Sloppy passing and touches

[Solius]

Anyone noticed how often we do this now?

It’s not a coaching issue so please leave any Ole shit at the door. I’ve just been so confused how often a pass is played slightly behind or slightly in front of a player. We’ve ruined so much momentum by accidentally playing a ball behind someone and forcing them backwards, or too far ahead causing the runner to commit a foul or commit too high up.

I think it’s so important in games to have the passing right so the runner doesn’t have to break stride. It helps sustain attacks and prevents us playing our way backwards into trouble so often. If a pass to Shaw is too quick and requires him to stretch for it and take a couple touches to get under control then it’s too late. The opposition will have reset and all he can do is go backwards.

Then you’ve got some awful first touches from players. This is stuff that is down to their abilities. I know confidence can play a part but at the very least you would expect the basics to not be so consistently off.

 

[Eplel]

It's Ole's fault, lack of coaching and a proper system puts players in vulnerable positions way more often that it should happen.

Nice try.

 

[The Firestarter]

What do you think the root cause is, if not due to coaching ?

 

[BootsyCollins]

The players in our team who are suposed to do most of the ”general passing”, our midfielders, are not very good passers.
Even Bruno and Pogba is very sloppy in their short passing.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It is coaching though. That's part of what coaching does, train, improve player abilities including passing

 

[Solius]

What do you think the root cause is, if not due to coaching ?

Poor passing? The pass is on most of the time, it’s just executed poorly.

 

[Solius]

It's Ole's fault, lack of coaching and a proper system puts players in vulnerable positions way more often that it should happen.

Nice try.

Yes that does happen but I’m talking about the specific times where the bad passing puts us into trouble. That is specifically what this thread is about.

Nice try.

 

[The Firestarter]

Poor passing? The pass is on most of the time, it’s just executed poorly.

I mean the root cause for the poor passing. If it was one player , I'd say he is shit at passing. But what you described happens literally to everyone. I think it is due to players not being at the exact positions the others expect them to be in, or have not started the movement their teammates anticipate.

 

[stepic]

Of course it’s coaching. It’s not like the players have all collectively decided to do it this way themselves is it?

 

[Longshanks]

It is coaching though. That's part of what coaching does, train, improve player abilities including passing

Its not exactly under 8's were coaching is it. This belief that you can take a well seasoned international quality footballer and make them look like prime Scholes/pirlo with a bit of coaching is absolute bollocks.

But you can coach systems and encourage low risk or high risk passing i think you will find ole encourages high risk passing with one/two touch football meaning we give the ball away quite alot when we are not on song and its why we struggle to control games sometimes. Buts its also the reason that we can blow sides away very quickly when it all clicks. At the moment it isn't quite working for us.

 

[DoctorEvil]

I do not think it is a new problem. It's something that have been going on for the last 6-7 years, IMO.

And I do think it is a coaching issue, at least in the sense that it is something that should be noticed, monitored, and minimized.

 

[sullydnl]

I know you don't want us to say it's about coaching, but it is partly about coaching. Our players regularly receive the ball with limited easy passing options and under more pressure than they should. Which inevitably impacts their ability to get off clean passes, or choose cleaner low-risk passing options.

And when we talk about "patterns of play", part of the reason you want those well drilled patterns is because it allows players to know where their teammates will be moving, where exactly the ball should be played and time the pass better as a result, having already practiced it repeatedly. If we tend towards a more reactive passing game then obviously our passing will be worse.

It's not a coincidence that a team like Brighton who have much inferior players than us don't suffer from an equivalent extra struggle in their passing game. The coaching helps compensate for a lack of quality.

Leaving all that aside though, some of our players just aren't particularly good on the ball. Fred, McTominay and AWB come to mind in particular. Sometimes players like that are just going to feck up passes and their touch, whatever you do.

 

[Foxbatt]

It's strictly a coaching issue. Coaching is not only ball control or passing. Football is space and time. Right player in the right space at the right time.
If the passes are sloppy it could also mean the receiving player is not in the right space at the right time.
I don't think Ole wants or knows how to play like this.
Gone are the days when we can play like in the 90s.
Good managers with good players will most of the time win against decent managers with good players.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Its not exactly under 8's were coaching is it. This belief that you can take a well seasoned international quality footballer and make them look like prime Scholes/pirlo with a bit of coaching is absolute bollocks.

I didn't say that though. But if you want to exaggerate at the moment we are making Scholes and Pirlo pass like under 8's

 

[Eplel]

To people saying it's not coaching/Ole:

To begin with, our build up play is very limited because we play with 2 DMs that rarely contribute to advanced play, and move very little to provide options when we're in possesion (McT especially likes to hide behind the opposition).

