VDB was hopefully the final casualty of our disastrous transfer approach under Woodward. Here's hoping that Murtough, Judge and Fletcher won't let this situation come about again. Ole never really wanted him, and gave Woodward the thumbs up because feck all else was being done last summer prior to deadline day and we needed at least one new addition.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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The worst thing is we never sub Fernandes so he hardly gets to come on but hopefully he gets some games over the busy few months ahead. I was personally a fan of him during Ajax but as with most of our midfielders recently he hasn’t performed at United - reminds me of Herrera without the press.
Visions of the Titus Bramble vs Zidane in defence thread.
Whatever makes you sleep better lad, so you’re saying the agent isn’t actually the issue it’s the playing time of their client. . .
So feel free to slander the club, in the form of ‘broken promises’, so long as your player isn’t actually good enough to get into the team.
What a silly take, 2 mouthy agents, end of.
EDIT: Silly*
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There will always be transfers that don't work out. Best you can hope for is a 2 out of 3 success rate.
According to his agent several clubs across Europe have expressed an interest in buying him but United blocked all attempts - very strange, he cant even get a game when MCT has had an operation. A wasted talented player. Recoup our money and let him move on Ffs.
I would be very surprised if he's prepared to wait that long, he wanted to move in this window but Ole blocked it for no reason
Maybe the reason is he's in his plans? No that's out of the question.
So why hasn't he played a single minute in these first three games then even with McTominay injured in the last one
Yeah that's the head scratcher. But all the noises coming out of Ole and the club has been that he's in the plans. So his blocking Donny's move makes sense from that perspective. Let's see where this goes I guess. If he still hasn't found a place in the team by January then yeah we should let him go and it would make the failure to sell him this window for another midfielder look disastrous in hindsight.
The only thing I can imagine it being is that Donny still isn't quite up to the pace with the speed or the style of play. Moving from a highly structured team like Ajax to a quite unstructured one in United (and this isn't a criticism of United - there's pros and cons to both approaches) is maybe proving a bigger change than Donny expected.
Its a big change in mindset and style whereas Donny I think was always a tidy player who took the ball and kept it moving with the knowledge that if he kept doing that Ajax's overall structure would create chances on its own. Whereas at United there's more responsibility to be more spontaneously creative. There's not a set pattern, each player has to look up to see what's open and what is the best chance of moving the ball forward. On one hand its very hard to do so under pressure as you have to know very well the tendencies of your teammates individually not based on set positional runs, but when it works out you just blow teams apart scoring for fun very quickly. I often feel he gets into good positions but then doesn't make the killer pass our system requires him to in preference for the safer sideways or backwards pass which was what he was asked to do at Ajax but not here.
I bet he can play a better DM role than both Fred and McT. He has played number 6 at Ajax. It is all about giving confidence to player.
Otherwise he is another Mata in the making, a player of the season and Champions league winner with Chelsea, ruined at United for all those years.
Otherwise he is another Mata in the making, a player of the season and Champions league winner with Chelsea, ruined at United for all those years.
Yeah, I read in Dutch media just now that he would have liked to leave and could have gone on loan to Everton, but that Ole blocked the move. It also said that there was interest in him in Germany and Italy, but not which clubs were involved or how concrete that interest was.
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Yeah he's never gonna ever get any confidence if Ole isn't prepared to give him an opportunity to prove himself, also I wouldn't count playing with the other fringe players in the League Cup either because you can't judge a player properly like that
The agent didn't say anything about "broken promises". You don't know what you're talking about.
Whatever makes you sleep better lad, so you’re saying the agent isn’t actually the issue it’s the playing time of their client. . .
So feel free to slander the club, in the form of ‘broken promises’, so long as your player isn’t actually good enough to get into the team.
What a silly take, 2 mouthy agents, end of.
EDIT: Silly*
Which better deal is he trying to get by speaking out right after the window closes? Where did he bad mouth the club, like Raiola has? (he hasn't).
He is very inexperienced in the 6 role, has only played there handful of times in a much weaker dutch league. I don't think Ole will risk playing him there in the premier league with points at stake. His natural instincts are to play one touch football and make forward runs, he is much better suited to a box to box role.
Good post, man. That's how i think when watching him. After he made short pass, he often looked confused of why ours opted to (for no reason) pass to other side, instead of them working closely on his circle side (making short pass, one-two).
Sick to death of cretins on here who put on the blinkers for players they like over those they don’t.
“ Disappointed, but also assuring for him, so that he will get his chance, and will get his minutes, but this will become clear in due time. He's been promised that before, but we came to a clear agreement about this with the club, so we have all faith that it will happen now."
What are you on about trying to get better deals for? I said they’re both mouthy agents, this isn’t the first time VdBs agent has spoken out.
He’s made public a “clear agreement” with the club, stating they’ve “promised that before”, so who’s that aimed to put pressure on? . . . The club.
The mental gymnastics you’ve attempted to pull further prove no one really gives a damn what agents actually say, they pick & choose which agents/clients to chastise.
VanDeBank defending Van de Beek, no surprises there but learn what paraphrasing is before getting so upset.
