72m	135	£-174.98m
16	Borussia Dortmund	£648.66m	114	£747.34m	108	£98.68m
17	SSC Napoli	£639.05m	336	£463.33m	317	£-175.72m
18	Everton FC	£636.96m	164	£324.68m	164	£-312.28m
19	Bayern Munich	£582.21m	86	£329.85m	84	£-252.36m

 

[Robbie Boy]

I actually think our squad is now slightly better than Chelsea’s (minus the central midfield area) with the additions of Sancho and Varane. Kante going to Chelsea unchallenged in 2016 is still annoying though. Considering we were in the CL that year and they weren’t and our mf options were Schneiderlin and Fellaini

Aye, I prefer our first eleven to Chelsea too, but it's certainly subjective and open to interpretation. On overall squad quality, I feel they're ahead of us though. Re Kante: I'm pretty sure hearing before that we were in for him, but he wanted Chelsea.

 

[United in sin]

So what are you saying that setting up a team to counter attack needs no tactics?

I have seen Pep, Klopp and the like fail to break teams down too. I am not saying he is a tactician or the best coach we can have. All I am saying is, its nonsense to say that Ole has no tactics and relies only on individual brilliance.

You can talk about reliance on Pogba but alot on here have called him inconsistent so what is it?

Ofcourse Ole needs to improve tactically, we are all aware that our passing is poor, we definitely need to improve on that aspect of our game and imposing ourselves.

If you want to talk about rotating Bruno and then naming Klopp, please do your research, go check in the last 3 seasons how often Klopp has rotated ?
In 2018-19 these are the league games played

Salah, Allison, VVd - 38
Mane, Robertson - 36

19/20

Mane, Gini, Salah, Trent, VVD, Robertson, Firminho all played 34 league games plus

When youi have top players, not many managers rotate, You love how spurs play, go check how often Kane is rotated.

Two of the best teams in Europe Barca and Real, go check how often Ronaldo and Messi were rotated.

I never said the man doesn't have tactics, I said he's limited in his selection of tactics and has no plan B other than hoping one of his big players will bail him out, hence why he plays them so much. To add to that, he dithers over making subs way too much


I don't fully disagree with you, but fitness withstanding, goalkeepers and center backs will generally get more minutes than others as those are positions that tend to be fixed more often than not unless you have a squad as deep as City's.

Maguire gets to start/play as many minutes as possible, even in domestic cup games. He's on par with a fully fit VVD in this respect. TAA and Robertson are key to Liverpool's attack so fair play to include them.

You've given me the appearances, but how about the minutes?

From the list of players you've mentioned barring the goalie and CB, only Robertson has averaged more PL minutes over the last three seasons than Bruno amassed in his first full season (3110 mins). The following are the average minutes based on each of the last three PL seasons as per Whoscored:

Salah- 3078

Mane- 2885

Robertson- 3239

TAA- 2892

Firmino- 2825

Kane- 2701

I've added a few more PL stars for more context

Jorginho- 2521

Sterling- 2658

Kante- 2325

Vardy- 2871

Bruno's tally of 3110 mins in the league last season has only been bested 6 times in the last three seasons out of a total possible of 30 going by every player mentioned in this post.

In the 6 years KDB has been at city he's only managed over 3000 minutes once, and it was still short of Bruno's tally from last season when the general consensus was that he was burned out from being overplayed. KDB managed 3085 in 2017/18

 

[croadyman]

My gut feeling is that our board are still not going to judge him properly until he has that number 9 and DM in place

 

[Garethw]

Yep, I remember when Ole took over he said its a 3 year rebuild. 3 years are now up, we have rebuilt and we need to see some results.

Lets be fair, no other manager would have got this much time without a trophy so, he has been given time and money, its his turn to deliver trophies now.

Mainly, I want to see either the PL or CL really.

100% this. He’s also said today that further signings are unlikely and that he’s very happy with the squad. He has zero excuses now. He has to start winning major trophies.

 

[croadyman]

100% this. He’s also said today that further signings are unlikely and that he’s very happy with the squad. He has zero excuses now. He has to start winning major trophies.

I keep praying that happy with the squad line is to show Atletico/Rennes/Wolves we aren't desperate and is purely a negotiation tactic in order to keep the price down for any of our top 3 targets before the window shuts

 

[Bobcat]

I would hope that as the season levels out, the reactions will become far more rational whether we win, lose or draw. Having dramatic OTT reactions after every good/bad result, only serves to fan the flames. Some posters patiently wait, frothing at the mouth, for the next result that'll give them a one-up over the other 'side'! It's all pretty mental.

