Would you take Conte at United?

[devilish]

And what is that philosophy? What exactly? The current United team are a shambles with no discernable, consistent playing structure.

I've been watching Antonio Conte since he was a Juventus player under Trapattoni. Player wise he was a bit like Roy Keane. He was nowhere near as talented as Roy was but tactically wise he was a far superior player. In fact Lippi (whose renowned for micromanaging everyone) would say that he never ever talked about tactics with Conte. That's because the guy knew what needed to be done and was like a manager on the pitch.

Lippi was probably the biggest influence Conte ever had. They share their ethos, their 'sympathy', their ruthlessness, their obsession in micromanaging players and building balanced sides that are very hardworking and well drilled. However there are some stark differences between the two. For example Marcello was a gentleman who would internalize any issues he have with the club. That allowed him to return at the helm of Juventus despite being previously sacked and had managed arch enemies Inter. Conte is anything but a gentleman. He threw Juventus under a bus on live TV because of 1 missed signing. The irony is that same player was released under his helm at Chelsea. May I remind you that Juventus was the club that gave him his first shot at a big club both as a player and as a manager, a team that also made him captain of such prestigious club. But that's not in isolation, he had issues with the national team, he had disagreements regarding transfers with Chelsea, he abandoned ship at Inter because of their money issues and went on humiliating Spurs were he basically said that their project sucked. The poor feckers ended victims in a tit for tat with Mourinho, something Conte is well renowned for considering that he had arguments with Allegri, Sarri and even Sacchi.

That's Conte the man. Now let's focus on Conte the manager

He's tactically sound and is known for winning titles (not CLs were he tend to tank big time). What concerns me though is that he's obsessed with a 3-5-2 system. That's bad news for United whose got so much talent and had invested so heavily on its wingers. Also note that Conte likes his wingbacks to be attacking minded which would probably spell the end of Shaw's and AWB's careers as well. That means a revolution in the team which will see huge changes in terms of personnel and which would be overseen by a manager who can easily send the club to feck off at any time.

Conclusion

I am not Ole in, far from it. I think he was a waste of space for most of the time here and he's crap tactically and coaching wise. However we can't keep on slicing and dicing the side at the manager's whim and I assure you Conte will expect nothing short to that. So I'd say shouldn't we at least bring in a manager who can work with most of the players we've got?

 

[LoneStar]

He looks like a Bond villain to me. In a good way!

Honestly, if Pep and Klopp are staying at their clubs for the next couple of years, the person I'd be most confident of winning United the PL during this period is Conte.

He knows exactly what you need to win here. And no, it's not the same as doing it in Ajax or elsewhere. And what we need is to win NOW (i.e. within 1-2 seasons). This squad is currently at its peak imo. We'll need to replace players in 2-3 years.

 

[Andycoleno9]

United must stop being "special" and act like all other top clubs act. All.
In Juve, Real, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea....manager is just an employee who is good while delivering results. Sometimes it is one season, sometimes two sometimes it is 5.
Conte will come and make us title challenger. When he lives we will hire another one top coach. Then another one.
That is how bloody football works on highest level.
United Dna, knows the club, longterm project, stability.....are complete and utter BS.

 

[Sviken]

Our 99 and 07 sides were atracking yet the numbers in isolation weren't great.

I'm saying what I think having watched his Chelsea side and been bored as hell.

People said the same about Mourinho, 'look at his numbers at Madrid' eventhough everybody knew deep down he's a dementor.

To be honest, Mourinho's Madrid side was dominant. Mourinho was very defensive in three periods of his career - his second stint at Chelsea, his United side and his Inter side. The rest he played pretty attacking football, especially in Chelsea's first stint and Madrid. Not sure what football he played in Porto, though.

 

[SATA]

Did he walk away from Inter or was he sacked after some disagreements with the board over transfers?

