So cup games are more important than league games?
I mean Ole has literally beaten Tuchel in cup games and knocked him out...
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I mean Ole has literally beaten Tuchel in cup games and knocked him out...
What he's saying is Solskjaer often relies way too much on individual brilliance to win games rather than the strength of his managerial style and tactics. I don't know how you fail to see that
Oh right okay, so games against PSG, Leipzig, City we relied on individual brilliance to beat them?
No tactics involved? I dont see any other managers coming 3rd, 2nd just based on individual brilliance.
I don't know how any of you fail to see that all top clubs rely on individual brilliance.. Why are Liverpool favourites how that VVD is back? Is it that he understands Klopp's tactics better?
Would Klopp be able to play the same way without the brilliance of Trent and those players?
Because one match is knockout and the other is not.
Not undermining Klopp's coaching because he's genuinely a world class coach, but Liverpool struggled to break into the top 4 last season because van Dijk got injured. Individual quality matters which is why Klopp broke the bank to sign him and Alisson. And take out Salah from the team and it looks grave for them.
Ole relying on Bruno or Pogba is no different. There's definitely a way that Ole prefers to play. Saying there's no tactics just vibes, and it's all about biding time till Bruno finds a wonder pass or goal is disingenuous at best, extremely stupid at worst.
One match is knockout and has immediate consequences.
The first PSG game last year, Ole outwitted Tuchel for sure. It doesn't mean overall Ole is better than Tuchel but in that game Tuchel was comfortably second best.
To win major titles, or to celebrate 3rd and 2nd positions in the league and get beaten always in the cups against lesser teams? two different things
Exactly, this is why managers want the players as well. When it comes to big games, when two top coaches are setting their teams up, its individual brilliance which most likely will win a game.
This is why City have signed Grealish. This is why they want Kane.
Its very lazy from fans to say, Ole relies on individual brilliance.
I have never said Ole is a better manager than anyone. Any manager can beat anyone on their day. Its not about a one of game. With Ole, its the smaller sides we struggle to beat because we are lazy and complacent. In the big games, we are up for it, the difference is CIty, Chelsea, Liverpool are up for it in every game they play so they get results.
You love telling people to go and support other teams don’t you. Go and support Chelsea , now go and support PSG.. Proper top red.
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He doesn’t learn from any mistakes. We literally have exactly the same problems as we did last year.
we will not win anything of note with Solskjaer in charge regardless of how much money is spent.
we will not win anything of note with Solskjaer in charge regardless of how much money is spent.
I agree with that, a point can be made about his shortcomings without the need for phrases like "failed Cardiff manager" etc. Conversely, some of his stauch defenders can go totally OTT in the other direction, and say he is doing a "great job" etc. Both groups wind each other up with needless hyperbole.
If he were as bad as his biggest critics make out, he would be long sacked, and if he were as good as his biggest defenders make out, we would play better football and have some silverware. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
I've noticed that his pre-season planning has been rather bad during his time here.
We are pretty much guaranteed to drop points in the first few games of the season.
I think he's too lenient on the players. Not only does he give some of them extended time off for the summer, he lets them take their sweet time to get fit when they return. Sort it out.
We are pretty much guaranteed to drop points in the first few games of the season.
I think he's too lenient on the players. Not only does he give some of them extended time off for the summer, he lets them take their sweet time to get fit when they return. Sort it out.
We might not win anything whoever we put in charge, the way teams like City, Chelsea and PSG have unlimited amount of money.
I'd rather have a person i like, Ole, who is building a team i like, than change every 2nd year and not getting any better.
What he has to learn is in a two legged tie, do not leave us in a hole after the first leg, so even though we win the second leg it actually doesn't mean anything.
I had a suspicion, so I spent a few minutes digging. These are the stats from Fergie's last 6 seasons in charge. Results after the first 4 PL games:
2007-08: 1 win, 2 draws, 1 loss
2008-09: 1 win, 2 draws, 1 loss
2009-10: 3 wins, 1 loss
2010-11: 2 wins, 2 draws
2011-12: 4 wins
2012-13: 3 wins, 1 loss
Even with Fergie in charge in our most successful era, our starts were never great. The only time we managed to win the first 4 games we also failed to win the league. And after the worst start on that list, we arguably had our best season ever.
Moral of the story: the first month of the PL is a bit weird. The players aren't fit, new players need to adjust and odd results always happen.