I had my spell of wanting Ole out circa Oct to Dec 2019. Admittedly and regrettably, my posts about him were harsh, but they were more reactionary towards other posters, more than anything. So, given that I was there at one point, I can see why the reactions are so extreme, if you entrench yourself in one viewpoint. It becomes a personal battle with other posters, as much as anything. When you have utter bell ends like Sammsky1 on either side of the divide, it's obvious why tempers become flared.

Back then, I was just fed up after the whole Mourinho era etc, and I didn't look at the bigger picture at the shit-show that Ole inherited. When Bruno came in, I obviously changed my stance and took a step back and appreciated the positive influence that Ole was having. I was relatively happy with last season, with the low points being our heavy defeat to Spurs, early CL exit and EL Final defeat. However, I could still see some steady progress.

I just feel now after the additions of Sancho and Varane, we need to kick on. Anything less than looking like proper title challengers and a respectable run in Europe, really isn't satisfactory imo. Obviously it's subjective regarding what both of those look like, but finishing say 8 or 9 points off the top would be progress, as would a run to the QF in Europe. Obviously the PL and CL will have some serious contenders, but that's where we need to aim to be.

After 3.5 years (at the end of the season) in charge and hundreds of millions of investment, the excuses have to stop. If we look miles off the league and get humiliated, in Europe then he has to go. We can't keep doing this dance where we say "he just needs a player for x position to really push on". Yes, he needed a better team, but he's been clearly backed at this point. Unfortunately, our rivals are going to strengthen every year too, despite some moaning about it. That's where the top managers stand out from the others; they need to buy, yes, but also use what they have and their clearly superior coaching methods to turn a team into winners. We can't just keep saying Ole needs to buy, buy, buy! It's a ludicrous notion and all it does is shifts the goal posts
- now we have; yeah sure we got a RW and CB, but City got Grealish and Chelsea got Lukaku. I mean, yes our rivals are also entitled to enter the transfer market. This is the attitude of some, and it means they'll constantly lower the expectations for Ole, and find a plethora of excuses for any shortcomings.

In saying all that, I feel super positive about the season ahead and have done for a while now. I think when everyone is fit, we'll surprise people. I expect Ole to improve, and the team to improve, especially in specific areas regarding our football. I envisage a good season and a title push. A trophy would also be highly desirable.

Good post mate, especially the first paragraph is spot on.

Judging a manager by a game to game basis is fecking mental. This isn't FIFA, tennis or even chess. Of course a manager can influence a game to some extent, but once hes selected his first XI and laid out the game plan his influence over the final result is pretty limited

Also agree with the rest of your post. I've backed Ole since day 1, but he has to show progression, especially considering the quality we brought in this summer. If we somehow end up doing worse or about the same as last year then its time to part ways and look for a new manager

 

[Robbie Boy]

Good post mate, especially the first paragraph is spot on.

Judging a manager by a game to game basis is fecking mental. This isn't FIFA, tennis or even chess. Of course a manager can influence a game to some extent, but once hes selected his first XI and laid out the game plan his influence over the final result is pretty limited

Also agree with the rest of your post. I've backed Ole since day 1, but he has to show progression, especially considering the quality we brought in this summer. If we somehow end up doing worse or about the same as last year then its time to part ways and look for a new manager

Cheers mate.

I went through my own phase of being an irrational cockwomble regarding Ole, but I've backed him pretty much since near the end of December 2019.

My posts back then were totally shitty and I hold my hands up to that. I wouldn't try exonerate my actions, but I guess the high when Ole came in and that night in Paris really lifted the whole club. I was absolutely loving life under Ole, but then it all seemed to go flat and dull. By the time he was appointed permanent manager, I was fairly non-fussed, if the truth be told. Going into the next season, we just looked terrible and I lost faith. My whole outlook on the club had been soured after Jose's bullshit, and as I said, I totally underestimated the job Ole took on. In hindsight, I should have taken that step back to look at things from a holistic perspective sooner, but unfortunately I got carried away with wanting him out. Fair play to anyone that backed him through that rough patch and all the other bumps!

Yup, the reactions after every match need to become more balanced. All the hyperbolic nonsense just causes more arguments. At the end of the day, he literally just signed a new contract and signed Sancho and Varane, so he's going nowhere. Everyone should just accept he's here for the season - barring a catastrophe of epic proportions - back him, and see how we fare when we have close to our best side available.

 

[Mainoldo]

True, just like we play similar to Pep's city when they play both Rodri and Fernandinho. Or Chelsea with Kante and Jorginho or Pool with Fabinho and Henderson/Keita

Also, another similariity between Mou and Ole was that both started with 11 players including a keeper and 4 at the back as well

Yeah if you skint real hard when you watch us. It’s like watching prime time Barcelona.