On the other hand: if Van de Beek indeed was promised a certain amount of playtime, and if United is now both not honouring that promise and not allowing Van de Beek to go elsewhere, then that's not very nice from the club. I mean, sure, they may have concluded that Van de Beek is too poor to get more minutes; but why then not let him go?
I know that the written contract has the final word and trumps everything; but there is also a moral side to things, and if Van de Beek and/or his people feel that United is violating that, then I don't see the issue with them going public with it - most likely after having had those discussions internally.and getting nowhere with that.
In the end though, the agent wasn't actually that negative at all; you're exaggerating quite a bit with your responses here. Here was the full quote:
Both paragraphs end on a positive note.
What exactly am I exaggerating? I said his agent is outspoken. VdB has been here barely over a year with sub par performances & his agent has spoken at least twice about his playing time.
You’re trying to add meat to the bones of this argument with assumptions which is why your first paragraph is ultimately irrelevant because as fans on a forum we don’t know what has or hasn’t actually been promised; what we do have to go on our the words of his agent about a supposed “agreement” he has now made public.
A moral side to things that United are ‘violating’? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt & ask for clarification here because I’m not sure how you or anyone else can say United are violating anything with a player who ultimately hasn’t proven better than what we already have. He’s been told he’ll get opportunities this season, you know the season that is 3 games old.
‘wasn’t actually that negative’, did I speak on the negativity? You’re doing what many often do on here & positioning another members argument as something it isn’t.
His agent is a gobshite, like other agents, yet I don’t see the same defence in other instances.
So you weren't being very negative about the agent in this post?
And you didn't call the agent a 'gobshite' just above? Cause that seems pretty negative to me, and pretty exaggerated considering what he actually said (see the post by @lost7 I quoted earlier).
And we do have some idea of what has been promised since the agent mentioned it. As long as the club aren't disagreeing, there is likely some truth to that comment about a promise of minutes. And in that case, if United don't honour the promise nor let Van de Beek go, then that's not a good look on them (that's the moral side). Seems pretty simple to me.
Finally, don't confuse me with others, I don't mind agents in general. They're doing their work, like everyone in the business.
How is a player expected to contribute and get better without the manager showing faith and getting Donny to play some games together. Pogba with almost 5 seasons is not fully consistent and yet a lot of fans expect Donny to hit the ground running without any run of games. This transfer, if it fails has to be on ole.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Has Donny ever actually started more then three games in a row in the league? I feel like whenever he plays in the league he comes on with five minutes to go every time.
I don’t think he is this world class midfielder but he’d certainly be a better option then continually persisting with McFred.
This truly is tiresome.
So let’s say I am being ‘negative’ & move on. Does it make him less outspoken? No. Does it make VdB’s performances better? No.
You’re trying to subvert my initial post; I’m not sure why it’s relevant whether I’m being ‘positive’ or ‘negative’ about his agent? It’s nonsense so let’s say I am ‘negative’ so you can stick to the topic.
I quoted him, but apparently his own words are an exaggeration of. . . his own words. . .
Again, remember what my original point was, no one said he wasn’t complimentary at some point - I was focused on the ‘promises’. You’re arguing with yourself.
So anytime someone says something about ‘the club’, ‘the club’ has to issue a statement disagreeing?
OgS has already said they’ll be games for the guy. We’re 3 games into the season, it’s hardly a time for his ‘gobshite’ agent to be talking of interest & blocked moves.
If promises were made last year & weren’t kept then he could have asked to leave in the summer, but to hear those promises again this summer & get itchy feet 3 games in isn’t particularly fair to ‘the club’.
How can United be ‘morally’ in the wrong when OgS has said he’ll get games & their are plenty to go. Surely we should give a greater sample than 3 games & actually see if VdB plays well when given an opportunity.
You make some decent points but they lack relevance cause at the core of it we have an agent making public, a private agreement/discussion.
I don’t mind if they talk or stay quiet but the mental gymnastics people are using here doesn’t sit right; VdB doesn’t simply deserve to play.
Agree with this, the maddening thing is that we essentially had free hit games in the pl at the end of last season which ole could have used to experiment but he didnt.
Ole is a very cautious manager who clearly has his favourites in the squad, it seems hard to get a look in if you arent one of these
We should have cut our losses this summer if he isnt suited to playing as a 6 and used the money to buy a dm. Instead it seems he will hang around being barely used for another 6 months at least
Well if Ole is going to play him as often as he did last year, may as well have sold the guy. If he's not defensively "sound enough" to play deeper, then he's just not going to get game time period as all Bruno, Mata, Pogba and Lingard can play the attacking midfield position, and Ole seems to prefer all these players to VDB. Sounds like we wouldn't even need a replacement honestly.
Look at how much he's bulked up over the summer, I think he's been training fairly hard. How do you even expect him to force his way into this team with so many attacking options, especially when Ole clearly has no faith in him and he's played very few games over the past year?
To add to this.. Whén he gets a chance to start, its very often with (a mixture) of other backup options, and not as part of a potential starting 11.. This makes it even harder to effectively contribute during such a single game
If he doesn't get a consistent chance this year he should leave.
