I don't really want Conte, I don't see how his wing back system will work here, we don't have the players for it and have too many attacking players that would have to be left out. Also concerns over his volatile personality, he falls out with people a lot.
Would you take Conte at United?
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I have a lot of respect for him. Seems to know what he wants and lots of self-awareness, which he showed at Real and now this. Not many bigger jobs around than United and he’d be paid a truckload…yet he doesn’t want it.
I'm quite torn, honestly because you're right, Conte is too good to be a caretaker but at the same token locking him down to a long term contract like we have with managers in the past is also a probably not a good idea.
My suggestion would be the ideal circumstance given our dilemma simply because the latter isn't just going to abandon Ajax mid season to this, but obviously not everything works like I want to.
Conte is like Mourinho is that he's all about conflict. In particular with his bosses. Its the polar opposite of what we want.
People HATED that Mourinho never shut up about what he needed, and now people want more of the same
Conte would be a mistake. Back to the good old strategy of aimless appointing of managers with no continuity whatsoever between them.
Neither engages in a high press in transitions, prefer falling back into shape instead of trying to recover the ball quickly.
Funnily enough, Pep teams have stopped the high press as well during 2020 preferring to conserve energy, fall back and avoid muscular injuries during a congested season and it worked well for them.
Do we have a team to suit Conte's style? Genuine question.
One massive difference is that Conte actually makes good use of what he has and then ask for more in order to match his ambition. Mourinho ask for the sky first and then eventually complains that it's not enough when he hasn't delivered what he promised. Also Conte doesn't try to get sacked, he resigns if he feels that he can do his job and has never left a club in a worse situation than he took it.
Attacking players will be left out no matter what system you play. The ridiculous 4-2-4 that we play to fit as many attacking players as possible is failing.
If Ole is here next weekend, and he has learned anything, he is going to drop one of the front four for an extra midfielder anyway. Then you’d have at most two of Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Bruno, Martial, Lingard, Mata, Amad, and Mata, and at most one of Cavani or Ronaldo. Zidane would probably do something similar, with three actual midfielders and three attackers
Conte would probably go with a 3-4-3 and have, again, two of Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Bruno, Martial, Lingard, Mata, Amad, and Mata, either side of one of Ronaldo or Cavani.
The difference is that one will have three central defenders and another three central midfielders. The nice thing about the 3-4-3 compared to the 4-3-3 is that the latter needs a DM, whereas against most teams, we can get away with two 8s in the 3-4-3. Also, I wouldn’t say we have more high level CMs than CBs, it’s about the same.
Nobody worthwhile is what I meant.
Sure we could have probably have had Moyes back in, but we offered an incredibly toxic atmosphere, an unfit dressing room in full revolt, and huge pressure. Honestly who would you have brought in as caretaker instead of Ole?
As an aside, I don't get your defensiveness here. Kids emojis and the like. All I want is to make sure the club doesn't end up back in this same situation.
I dont know. He is a terrific manager but will the players throw him under the bus. It seems like the players want some like Pep or Klopp who is attacking and has tactics to break teams down.
I still think Ten Hag is the ideal candidate but we would have to wait to till the summer.
I still think Ten Hag is the ideal candidate but we would have to wait to till the summer.
the very supporters singing 'we want conte' will utterly hate him in 3 months time. even with results
Conte at United would be fecking terrifying.
Genuine question (not wumming) why did he leave Inter?
was it not because the owners decided they couldn’t invest more and players had to be sold?
It didn’t all implode like at Chelsea did it?
was it not because the owners decided they couldn’t invest more and players had to be sold?
It didn’t all implode like at Chelsea did it?
I could be wrong but I'm under the impression that outside of Diego Costa players like him and in interviews he seems to like his players and his job. In a way he reminds me Simeone who is a maniac on the touchline but sounds like a nice, personable man outside of it.
First XI (dependent on recent form)
Bruno/Sancho would be false 9s, with the front two operating as wide forwards who cut in from the half spaces.
Longer term, we'd still need a couple of midfielders and a new CB. With the likes of Laird, Amad and Elanga knocking on the door to take squad places from our out of contract players.
Rashford------------------------------Ronaldo
Bruno
Shaw--------------Pogba---------Matic--------------Lingard
Varane--------Maguire----McTominay
DDG
Second XI (rotation options to exploit opposition weaknesses)Bruno
Shaw--------------Pogba---------Matic--------------Lingard
Varane--------Maguire----McTominay
DDG
Cavani-----------------------------------Greenwood
Sancho
Telles--------------VDB---------Fred--------------AWB
Jones-----Lindelof----Bailly
Henderson
Sancho
Telles--------------VDB---------Fred--------------AWB
Jones-----Lindelof----Bailly
Henderson
Bruno/Sancho would be false 9s, with the front two operating as wide forwards who cut in from the half spaces.
Longer term, we'd still need a couple of midfielders and a new CB. With the likes of Laird, Amad and Elanga knocking on the door to take squad places from our out of contract players.
For whom?