Also sometimes I look at Ole and he looks abit like Fergie

 

[Che Guevara]

I'm not sold on Ole. Very nice guy but l honestly think he is too weak to succeed in the PL

 

[Ludens the Red]

Aye, I prefer our first eleven to Chelsea too, but it's certainly subjective and open to interpretation. On overall squad quality, I feel they're ahead of us though. Re Kante: I'm pretty sure hearing before that we were in for him, but he wanted Chelsea.

Yuh it’s close and can be argued either way to be fair. Definitely not a significant difference enough to be claiming “we need x,y,z signings to compete with Chelsea” .

 

[AneRu]

I'm not sold on Ole. Very nice guy but l honestly think he is too weak to succeed in the PL

Tbf with a couple of top three finishes in two and a half seasons some might say he has already succeeded in the PL even though I know what you mean.

I am of the opinion that Ole has to bring in a tactically astute assistant or first team coach to help him but he has done well so far imo given where the club was in the Jose era. He is also competing against an oil state powered mean machine and as shown by Liverpool you need to do something pretty special to beat them to the League.

He has made some of the decisions I have not agreed with during the rebuild and been exposed a bit where it mattered most but he still has my support.

 

[Bebestation]

Tbf with a couple of top three finishes in two and a half seasons some might say he has already succeeded in the PL even though I know what you mean.

I am of the opinion that Ole has to bring in a tactically astute assistant or first team coach to help him but he has done well so far imo given where the club was in the Jose era. He is also competing against an oil state powered mean machine and as shown by Liverpool you need to do something pretty special to beat them to the League.

He has made some of the decisions I have not agreed with during the rebuild and been exposed a bit where it mattered most but he still has my support.

This makes sense to me too.

The Queiroz tactical approach helping SAF etc.

 

[Bebestation]

Yep, I remember when Ole took over he said its a 3 year rebuild. 3 years are now up, we have rebuilt and we need to see some results.

Lets be fair, no other manager would have got this much time without a trophy so, he has been given time and money, its his turn to deliver trophies now.

Mainly, I want to see either the PL or CL really.

I disagree with this.

3 years are not up. He took over as a care taker manager in 2018 and signed a contract to be our full manager on 2019.

3 years is 2022. 3 full seasons are 2022.

I mean - its personally easy to see players like Haaland lined up for the start of next year isn't it? Potentially a new CDM be that camavinga, tchoumeni or Rice? A competition for Wan Bissaka like Trippier who is a title winner proven for La Liga etc.

Like why don't we finish him do the rebuild because his rebuild has been wonderful to see hasn't it? Varane and Sancho? We are arguably 3-4 players left from having a complete team to squad for the first time since SAF 2006-08. That's arguably one transfer window away.

I don't get this impatience, because we are progressing. As others have said- he looks to be the guy that can build the boat but that doesn't exactly mean he can sail it. However, Lets just finish him building the boat first and find our driver afterwards - a half built boat is only going to sink bit by bit.

*Also the bit about managers wouldn't have got this time without trophy is wrong. Van Gaal won the FA Cup and got sacked for not reaching CL. Jose won some cups and got sacked for not reaching the CL and losing his teams mentality. Whether it be right or wrong, Ole will be sacked for not progressing and achieving to his expectations.

 

[romufc]

I disagree with this.

3 years are not up. He took over as a care taker manager in 2018 and signed a contract to be our full manager on 2019.

3 years is 2022. 3 full seasons are 2022.

I mean - its personally easy to see players like Haaland lined up for the start of next year isn't it? Potentially a new CDM be that camavinga, tchoumeni or Rice? A competition for Wan Bissaka like Trippier who is a title winner proven for La Liga etc.

Like why don't we finish him do the rebuild because his rebuild has been wonderful to see hasn't it? Varane and Sancho? We are arguably 3-4 players left from having a complete team to squad for the first time since SAF 2006-08. That's arguably one transfer window away.

I don't get this impatience, because we are progressing. As others have said- he looks to be the guy that can build the boat but that doesn't exactly mean he can sail it. However, Lets just finish him building the boat first and find our driver afterwards - a half built boat is only going to sink bit by bit.

*Also the bit about managers wouldn't have got this time without trophy is wrong. Van Gaal won the FA Cup and got sacked for not reaching CL. Jose won some cups and got sacked for not reaching the CL and losing his teams mentality. Whether it be right or wrong, Ole will be sacked for not progressing and achieving to his expectations.

Apologies, I should have worded that better, I did actually mean 3 seasons are up as in this is the season kind of thing. We have to win something or show real progress like Semis of UCL and a proper title challenge.

This is the problem though, we are not fully backing him, I just want us to back him one window and say here is the CDM, go and win us the title. Chelsea and City are ahead and they add players to them, we are behind and still after every window are short 1/2 players.

Well he did say its a 3 year project to mount a title challenge, this is the 3rd year and I expect a title challenge.