 

[Highfather_24]

The only way I see Bruno and Pogba playing together is a 3-5-2 tbh.
This is how I see our options with Conte:

GK
RCB CB LCB
RWB RCM LCM LWB
CAM (or RW)
RCF LCF
​

Or push the CAM up and make it a front 3 with wingers in half spaces. It's a mix of what he did with Chelsea and Inter. Plugging our players in:

GK - De Gea/Henderson
RCB - Lindelof
CB - Varane
LCB - Maguire
RWB - Wan Bissaka/Dalot
RCM - Pogba/Van de Beek/McTominay
LCM - Matic/Fred
CAM/RW - Bruno/Sancho/Greenwood/Li gard
LF/LW - Rashford/Ronaldo/Martial
ST - Ronaldo/Cavani/Greenwood

It has balance. You have more defensive cover behind Pogba meaning you can afford to play Pogba in a midfield 2. We have probably a main front 3 of Bruno, Ronaldo and Rashford with Sancho, Cavani and Greenwood being the next 3.
Pretty much this:

De Gea
Lindelof Varane Maguire
Wan Bissaka Pogba Fred Shaw
Bruno
Ronaldo Rashford
​

Cavani, Greenwood, Sancho, Matic, McTominay all providing extra security. Or even Matic with Fred and Pogba competing with Bruno. Conte would have the balls to make these calls and be uncompromising in his views over who can play where - and that's what we need.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and for the reasons you want Conte, I want Zidane. I think he is a pragmatist that will get the best out of our squad, and is a winner. That's what we need imo. The reason I prefer Zidane over Conte, is that we have a lot of big personalities in the dressing room like Ronaldo, Varane, Pogba etc and my worry is Conte will inevitably fallout with some of them, while Zidane is an excellent man manager. I also preferred to watch Zidane's Real over Conte's Chelsea tbh.

As for the formation you mentioned, its a good balanced XI no doubt, but I think having Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani and Sancho for those front 3 spots is just crazy. Even more so when people like Bruno and Ronaldo will surely play most games they are fit. Also, like I've said before, I really dont wanna see AWB and Shaw as wingbacks.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

A defensive manager doesn't score 2.06 goals per game (At Chelsea)

But he does make teams more solid and hard to score against no?

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Did he walk away from Inter or was he sacked after some disagreements with the board over transfers?

Walked away. Wasn’t happy that the likes of Lukaku etc were going to be put up for sale as the owners wanted to sell up as Covid had hit them hard.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Think about who has developed them and how he is described.

Fair enough. I'm not writing off Conte. For me he's absolutely one of the world's best managers. But I've never personally preferred these functional managers like Mourinho (even at his best) and Conte. On the players I mentioned it more due to Greenwood not being a typical strong number 9 and Samcho being a winger (doesn't appear to suit a 532).

But yeah, personal preference aside, Conte is a great manager. Brilliant track record.

That obviously isn't true.

We know that what Jose left behind needed all kinds of recovery, on multiple levels.

It absolutely is true. We needed to improve as Mourinho ultimately failed but it wasn't this catastrophic situation Ole saved us from. Half the problem was solved by getting rid of Mourinho himself.

 

[The Hilton]

We wouldn't take years to recover from Mourinho if we had a really good manager to replace him with. A team that finished 2nd doesn't need that much recovering from. Conte took over from Mourinhos Chelsea meltdown just fine. It'd what top managers do.

And yes, if a managers delivers our first title in nearly a decade. They can set the OT grass on fire and nobody will care. We haven't won a trophy in 4 years FFS

We couldn't get a good manager because we were in freefall, with a dressing room in full mutiny, and nobody other than a club legend would take the job in the position we were in. We simply can't afford to end up back in the wilderness again no matter what short term success we get - it's that thinking that put us in this position due to Mourinho in the first place.

 

[FatTails]

“Clearing the deadwood” will take on a whole new meaning.

Sounds like he’s more suited to the Newcastle job.

 

[lilcurt]

United Dna, knows the club, longterm project, stability.....are complete and utter BS.

All of that is just PR peddled by the club to lower expectation, knowing the egos of the players who played under fergie will latch onto it as they want to be remembered as heroes.

We don't need to be any different to other big clubs in our approach. Appoint the best manager available.

 

[JPRouve]

Did he walk away from Inter or was he sacked after some disagreements with the board over transfers?

He left after the owners decided to cut expenses and sell key players.

 

[The Hilton]

We haven't won the league in a decade. A league title in the next 2-3 years would be nothing short of a massive success.

It really isn't if it involves us being back in the wilderness afterwards. It's that thinking that got us into this position. We've finally established ourselves as a consistent top 4 team for the first time post Fergie, we need to build on that in a sustainable way, otherwise it'll be another decade until we have any real success.

 

[Ixion]

We couldn't get a good manager because we were in freefall, with a dressing room in full mutiny, and nobody other than a club legend would take the job in the position we were in. We simply can't afford to end up back in the wilderness again no matter what short term success we get - it's that thinking that put us in this position due to Mourinho in the first place.

