Not keeping a clean sheet in 9 straight games at home is make believe land? It’s a horrible record if our aspirations are to challenge for the title.Whats it like there in make believe land? Sunny?
Not keeping a clean sheet in 9 straight games at home is make believe land? It’s a horrible record if our aspirations are to challenge for the title.Whats it like there in make believe land? Sunny?
I care a lot less about the 1 goal per game than I do that we stopped scoring 3 per game.Not keeping a clean sheet in 9 straight games at home is make believe land? It’s a horrible record if our aspirations are to challenge for the title.
Thats also another way of looking at it, albeit 5 points and not the 7 you state,Another way of looking at it is that the 7 fixtures last year against the same opponents yielded 7 points more, so thats 7 points needing to be gained from somewhere else this year.
Also with 18% of the league done, we are enroute to 76 points, hardly setting the world a light.
He's been given 3 years and still has the same issues.Id agree, it’s a problem that needs to be solved - and I think we just have to give the management more time at this point.
I have no appetite for yet another knee jerk manager and potentially going backwards. The ole outers want it done today, but I’ve seen no convincing argument for who’s going to come in and suddenly make us title challengers.
Nor did we finish second based on the first few weeks of the season which were dire. After the Arsenal game on November 1st which we lost 1-0 we then went on a run that took us second, and top at one point. That run was 31 games if you discount Wolves away where everyone was rested.Of course it happened. Read his post properly. “When we scored and won games”. We didn’t finish second based on our form in the last few weeks of the season.
Scoring 3 goals a game isn’t sustainable over the course of the season. More clean sheets likely means we win more games 1 nil, the foundation of a title winning squad and something Sir Alex knew as well.I care a lot less about the 1 goal per game than I do that we stopped scoring 3 per game.
Bruno has been shit lately.
For me, and this is just my personal view, all that I wanted from Solskjaer was for him to sort out the problems of a disjointed and inadequate squad left behind by Jose, LvG and Moyes.Watch a replay of Liverpool - City game at the weekend. Maybe that's where the pessimism lies. It's like a completely different sport, watching those two teams play, compared to the dross we serve up, week in, week out, having spent a fortune.
I agree with that, but I'm willing to be patient for a little longer and back a manager that has achieved most of his reasonable objectives up to this point in time. Ole's objectives IMO as of today are simple -As @FatTails keeps pointing out, Ole's points-per-game ratio is still slightly worse than Mourinho's, and so is the average goal difference under him. So this 'improvement on the pitch' is mostly in the intangibles: you can say our games are more entertaining because we score more and concede more but that's about it.
Pretty much everyone seems to agree that our squad is much better now than it was three years ago. It's high time that we start seeing some evidence of that on the pitch, too.
We have no divine right to be a "terrific team" or to win every game and every trophy. After SAF the club went into a steep decline; Van Gaal addressed some of the damage caused by the disastrous spell under Moyes but could only take us so far and never really looked like he was the man to succeed SAF. Mourinho started well and added some top names but as he always does imploded within 3 seasons leaving us in almost as big a mess as Moyes did. Ole began not only by getting rid of the dead wood by letting the players he wanted know he was for them and that he believed in them and they responded. New players arrived and things improved significantly but there is still work to be done and Im sure Ole knows it. Many of us waited for 26 years before SAF took us to the pinnacle of English football again winning the Prem in its inaugural season and from that moment there was no stopping us. Can Ole do the same and restore us to the top again? I dont know, but Im prepared to give him the time to try. Im sure that if he thinks its not going to happen he will resign and then we start all over again, but lets wait and see.For me, and this is just my personal view, all that I wanted from Solskjaer was for him to sort out the problems of a disjointed and inadequate squad left behind by Jose, LvG and Moyes.
In other words, years of mismanagement and piss poor decision making needed to be fixed. That wasn't going to happen overnight.
Solskjaer set about that task immediately, getting rid of Fellaini, Darmian, etc etc...
All well and good, the first team squad now (on paper) is a million miles from what we had 3 years ago, and I think the vast majority of Reds would be more than happy with what the manager now has at his disposal.
The problem is, we don't play good football. Full stop.
With 3 years at the helm, and this squad of players, we really should be a terrific team, but we are not. We are no where near it.
We are poor to watch, and we see the same failings week after week.