Then, when it comes to patterns of play, we have none. So our players have to rely to their own ability to be perceptive and sharp on their feet, rather than playing in clear patterns of build up. Look up how rarely our FBs overlap compared to other teams, and how often our players stumble onto each other when in possesion.

Last, whatever Ole's tactic is, it is so easy to read and it has no plan B whatsoever. A great example is our loss against Leicester in the FA cup last year. All Rodgers had to do to put press in our defence and midfield was to use 4 players to press in a square shape.

Ole's inability in tactics alone is not enough to turn professional players into bad passers, but combined with the ability of good managers to read our game and press right, our players' options are so limited, we look like our players have never played together before.

 

[Flytan]

You think bad passing and being sloppy isn't related to poor coaching? What?

 

[Offside]

Yep. Makes it a very difficult watch. Constantly on edge waiting for the next dodgy touch or inexplicable misplaced pass. The Benny Hill theme song would be perfect background to our style of play.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

You surely cannot be serious if you think this isn't a coaching issue!

 

[Solius]

You think bad passing and being sloppy isn't related to poor coaching? What?

Does a footballer need to be coached for him to make a 5 yard pass that’s in the runner’s stride?

 

[patch1]

May be they are all coloured blind because they cannot seem to pass to someone in the same coloured shirt.
The amount of misplaced passes is criminal.No players are perfect but some of ours could not hit a barn door from10 yards.

 

[Solius]

You surely cannot be serious if you think this isn't a coaching issue!

Yeah they really fecked up not teaching footballers how to pass 5 yards.

 

[Longshanks]

I didn't say that though. But if you want to exaggerate at the moment we are making Scholes and Pirlo pass like under 8's

You suggested that is was possible to improve a PL players passing ability through coaching, im suggesting it isn't. They wouldn't be PL players if they couldn't pass the ball. The real challenge is being able to do it under pressure with no time or space being able to control a ball that's been fizzed at you then with one touch give yourself space to pick a pass and then have the vision and technique to execute it.

You can't teach that or coach it into someone, players either have the touch, the close control, the vision and the passing range or they don't.

 

[Oranges038]

Sometimes I get quite angry when I see how shit some of the passes are. Fred is one that gets me mad the most, the guy has no idea how to weight a pass.

In general I think the quality of the passing is shite, too many bobbly, under hit, over hit, knee high or chest high passes that aren't called for. Passes being played behind players or to their wrong side so that they need an extra touch to control it. I'd love to see some crisp passing, with passes weighted to enable to the receiver control and pass in one or two touches. Playing passes to the right side of the player, passes they can move onto without breaking stride and can play off without needing to control the ball.

This bad passing leads to poor first touches - these are very poor, either taken the wrong direction or they stop the ball dead rather than taking it in their stride, mostly because the pass played in is shit. Often I've noticed when the play is moving from one side to the other - there's a shit pass into the middle that forces the ball back to the narrow side intead of opening out the play and keeping the ball moving. Or the receiver just turns back for no reason when the ball should be switched out wide.

I don't see how you can get to play for Man Utd if you don't possess those basic ball skills. The simple basics of passing is what lets this side down a lot of the time. They should be working on improving that. But they need to be directed on what they are doing wrong, that's where the coaching comes in I suppose.

 

[luke511]

It's down to the manager and his obsession with McFred. Fred and McTominay are inconsistent and not as reliable in possession as Matic and VDB yet Solskjaer continues to pick them whenever possible. it's a big issue in terms of passing and progressing the ball as those positions are pivotal to dictating the tempo and escaping the press. Fred and McTominay need 2 or 3 touches at least and don't excel in any department technically so that's the root of it. Combine that with Bruno's risky style, AWB's limitations, overall lack of tactics and the opponent targeting these weaknesses it's a bit of a mess.

 

[Pavl3n]

Anyone noticed how often we do this now?

It’s not a coaching issue so please leave any Ole shit at the door. I’ve just been so confused how often a pass is played slightly behind or slightly in front of a player. We’ve ruined so much momentum by accidentally playing a ball behind someone and forcing them backwards, or too far ahead causing the runner to commit a foul or commit too high up.

I think it’s so important in games to have the passing right so the runner doesn’t have to break stride. It helps sustain attacks and prevents us playing our way backwards into trouble so often. If a pass to Shaw is too quick and requires him to stretch for it and take a couple touches to get under control then it’s too late. The opposition will have reset and all he can do is go backwards.

Then you’ve got some awful first touches from players. This is stuff that is down to their abilities. I know confidence can play a part but at the very least you would expect the basics to not be so consistently off.

I think it's a mix of not enough coaching and players not being fully concentrated.
The goal we let in against Everton was absolutely down to poor defending. Players underestimating the danger of the counter and not getting back in shape, Shaw committing towards Doucoure and leaving Townsend free. And the worst of all was the inability of Fred and AWB to extinguish the counter when they had a chance. Absolutely lack of focus and concentration.