What proof is there we couldn't get a good manager? We were supposed to be waiting till the end of the season then got giddy at beating PSG and gave it to Ole.

 

[el3mel]

He doesn’t care who gets offended. Buffon asked him about a pay rise and he pretty much called him stupid and told him to get out. I don’t remember the exact phrasing. He also disrupted Chelsea with his fight with costa.

The mans insane but the other side of that coin is genius.

Will be great then, will deal with Pogba's contract situation nicely.

 

[LoneStar]

United must stop being "special" and act like all other top clubs act. All.
In Juve, Real, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea....manager is just an employee who is good while delivering results. Sometimes it is one season, sometimes two sometimes it is 5.
Conte will come and make us title challenger. When he lives we will hire another one top coach. Then another one.
That is how bloody football works on highest level.
United Dna, knows the club, longterm project, stability.....are complete and utter BS.

Yes, this is very true. We just need to make sure the club hire the right profile of players, so that hiring and firing managers won't result in a complete upheaval of the squad.

Or else go the classic RM way and just blast money on superstar players until they get it right.

 

[The Hilton]

What proof is there we couldn't get a good manager? We were supposed to be waiting till the end of the season then got giddy at beating PSG and gave it to Ole.

Who was managing us for that PSG match? Ole, who was caretaker because there were no other options. We're fortunate he did such a good job of steadying the ship.

We were a mess, and I fear that we'll be in a similar mess post Conte - if he does end up taking over, then I'll desperately hope I'm wrong.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yes, this is very true. We just need to make sure the club hire the right profile of players, so that hiring and firing managers won't result in a complete upheaval of the squad.

Or else go the classic RM way and just blast money on superstar players until they get it right.

We are only club (and City) who do that. Manager comes and work with inherited players with adding few. Only we (again we must be special) believe that manager must have HIS squad.

 

[Reapersoul20]

How is Conte a defensive manager when Inter scored the second most goals last season behind Bayern? Jesus, it seems some people here have zero idea who Conte is and haven't watched anything from his teams, relying on twitter gossip and what not to base their opinion on him.

I mean...he is noted for being defensively minded and has been for a long, long time. He has that reputation because he earned it.

 

[JPRouve]

Fair enough. I'm not writing off Conte. For me he's absolutely one of the world's best managers. But I've never personally preferred these functional managers like Mourinho (even at his best) and Conte. On the players I mentioned it more due to Greenwood not being a typical strong number 9 and Samcho being a winger (doesn't appear to suit a 532).

But yeah, personal preference aside, Conte is a great manager. Brilliant track record.


It absolutely is true. We needed to improve as Mourinho ultimately failed but it wasn't this catastrophic situation Ole saved us from. Half the problem was solved by getting rid of Mourinho himself.

Sancho isn't a winger and Greenwood could do with being taught a thing or two about team Football, develop his strength and being more than a goalscorer for his team. Also Conte doesn't only play in 352, it's also not 532 the distinction is important because he doesn't like it when his wingbacks drop too deep, it's kind of similar to Gasperini in that respect.

 

[Ixion]

Who was managing us for that PSG match? Ole, who was caretaker because there were no other options. We're fortunate he did such a good job of steadying the ship.

We were a mess, and I fear that we'll be in a similar mess post Conte - if he does end up taking over, then I'll desperately hope I'm wrong.

No Ole was caretaker because the club didn't want to rush picking the new manager. You cannot genuinely believe no one wanted the Manchester United job.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We couldn't get a good manager because we were in freefall, with a dressing room in full mutiny, and nobody other than a club legend would take the job in the position we were in. We simply can't afford to end up back in the wilderness again no matter what short term success we get - it's that thinking that put us in this position due to Mourinho in the first place.

You just made that up. All hail Ole for sacrificing himself for the greater good.

 

[The Hilton]

No Ole was caretaker because the club didn't want to rush picking the new manager. You cannot genuinely believe no one wanted the Manchester United job.

Not no-one, but nobody who's good enough to "stop there being any problem", considering that the mess we were in would have been difficult for even Fergie to rectify quickly.

 

[The Hilton]

You just made that up. All hail Ole for sacrificing himself for the greater good.

A strawman and a kids laughing emoji. What simulating debate.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That last line is so apt for us right now

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sancho isn't a winger and Greenwood could do with being taught a thing or two about team Football, develop his strength and being more than a goalscorer for his team. Also Conte doesn't only play in 352, it's also not 532 the distinction is important because he doesn't like it when his wingbacks drop too deep, it's kind of similar to Gasperini in that respect.