Solskjaer isn't filling me with confidence that he knows how to take us to the next level, and that's where my pessimism comes in.
We (supporters) know that we have a gaping hole in central MF, no natural ball winner in there, yet Solskjaer has failed to address that situation, apparently content to go into a new season with Matic, Mata, & McFred, believing that these players are as good as anything else in the PL.
So the big questions are, has Solskjaer taken us as far as he can?
Would Klopp or Pep or similar, be getting much better from this squad of players?
My answer is yes to both of those questions. I think its time for Solskjaer to go.
That's far more reasonable than the OP who, at one point, defined 'things not going well' as being out of all cups and top 4 being out of grasp as well.I agree with that, but I'm willing to be patient for a little longer and back a manager that has achieved most of his reasonable objectives up to this point in time. Ole's objectives IMO as of today are simple -
(1) get us out of this CL group - absolutely essential and no excuses. Even if he is badly let down by the players I don't see how he survives this.
(2) keep us in touch of first position in the league by Christmas. So far that is happening, regardless of fixtures to date.
(3) find the right balance in this team by Christmas. If 1 & 2 are in place and 3 is achieved then I think we could have a strong season
I don't believe that any of the above is unreasonable, or beyond this management team. If it proves to be so then I'll be ready for a change. However, what I won't do in that situation is throw hissy fits or generally tear apart these guys that, unlike Jose, clearly want what is best for our club. Ole should be able to leave the club with his head held high and his legacy intact.
Come on old chap, I see you conveniently left out the most decorated Jose Mourinho whom has won 3xPL, 2xCL to name but a few...proven winner etc, and he managed us already... So what's your point? We've already been down that road before.Come on. Pep won 2 CLs and 3 La Ligas in his first three seasons, including a treble. Zidane won the league and 3 CLs. It does Ole no favours to compare him to those guys.
What has that got to do with what was being discussed?Come on old chap, I see you conveniently left out the most decorated Jose Mourinho whom has won 3xPL, 2xCL to name but a few...proven winner etc, and he managed us already... So what's your point? We've already been down that road before.
Such a reductive argument.Come on old chap, I see you conveniently left out the most decorated Jose Mourinho whom has won 3xPL, 2xCL to name but a few...proven winner etc, and he managed us already... So what's your point? We've already been down that road before.
I never even remotely suggested any "divine right" so I have no idea where you've plucked that from.We have no divine right to be a "terrific team" or to win every game and every trophy.
I agree with that, but I'm willing to be patient for a little longer and back a manager that has achieved most of his reasonable objectives up to this point in time. Ole's objectives IMO as of today are simple -
(1) get us out of this CL group - absolutely essential and no excuses. Even if he is badly let down by the players I don't see how he survives this.
(2) keep us in touch of first position in the league by Christmas. So far that is happening, regardless of fixtures to date.
(3) find the right balance in this team by Christmas. If 1 & 2 are in place and 3 is achieved then I think we could have a strong season
I don't believe that any of the above is unreasonable, or beyond this management team. If it proves to be so then I'll be ready for a change. However, what I won't do in that situation is throw hissy fits or generally tear apart these guys that, unlike Jose, clearly want what is best for our club. Ole should be able to leave the club with his head held high and his legacy intact.
Oh just a miss, how do you know that the next "proven" manager will not feck the club up again requiring yet another rebuild... at this rate we'll be doing rebuilds forever mate. United is not a club that can flip managers every season like Chelsea, it upsets the club culture.Such a reductive argument.
So from now on United can only go for unproven managers because Jose was a miss?
Agree with this. I just wish Ole would take his head out of the sand and hire some better coaches. Or no 2 looks very distant right now, especially considering our next fixtures.I agree with that, but I'm willing to be patient for a little longer and back a manager that has achieved most of his reasonable objectives up to this point in time. Ole's objectives IMO as of today are simple -
(1) get us out of this CL group - absolutely essential and no excuses. Even if he is badly let down by the players I don't see how he survives this.
(2) keep us in touch of first position in the league by Christmas. So far that is happening, regardless of fixtures to date.
(3) find the right balance in this team by Christmas. If 1 & 2 are in place and 3 is achieved then I think we could have a strong season
I don't believe that any of the above is unreasonable, or beyond this management team. If it proves to be so then I'll be ready for a change. However, what I won't do in that situation is throw hissy fits or generally tear apart these guys that, unlike Jose, clearly want what is best for our club. Ole should be able to leave the club with his head held high and his legacy intact.
