We might surprise everyone and get a few wins? We're not Blackburn from 2010 mate.
Ole Sack Watch
- Thread starter Raoul
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Agree on the talk that this is definitively his ceiling, I mean he’s been here three years and he’s improved both the squad and his league position year on year.
Anybody who says this is definitely his ceiling is talking nonsense, it MAY be, but it’s not definitive in the way many claim it to be.
The problem we have is that fans want us to get a manager who can compete with Klopp and Pep, whilst I don’t think Ole will ever be that good I also don’t believe there is a manager available (right now) that guarantees that we will compete with those managers.
Changing manager is an upheaval that at this point is not worth undertaking until we’ve searched for and identified the prime replacement for Ole. It makes zero sense to change until that time.
Some will claim that’s a foolish opinion because ‘theres still a season to play for by changing now’ but I still think it’s the correct and most balanced way to deal with the situation. Knee jerking right now is a pure gamble, fact.
Give it Giggsey till the end of his trial
We won 2 from 12 against the top sides last season. We were abysmal in both games vs Leicester, vs Liverpool, vs Chelsea, vs Arsenal and the home game vs Spurs.
''What will be done eventually, must be done immediately''. We aren't winning the league or CL under Ole, not this season, not next season, not the season after that, this is abundantly clear. More time given to Ole is more time wasted. Tuchel has had a big and immediate impact at Chelsea, winning the CL and turning them into title contenders very quickly. There is no reason why that calibre of manager can't have a similar impact for us, our squad is extremely strong and doesn't need many changes at all.
I agree that changing managers it's gambling, a gamble that may or not pay off. With Ole we are betting in to a losing horse, the argument for keeping him must be better than "well why change him if the next manager may as well be shit like him?".
We keep wasting time as if 8 years of mediocrity haven't been enough.
Really? Last year the result against top sides of MU was 5th/top 6 clubs, if I remember correctly =))))
Zidane and Conte are available. Either would at a minimum make be viable caretakers for the rest of the year.
Yes but those 8 years have been ENTIRELY down to appointing the wrong managers.
This is the point that is lost on many who can’t see past just sacking the manager. I’m not saying that’s you, but we need to remember what brought us here and what the poor fecker has actually done to turn that around
That’s a really good post mate.
No one will take you seriously when you think replacing a manager who’s been in the job for almost three years is “knee jerking”. Also, yes it is a gamble to change a manager at any point. There are unknowns. But keeping Ole is a known quantity now, after almost 3 years in charge, nothing new is coming. He’s not suddenly going to become a different manager or approach things differently.
So should we take a gamble by hiring a proven manager who has shown capabilities to go beyond what Ole can do or should we stick with what we have when it is blindingly obvious that it is lacking?
To me the choice is obvious, but I can see how a more pessimistic take would be, “Jesus, it might even get worse under a new manager! Let’s stick to the mediocrity we know”
In stock market, that's what we call "loss cutting". You should learn to let thing goes when time comes.
Should have sacked him a year ago and got Tuchel. Hell of a manager
So what? He stabilized a squad that had lowered their guns for the previous manager. Is that enough to keep him?Yes but those 8 years have been ENTIRELY down to appointing the wrong managers.
This is the point that is lost on many who can’t see past just sacking the manager. I’m not saying that’s you, but we need to remember what brought us here and what the poor fecker has actually done to turn that around
On the contrary of what you think my opinion is that we don't change managers enough, it's clear we've made pretty poor decisions at picking them. But what's poorer it's keeping them for so long. It was clear Moyes wasn't the right fit yet we let him throw the whole season, we gave LVG another season after we all saw we were heading nowhere under him. Mourinho was good for two seasons still we let him rot the squad for months when it was clear he was self sabotaging. With Ole it's been clear as water for a long time that he's not up to it yet we persist.
We have no problem replacing players but when talking about replacing managers seems people have a blind faith about them. Somehow turning against a player is ok but turning against the manager means you're a plastic fan.
We should sack and hire sack and hire until we hit gold. Persisting with Ole because we've been changing managers before and that doesn't work would be like persisting with Lingard because we've signed players before and that has takes us nowhere.
Hm, my memory is wrong then. Must have been from previous seasons. Anyway, as someone pointed out there aren’t a lot of top managers available right now, so unless we can get our #1 or #2 choice as replacement I think it’s best to give it a bit more time.
It's best to give more time to what we've witnessed yesterday and getting outplayed by every Tom, Dick and Harry?
No thanks.
There is nothing to suggest that would be best at all. 19 games without a clean sheet. In the league lost to Villa, lost to Leicester, drew with Everton. 1 point from the last 9.
Should be packing his bags today.
There is a big difference between reading the game at a high level and teaching what you read at a high level. Not everyone is made for teaching/coaching it's a skill in itself and there are levels, Ole has never demonstrated that he was a high level coach. There are many players that were excellent at analyzing the game, many were considerably better players than Ole and they didn't become great coaches, the likes of Keane, Tigana, Rijkaard and many others.
Agreed. We seem to habitually miss out on the good ones because we are stuck with the ineffective, mediocre ones when they are available.
It’s not blind faith and in fact it’s not letting them stay for too long, it’s been appointing poor fitting managers who have entirely different ethos and style from one appointment to the next.
One manager comes in and tears up the squad and we start the ‘process’ all over again, we did it with LVG, we did it with Moyes and what did all of them say when we sacked them? ‘We didn’t give them enough time.’