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True, like Klopp couldn't win anything as a result of those clubs.
Our net spend been higher than Chelsea and PSG for a while so please stop pleading poverty
He gives players the chance to prove themselves and that's the problem.
We all saw Daniel James starting in the first game (when many knew he wouldn't be good enough) and we were still disappointed at his performance even if it was a win.
Dropped next game.
The next game Martial gets a chance over the Greenwood who had a good ST's game in the match before. Matic is playing over Mctominay who is apparently injured but still comes on as a sub.
Matic and Martial will likely be dropped next game.
His man management is really good but has a little element of softness that you could argue that SAF for example didn't have.
If we had a fully fit and ready squad going the first game of the season it would help.
How is it that Lukaku or Grealish, who were signed later than Varane or Sancho, are now fit enough to start games but our players aren't?
Bit unfair when covid-19 has impacted significantly on preseason since he has been manager.
Bingo I was going to add that next. Chelsea and us aren't too dissimilar in terms of spending
It's the same for everyone. Not just Ole.
City lost their opening game and looked rusty.
I don't care about his past as Cardiff manager, winning titles in Norway, etc. If he can be a bit more proactive with making changes mid game then I'd be happy. Like in the last game you saw the useless Martial, the clumsy Fred, the tired Matic in the first half. And yet we went into the 2nd half with the exact same players. Sort it out ffs. Not only Ole, but Carrick, Phelan, McKenna. Why didn't anyone suggest changes to be made directly? feck it, sub someone in the first half if you have to. I think it doesnt matter if we have a good depth now, we'll be waiting too fecking long to make changes. Maybe half time is the only time where the players receive instructions because it does look that way. Make more proactive subs, less bending over to the opponents by trusting the same, struggling players to play on the pitch for ages. We do have answers when we're struggling to score goals, it's by subbing the shit performing players and not during the last 15-20 minutes.
Liverpool/Chelsea didn't *shrugs*
Neither did United *shrugs*
Drawing any long-term conclusions from such a tiny sample of games is, obviously, stupid.
I meant dropping points, not losing.
Of course it's just the start and it will probably even out over the course the season, but it'll be nice to win a few on the trot at the very start for a change.
Maybe, maybe not.
My point is that the first month of the PL generally provides the least useful snapshot of how the season will unfold. It's all very random. Like RVP said(paraphrased): "The first 4-5 games are always brutal. It's all about surviving them, while not dropping a needless amount of points."
I get your point, but I just don't like players (key ones especially) taking up to game week 3 or 4 to be fully ready. That's like 10% of the season gone due to poor fitness.
The boss needs to be stricter on this.
Agreed. Look at the over reaction this season already, win 5-1 and its all great best team this that, draw to Southmapton and its all doom and gloom.
I honestly think Ole needs to be ruthless, he can be a better manager if he stops being so loyal.
Matic is done in the PL and Varane should come straight in.
There's no point drilling down into SAF's stats when the benchmark for winning the league is so much higher now. Back then the target was 85-90 points to win the league. But Liverpool and City have upped the ante, now the target is 95+ points. I feel confident in saying that if SAF were around now he'd do whatever he thought was needed to get those extra 5 to 10 points, which would almost certainly include starting more strongly.
95(+) points for the winner has happened 3 times in the last 5 years. It's too early to conclude that this is the new standard. Personally, I think we've just witnessed two very good and consistent teams peaking around the same time.
Unless City strengthens even further, I would not be surprised if 85-90 points is back to being the standard.
Or to put it another way, it's been at least 93 points for 4 of the last 5 seasons. And City managed 86 even with the same wreckage of a preseason that we had. Its not outlandish to suggest that, had they had a normal preseason, they'd have added a few more points to that total.
It may well be that the points total is lower again this year, but if you were a manager, it would be foolish to plan to win the league with 85 points.
The net spend and gross spend will always be higher if we shift from one manager to another with polar opposites playing styles though.
You think Ole and Mourinho have polar opposite playing styles?
Night and day!Care to elaborate?
I'm not sure how to answer this. But if you think both managers' requirements in terms of player profile is even somewhat similar, I'd say you need to rewatch our older games.
Hell, Start from LVG's tenure (I'd have said Moyes but he didn't spend a lot). No two consecutive managers we've hired since Moyes have had similar play styles and that's one of the reasons why whenever a new manager comes in he replaces the entire/most of the side. And this is in addition to some of the major flops Mou and especially LVG signed
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