I know he's not been world class, but he's definitely not been as bad as people make out either. He played very well against Wolves last game of the season, he was last seen in the pre season friendly against Everton and had a solid 45 minutes.
Why is he not being given more of a chance? he must be absolutely rotten in training or something, I just can't understand it. Ole seems to be a very good man manager with most of the players, but he's got it very wrong so far with DVB IMO.
I know he's not been world class, but he's definitely not been as bad as people make out either. He played very well against Wolves last game of the season, he was last seen in the pre season friendly against Everton and had a solid 45 minutes.
Why is he not being given more of a chance? he must be absolutely rotten in training or something, I just can't understand it. Ole seems to be a very good man manager with most of the players, but he's got it very wrong so far with DVB IMO.
It's funny the mental gymnastics you're going through to equate Albers to Raiola who offered Pogba to fecking Liverpool.
Ole likely did tell him he would play. He even said he could play a midfield of Pogba, Bruno, VDB. If you a think he came to United and was told he'd only play early cups every 2 weeks, with the odd 10 min sub appearance, you're mistaken. So Albers isn't lying, and he restated what Ole said recently that "he will be important this season" (he will play), after Ole had done so publicly.
VDB hasn't given an interview in almost a year and speculations are at an all time high. His agent giving an interview at the end of the window, when all is said and done gives some clarity to every Utd and Holland fan and is being respectful to club.
Van de Bank (From the bench) isn't exactly a term of endearment.
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Roma were being linked in Italy, but said he isn't the type of player they want.
As if this situation has any impact on my sleep
Whatever makes you sleep better lad, so you’re saying the agent isn’t actually the issue it’s the playing time of their client. . .
So feel free to slander the club, in the form of ‘broken promises’, so long as your player isn’t actually good enough to get into the team.
What a silly take, 2 mouthy agents, end of.
EDIT: Silly*
This agent is protecting his client because he isn’t playing AT ALL.
Raiola is attempting to get Pogba a key player no less to move for more £££.
If you can’t see the difference then that’s a you problem.
I wouldn’t say he’s behind Mata and Lingard, he’s likely to get their minutes this season. Which would be a fair chunk and IF he impresses then he can try to force his way into the starting 11 in the league games.
We’re not going to drop Bruno for him but, heaven forbid if there were an injury to him, we need cover, that’s what Donny was bought for.
In the chances he’s had he’s not just been passive but actually quite negative in his passing, there have been numerous times where he’s ignored the counter attacking transition and actually played a pass that killed the counter - at a time when that was our main threat (and to a large extent still is.) Those moments are what stick in Ole’s mind if I had to put my finger on it, as well as him being pretty anonymous on the pitch.
It’s fine lines but remember there is MASSIVE pressure on Ole to win every game. He can’t drop Bruno in league games.
If we are here later in the year and Ole has given minutes to Lingard and Mata ahead of Donny then I could understand the concern. All we can do is wait and see, his agent seems confident we’ve promised him more game time at least.
He's obviously not going to start for us this season. If Bruno gets injured which will eventually happen we will be very happy we have him
I honestly don't think he will do any worse than Matic and Fred as a CDM. He had a very very good game against Red Bull at home last season, and yet I don't remember him playing there again after that.
I'd expect him to be ahead of Mata and Lingard, my concern is if he actually will be, even with the promise of more game time (the agent said they've already promised that before). He had plenty of opportunities to play VDB last season and threw on the likes of Mata instead.
Lingard, after his fantastic spell at West Ham, will probably get more opportunities, and if Ole knows Pogba plays better further up the field - I'd expect a midfield trio of Fred, McT and Pogba IF Bruno got injured - not Donny.
Either way, we'll see how this plays out further into the season. If he does get more opportunities and game time, then it is a good thing we blocked the move. But if not, I stick by my original statement that it's disgusting how we've handled it.
Yeah I think if Ole had no intention of playing him we would have considered selling, by all accounts he wasn’t in our plans whatsoever for selling, so we can only assume Ole thinks he has a role to play.
I still hope there is a player in there that can contribute and provide quality for rotation.
I never said he deserves playing time. For the rest, you seem to deny your own posts that I quoted, but let's not go over that once again; I've said my part.
I think when we was signed, they probably thought Pogba would be off for a start.
He was also unfortunately injured last season when his chance to get a run in games would have finally materialised.
Feels like one of those where it's never going to quite work out for him here, but he'll go on to have a successful career elsewhere. He's clearly put a lot of work in over the summer and is probably thnking, I'll give it one more season.
He was also unfortunately injured last season when his chance to get a run in games would have finally materialised.
Feels like one of those where it's never going to quite work out for him here, but he'll go on to have a successful career elsewhere. He's clearly put a lot of work in over the summer and is probably thnking, I'll give it one more season.
What I can't understand is how a club that turned Leeds striker Alan Smith into a decent midfielder can't make a good midfielder for Ajax be a good one for us. It's not like you are trying to polish a turd here. I know, that cnut Moyes tore it all up, but it's been years now.
If Bruno gets injured then depressingly I think its Lingard that gets in. Ole doesn't seem to rate or trust Donny at all.
We will see I suppose
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