Im not saying let’s stick with Ole forever, what I’m saying is we are at a point where it’s vital, more so than ever, that we ensure the next guy is the right fit.
In the absence of a prime candidate I think it fairly obtuse to overlook some fans concern of repeating the tumescent cycle of the last 8 years.
We are just as likely to panic into something like Conte and miss out on somebody who may be a far better fit for us, meanwhile we will be busy giving Conte a chance only for him to fall out with everybody in no time whilst trying to sign feckin Sanchez and Lukaku.
While this is generally true, I think when Tuchel became available we were 1st in the league? Nobody except maybe Perez or Roman would pull the trigger at such a point.
I think this is his last week at the club. Such a shame because I feel he's been a positive influence on the team but this is as far as he can go.
Zidane. And then ten Hag next season. Enough of the shite we've been served post Fergie.
how the heck is the total of percentage numbers in the vote higher than 100??? =)))
One thing has nothing to do with the other. Ole has to go, and we need to find a proper replacement.
Will the replacement mean we'll be competing instantly, well we won't know until we try it. If he doesn't work then sack the new manager and appoint another one. As I said before hire and sack endlessly until we strike gold.
I for one don't want Conte, I agree he's not a long term manager. I think we should aim for one of the "modern" German/dutch managers.
I don't see the point in sacking him before the next international break, but this should be the time we start seriously looking at who could take over, either as an interim or permanent option.
I think we'll be lucky to take a point from our next 3 league games, but even Ole should be able to get 4 points vs Atalanta.
Though if we fail to beat Atalanta and then get dominated by Liverpool I think waiting for the international break won't even be possible. The indignation at how badly we're currently being managed is on an exponential growth curve.
All the problems we've seen with Ole are long term at this point. Directionless possession, lack of team shape, ineffective or missing high press, susceptibility to opposition press, poor basic defending. Ole has shown no ability to really crack these issues. Every time we have a poor spell of form - which has happened at least twice a season in the last two seasons and is happening again now - it's the same issues at the root of it. You would at least expect progress at this point if there were any chance of this changing, but he's struggling as much as ever. They won't disappear of their own accord and the manager seems to have no answers himself.
We could always appoint Teddy Sheringham.
He knows the club.
DNA etc.
Legend from '99, scoring in the final and laying on an assist for another bloke.
Has managed mighty Stevenage and ATK of India.
Has never got anyone relegated.
What could possibly go wrong?
He knows the club.
DNA etc.
Legend from '99, scoring in the final and laying on an assist for another bloke.
Has managed mighty Stevenage and ATK of India.
Has never got anyone relegated.
What could possibly go wrong?
I was 100% behind Ole going into the season, even believing we were capable of putting in proper title challenge. That was then. Hope of any kind of trophy this season us now lost. However, whether we go with an interim manager or not, we need to get the next appointment right. No more sentimental journeys.
Andy Cole assistant manager
Yes but the three years you mention have at least brought continued improvement in the squad and slow progress in league position.
It’s not like he’s started well and gone completely backwards.
On your last paragraph, that’s the fear some of us have. If we were to bin Ole now and hire Conte I would be very concerned the net result of that could be a huge overall negative from the footing we are on now.
We’ve almost completely rebuilt the squad, if somebody like that tore that up and we went in a totally different direction and then he leaves we would be set back years. That’s the concern and it’s a valid one.
It feels inevitable to me at this point that Ole will be gone and Conte will come in before Christmas. I’m not sure that Conte is what we need, but a change certainly is
Knows how to tackle Gordon Ramsay as well.
Bayern were 2nd in the league on match day 10 when they fired Kovac, who also was champion with them last year.
They fired him, hired Flick and won the treble same year.
On the bolded though, how much time should we give them?
Because I like the idea more of one of the German/Dutch up and comers but they aren’t going to hit the ground running.
Improvement in the squad solely on paper. Nothing that has translated into performances or the quality of our football. As evidenced by every game so far this season.
And this is just a fantasy some people have about "tearing up rebuilds", "being set back years". It's a nonsense argument. It doesn't happen. And we don't have a playing system to tear up anyway.
What we have are a collection of excellent players who are currently playing in a team that has no underlying philosophy and no tactical system, at least not one worth talking about.
It depends on the progress, there's not an specific answer to that. Sometimes 15 games can be enough to see if the manager has it or not. It all depends on the famous "eye test".
There's teams that don't get points but their style and upward direction is so obvious that it would be foolish to sack the manager. Like Liverpool's Klopp before exploding.
The club has to start putting in place the groundwork to get a new manager. Ole's taken us as far as he can, but we shouldn't fire him without someone properly lined up.
Forget about going blindly for big names or "United through and throughers". The club needs to identify how we want to play, where we want to be, and who can take this team forward.
The problem is, who has any faith that our board and the people in key footballing positions will be proactive enough to do that? I think they love the coziness at the club, but this team is far too talented to be wasted like it is.
Unfortunately, I think Oles position will become untenable very soon, and we'll go for whoever is out a job. We never learn.
Forget about going blindly for big names or "United through and throughers". The club needs to identify how we want to play, where we want to be, and who can take this team forward.
The problem is, who has any faith that our board and the people in key footballing positions will be proactive enough to do that? I think they love the coziness at the club, but this team is far too talented to be wasted like it is.
Unfortunately, I think Oles position will become untenable very soon, and we'll go for whoever is out a job. We never learn.
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