So many games we've applied good pressure and a misplaced pass puts us on the receiving end of a counter attack. And that's an issue that's been going for some time in my opinion. And it's a matter the manager and his coaching staff should address. Yet it doesn't look as if they've done anything about it.

 

[soapythecat]

How can you say the whole team have turned to shit and not blame the management? If the players were confident, well drilled, happy with the instructions and set up, then the passing, movement and output by the players would be miles better.
This is the case at Sunday league level, never mind United.

 

[Sviken]

It’s not a coaching issue

what?

 

[Deery]

They need to go out a kick a ball against a wall for a couple of hours a day..

 

[Solius]

How can you say the whole team have turned to shit and not blame the management? If the players were confident, well drilled, happy with the instructions and set up, then the passing, movement and output by the players would be miles better.
This is the case at Sunday league level, never mind United.

Missed the part where I said that?

 

[DoomSlayer]

It’s not a coaching issue

So what is it then? Your whole OP makes no sense. It seems like you are trying your hardest to find any other explanation, other than insufficient and ineffective coaching.

Do a lot of you guys not understand why coaching is so important? Top teams rarely makes mistakes like us, because they have been drilled into the style of play that their managers want. You can't just improvise on the football pitch in the modern game, you can't seriously expect top players to bail you out every game because they are just better individually than their opponents.

 

[Solius]

what?

fecks sake read the damn thread. I’m talking about basic passes. It’s not a coaches job to show a footballer the right way to pass the ball 5 yards.

 

[Solius]

So what is it then? Your whole OP makes no sense. It seems like you are trying your hardest to find any other explanation, other than insufficient and ineffective coaching.

Do a lot of you guys not understand why coaching is so important? Top teams rarely makes mistakes like us, because they have been drilled into the style of play that their managers want. You can't just improvise on the football pitch in the modern game, you can't seriously expect top players to bail you out every game because they are just better individually than their opponents.

Holy shit it’s not hard. There are many things the coaching is there for and that the coaching is not good enough. This isn’t one of them. It’s phenomenally basic stuff. I’m sorry that you think Carrick and McKenna should be the ones that have to tell Fred a pass should be in a players stride to maintain momentum.

 

[Lyng]

It's a very interesting question as I don't think it's one sole factor, but more a combination of issues.

Firstly, about coaching. We have seen Cleverly and Anderson perform beautiful one touch passing plays after intense pass training, back when Ferguson decided we should implement more of that style.

However in our team now it's actually the most simple passes that go wrong.
You have a player like Bruno who will often make stunning passes, but then equally completely mess up the most simple passes at other times.
Then you have players like Fred, Maguire, McT, AWB who all are quite poor at passing. The speed of pass and direction is often completely wrong.

Notice how well we played out from back against Everton compared to other games in the league this season and last season, simply because both Varane and Lindelöf are better at passing than Maguire and Bailly.

It's the same in midfield. Notice the difference when Matic came on against Villarreal. His simple passes are always spot on, which leads to less frantic gameplay, more control and composure, which again leads to control of the game.

So many counters against us are due to bad passes.

I believe we would have much more control and concede less goals if all our players where good passers.

 

[DoomSlayer]

fecks sake read the damn thread. I’m talking about basic passes. It’s not a coaches job to show a footballer the right way to pass the ball 5 yards.

We play with no composure, because the players have to make decisions all the time on their own, instead of having a reliable system to fall back on. A top manager gives the players existing solutions to the problems, passing is one of the biggest examples of that.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Holy shit it’s not hard. There are many things the coaching is there for and that the coaching is not good enough. This isn’t one of them. It’s phenomenally basic stuff. I’m sorry that you think Carrick and McKenna should be the ones that have to tell Fred a pass should be in a players stride to maintain momentum.

Yeah, it's not hard, true. You seem to struggle understanding the issue, though.

 

[massi83]

If you think there is a systemic problem with these kind of passes (there is), then literally the only possible explanations are: bad coaching or bad scouting. Now go back to general and post some puppy pics!

 

[VeevaVee]

Who cares?

 

[LJJT]

Agree with the OP it isn’t coaching, it’s players not concentrating, not being on it and just being too casual. They are all at it, some times it’s a 5 yard pass and they can’t complete it

 

[Deery]

It’s a little bit got to do with coaching, they could be playing small sided games focussed on possession and passing.

Even focus on starting the session with passing drills and ball mastery, I’ve seen Real, City and Barca focus their training on these things.

I wasn’t even joking about the wall worked for Beckham and Bobby Charlton.

 

[VeevaVee]

Agree with the OP it isn’t coaching, it’s players not concentrating, not being on it and just being too casual.

But...that's because of the coaching. Either that or they're simply incapable of it, in which case the management have bought the wrong players.