You need to do more research (not that you will actually care) because there was a whole hornets nest of trouble that Ole walked into in Cardiff. They were doomed to go down long before Ole took the job, and whilst he didn’t stop the inevitable it takes a certain kind of manager to play a certain way to get out of trouble like that. Why do you think Allardyce keeps getting hired? Now tell me, would you hire Fat Sam and task him with winning the league with this squad? I know I wouldn’t, and even if we did that he’d probably be straight into the market in jan for a DM.Pep and Zidane didn't get Cardiff relegated prior to being hired. Also even if we accept its a silly argument to begin with, had Pep or Zidane spent hundreds of millions and failed to deliver any trophies they'd have been sacked. In fact they'd have not made it to 3 years if the results of their efforts and spending had been no noticeable improvement in performance.
It's chronic. We are chronic knee-jerkers who can't see the progress.Can you have a knee jerk reaction when it's the same reaction for the 10th time in 3 years?
So you are ok with Ole continuing as manager even if fail to get out of this group?Top 3 finish.
A cup would be nice but a consistent finish Top 3 finish 4 years on the trot would be good enough to go another year in my opinion.
Quarters/Semi's in the UCL if we drop into the EL, get to the final.
Clearly talking about the league, considering the negativity has increased vastly since the Everton game. Hence the knee-jerking reaction. There's still 31 games to go. No need to panic.
The incredible thing is most people are panicking or getting worked up over results that haven't happened yet.
It’s madness isn’t it. Failure to progress through this group should result in instant dismissal considering the summer signings we’ve just brought in.So you are ok with Ole continuing as manager even if fail to get out of this group?
So your standards are so low, it basically means Ole in even if he fails to get out of this CL group.
Would you agree progress would be staying in touch with the title winners or in the group of challengers till say March/Apr?Very much agree on the first point. He was selfless in how he stripped down the squad in his first summer. That was a guy landing his dream job and risking his reputation making moves that were right for the club, not him. Doesn't get enough credit for that.
Let's be clear, the top 4 hamster wheel is no bad place to be. I've gotten more used to not being in the CL than I have being in it so we shouldn't downplay that. With regards to progress we have to be careful also. If Chelsea don't win the league or CL are they regressing? If Liverpool don't get 95 points with VVD back have they regressed? I realise those managers have 'credit' in the bank from recently winning big titles, but it is possible that we could look back on this season without trophies and still see progress, just as it's possible that we could win an FA cup and decide otherwise.
As I just said in another post in this thread, if the plan was and still is to build something that will be ready to thrive once City's cycle is through, we are still making very good moves and well placed for that.
I think most of the negativity is purely because and based on the performances of our team in the last couple of seasons. I think the caf has been pretty consistent in judging the style of play because we've always been critical of the way we play. It's been since the Moyes era. We haven't come across a team that is gelled together and acts proficiently in dire situations. I know you'll come up and say we've been the best side with out away record and that we have battled back from losing situations in many occasions but that's always because of individual brilliance and some such. We haven't worked as a coherent unit in a long time. I know and understand that for a group to work consistently and together it takes time and Ole has brought in players in positions that were once our weaker positions but we still aren't playing a lot of good football. We struggle a lot when teams sit back and that's been our weakness in a long long time. Sancho was so good against Everton and I've missed players like him who actually manager to beat defenders and run past them with a little trickery. What's even more beautiful is that he manages to pass them and pick a nice pass to creative a chance. Our midfield is the only conundrum now and once we find a fantastic number 6 or a defensive midfielder who can hold off attacks, we'll develop into a flourishing side.Lately without even 10 games played yet (In the PL), there is so much negativity and pessimism on the forum?
Like it's almost as if you'd think we're in a relegation battle, even after finishing 2nd last year, and yes I've heard all the excuses as to why we finished 2nd and why it was nothing to do with Ole or the players and in fact more to do with the teams around us. I mean we deserve some credit can't make up excuses for every single positive thing that United do. Anyway, there seems to be a lot of talk and dislike towards the manager. Now more than ever it seems as I'm perplexed as to why? Why now of all times, why right this moment?
We're not in free fall by any means and yet the feeling around the fans on here anyway is that we're in some sort of disaster mode. Even news that Phelan, Carrick, McKenna are getting new contracts somehow comes back to Ole and fake, patronising praise for the club.