He's a winger/wide forward. Be interest to see how he lines up if he comes. No doubt he's (Conte) one of the best around.

 

[Ralph1386]

Perfect option would be to hire him for the rest of the year and then secure Ten Hag next season.

My thoughts exactly. I would prefer another caretaker but at this point I would choose Conte over Ole until the end if the season IF the board offer him a short term contract.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

A strawman and a kids laughing emoji. What simulating debate.

Hopefully I'm laughing at the adult. Go on then, how do you that nobody would take the job other than a club legend?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We needed to improve as Mourinho ultimately failed

Half the problem was solved by getting rid of Mourinho himself.

Never said otherwise.

I simply said that your initial claim - made without qualification - was wrong. Which it was.

 

[Ixion]

Not no-one, but nobody who's good enough to "stop there being any problem", considering that the mess we were in would have been difficult for even Fergie to rectify quickly.

No one to immediately come in in December maybe, that's why the club was trying to be sensible and wait till the summer. Sorry but Jose did not destroy the club to the point no one would touch the job and Ole selflessly took the burden upon himself.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Perfect option would be to hire him for the rest of the year and then secure Ten Hag next season.

Would the board be willing to give a short term managerial contract is another question in itself.

Conte is too good to come as a caretaker. He wins leagues everywhere he goes. Ten Hag sounds an exciting coach (and the kind I'd like) but he's a baby compared to Conte in terms of stature.

 

[JPRouve]

He's a winger/wide forward. Be interest to see how he lines up if he comes. No doubt he's (Conte) one of the best around.

He is wide playmaker similar to a Hazard and Hazard was doing perfectly fine for Conte. Sancho moves around and wants to be on the ball, he isn't a traditional wide player.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Never said otherwise.

I simply said that your initial claim - made without qualification - was wrong. Which it was.

It wasn't. Your reading too much into the word recover. It had to be seen in context of the post I was quoting which made it sound like we were about to crumble. Like with Chelsea (not to that degree as we weren't as good as them) the situation looks worse than it is as Conte proved shortly after.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He is wide playmaker similar to a Hazard and Hazard was doing perfectly fine for Conte. Sancho moves around and wants to be on the ball, he isn't a traditional wide player.

That's true.

 

[bosnian_red]

But the problem is, it's going to be the wingers in the bin. They won't want to play wingback so it's going to be Sancho and Rashford likely feeling the heat. I don't see a situation where they're kept happy. 1 place to rotate across Bruno and Sancho? That's a problem. 2 Places across Cavani/Ronaldo/Rashford/Greenwood? That's a problem.

It's not a problem, it's the only possible solution really. In a 3-5-2 we don't use wingers, in a 3-4-3 we don't use a 10. That's fine. We have options to change things around when needed. People ask for balance and then demand we play Rashford, Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno as a front 4 and then question why Pogba or Van de Beek aren't starting every game. Quite simply - there's a limit on how many free roaming attacking players you can play. We have too many. If we use a 3-4-3, then Bruno learns how to play as part of the midfield 2. He's capable of it and has done those roles in the past anyway. Or Pogba plays it and Bruno is an impact sub. Or we play a 3-5-2 and Sancho fights to get in at the 10. We don't have the players to be successful with a 4-2-3-1. We can put out a front 4 but don't have the personnel to balance out the rest. So if some have to be bench players then so be it.

 

[bond19821982]

Zidane does not want to come here.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

His agent has also said in the past:



Then you add in he doesn't even speak English, it's clear he's not interested.

I thought this too. With Ronaldo here, our first preference would always be Zidane. We are only going for Conte because Zidane isn't available

 

[The Hilton]

No one to immediately come in in December maybe, that's why the club was trying to be sensible and wait till the summer. Sorry but Jose did not destroy the club to the point no one would touch the job and Ole selflessly took the burden upon himself.

I'm not saying it was selfless, you're putting words in my mouth. It was a great opportunity for him. But Mou left an awful mess, nobody worthwhile was gonna take over mid season, and even at the end of the season we had unfit players most of whom weren't good enough or didn't want to be here.

 

[2ndTouch]

How exactly is Conte similar to Jose ? Seriously though. Anyone care to explain ?

Brings short term success, doesn't stay for too long, prefers finished products over juvenile prospects, isn't known for having his teams play scintillating football.

 

[JPRouve]

That's true.

It's also worth mentioning that Sancho actually played in a 343 with Dortmund under Favre.