The season has just begun and I'll say it again, people are getting really upset to the point where from the outside looking in, looking at people's reactions to news, it seems as though we're flirting with the bottom 3.
It's the international break too, which doesn't help things either.
Surely it can’t be that cut and dry? If we missed out simply by the points dropped vs Young Boys you think it’s ok for Oles employment to be terminated on the basis of a rash tackle by AWB?It’s madness isn’t it. Failure to progress through this group should result in instant dismissal considering the summer signings we’ve just brought in.
If he can't fix that one individual mistake in he following five games, then he has done to little to keep his job.Surely it can’t be that cut and dry? If we missed out simply by the points dropped vs Young Boys you think it’s ok for Oles employment to be terminated on the basis of a rash tackle by AWB?
This coaches thing never sits well with me. We have to assume that the club - and this is not just Ole, we have a lot of senior people at this club with a view on how things are run - are either collectively completely blind to a team of coaches not fit for purpose, or that we actually do have a coaching setup that they are all currently satisfied with. The latter seems far more logical than the former to me. It's considerably easier and more cost effective to improve that than it is to improve the playing staff, so I just don't see any reason why we wouldn't be out there bringing in better people if it were seen to be beneficialAgree with this. I just wish Ole would take his head out of the sand and hire some better coaches. Or no 2 looks very distant right now, especially considering our next fixtures.
Exactly. Not sure why people can't understand this simple logic. Or may be they do understand but pretend not to.If he can't fix that one individual mistake in he following five games, then he has done to little to keep his job.
Those people seem to be happy to be fan of another Arsenal or Spurs. Bottlers below the absolute top clubs.Exactly. Not sure why people can't understand this simple logic. Or may be they do understand but pretend not to.
You do understand we're still talking about a rebuild 3 years in with our current manager.Oh just a miss, how do you know that the next "proven" manager will not feck the club up again requiring yet another rebuild... at this rate we'll be doing rebuilds forever mate. United is not a club that can flip managers every season like Chelsea, it upsets the club culture.
You know your argument is nonsense because you want him to stay on the fear of the new manager doing a "rebuild" not because you actually think he's good enough for the job. If what Ole has done here is good enough why would the new manager require a rebuild from the scratch ? Absolute nonsense logic.Oh just a miss, how do you know that the next "proven" manager will not feck the club up again requiring yet another rebuild... at this rate we'll be doing rebuilds forever mate. United is not a club that can flip managers every season like Chelsea, it upsets the club culture.
Winning something this season is important but not imperative; the minimum Ole, and we, should be prepared to accept is 2nd in the Prem and CL final and or FA Cup final. Winning any of those will be a good way to kick on and of course I hope we win the lot but being practical thats unlikely, but then so was The Treble! A good CL run to the final could be the making of Ole and his team.That's far more reasonable than the OP who, at one point, defined 'things not going well' as being out of all cups and top 4 being out of grasp as well.
It's definitely comforting that at least Ole hasn't started intentionally sabotaging the team (and I can't see him doing that in the future either). If we're within touching distance of first at Christmas, that means we'll have done well over the upcoming horror run of fixtures and that would be encouraging.
You do remember we wasted 6 or 7 years after Fergie going nowhere with 3 different managers, one of which ruined a title winning team.You do understand we're still talking about a rebuild 3 years in with our current manager.
What is the club culture? To perennially underachieve relative to our spend? To give certain managers unlimited time to "rebuild"?
There has to be some accountability eventually. Ole has spent a fortune and has flattered to deceive over a full season. We will have good periods with him, but we also did with Jose and other previous managers. The goal now has to be to win some silverware, or in a worse case have a real title challenge where we narrowly miss out. Not still talking about cultural reboots or whatever other romantic nonsense you want to make you to absolve the manager.
Take this thread. The implication that fans are kneejerking after 7 games (actually 10 but that doesn't fit OP narrative), when in reality many have had concerns since Xmas of his first full season, and our worrying form in the last half dozen or so games last season.
Tbf us struggling to beat Villareal is no huge point against Ole, he’s the first United manager to manage a win against them.In the CL, it took a 95th min goal to beat Villareal and we lost to Young boys, so in 7 games we look poor. Another 7 games we could be out of both competitions, the title challenge and CL.