At Chelsea at least, that was the case. They found his antics on the touchline a bit odd but generally speaking, other than Costa and Willian, he seemed to have to a respectful and cordial relationship with the squad.
For me, as an oppo fan.
Probably for everyone
Will set us back years
Top manager but his style and type of player he requires don't suit our squad one little bit.
Top manager but his style and type of player he requires don't suit our squad one little bit.
I'm not on board with Conte as first choice to replace Ole but he's getting a bad rap here for being as toxic as Jose.
Given the squad that we have right now, how would he set us up in a 352 if he had the reins as soon as this Saturday? Given form, fitness issues and suspensions, the following:
De Gea
Bailly Lindelof Shaw
Dalot Fred Matic Bruno Telles
Cavani Ronaldo
I'm assuming Maguire is not fit and he's clearly out of form, Varane won't be fit by Saturday and Pogba is serving his ban.
There should no doubt about De Gea starting. Bailly is wild card but he does have speed and will want to impress the manager. Lindelof isn't in top form either but he has not been a disgrace. Shaw has been out of form but we need to stick with him if we're going to go back three. AWB needs to watch a few matches from the bench IMO.
I'm not going to go through all five of the five but at the very least I hope we can all agree that McTominay should be nowhere near the starting XI. Bruno has been poor but I don't think it works at all to start Donny over Bruno...that said if Bruno drops a turd he needs to be dropped himself and Donny given a chance. Dalot and Telles can put in some very solid crosses for Ronaldo. And in all honesty, a player of Cavani's immense quality and industry should be starting while he's fit.
I hate to not find room for Sancho as he is on the cusp of finding his feet, but for now the ship needs to be steadied.
Long term with form, fitness and suspension not being an issue I could see this under Conte:
De Gea
Maguire Varane Shaw
AWB Matic Bruno Pogba Telles
Ronaldo Rashford
Yes, I hate to see no room for Sancho in the starting XI but only after him seeing him put in a top shift in his tracking duties would I consider including him in the starting XI either in the front 2 or mid 5 -- at whose expense all depends on form and the circumstances of the opponent.
All that said, if Ten Hag can be talked into abandoning the Ajax project in mid-season -- which seems mind-bogglingly impossible -- we have to pull that trigger.
Given the squad that we have right now, how would he set us up in a 352 if he had the reins as soon as this Saturday? Given form, fitness issues and suspensions, the following:
De Gea
Bailly Lindelof Shaw
Dalot Fred Matic Bruno Telles
Cavani Ronaldo
I'm assuming Maguire is not fit and he's clearly out of form, Varane won't be fit by Saturday and Pogba is serving his ban.
There should no doubt about De Gea starting. Bailly is wild card but he does have speed and will want to impress the manager. Lindelof isn't in top form either but he has not been a disgrace. Shaw has been out of form but we need to stick with him if we're going to go back three. AWB needs to watch a few matches from the bench IMO.
I'm not going to go through all five of the five but at the very least I hope we can all agree that McTominay should be nowhere near the starting XI. Bruno has been poor but I don't think it works at all to start Donny over Bruno...that said if Bruno drops a turd he needs to be dropped himself and Donny given a chance. Dalot and Telles can put in some very solid crosses for Ronaldo. And in all honesty, a player of Cavani's immense quality and industry should be starting while he's fit.
I hate to not find room for Sancho as he is on the cusp of finding his feet, but for now the ship needs to be steadied.
Long term with form, fitness and suspension not being an issue I could see this under Conte:
De Gea
Maguire Varane Shaw
AWB Matic Bruno Pogba Telles
Ronaldo Rashford
Yes, I hate to see no room for Sancho in the starting XI but only after him seeing him put in a top shift in his tracking duties would I consider including him in the starting XI either in the front 2 or mid 5 -- at whose expense all depends on form and the circumstances of the opponent.
All that said, if Ten Hag can be talked into abandoning the Ajax project in mid-season -- which seems mind-bogglingly impossible -- we have to pull that trigger.
It's about time. In the right hands this Utd team is dangerous.
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Ok, wasn't sure how he is regarded by Chelsea fans. Personally I rate him as one of the best managers in the world and would be delighted if we appointed him.
Conte in means we win the league next year IMO. It’s a no brainer.
You are mixing things together that doesn't necessarily belong together. As long as we don't give the manager total control, all the factors you listed disappear. Sure, some manager might not want to work with us as long as we want to keep control but then good riddance. Murtough and Fletcher have to have some sort of vision for the club. Together with some sort of budget for the next 3 years. It needs to align with what a potential manager envisions. Without an alignment, no job. But this has nothing to do with short- or longterm stuff.
This is my peception as well.
Good post
All that only under the premise that we have to put players like Varane and Ronaldo on top of any mission. They joined this club 20 minutes ago. I understand the notion but going for short term success too early doesn't seem to be a good idea to me. Our squad isn't ole in the slightest. Obviously I'd like to challenge for honors now but not at the cost of a more longterm oriented plan. The club comes first and even if it would take Ten Haag some time to implement a system, we would reap the rewards probably for longer than going for Conte now and at least risk the development of quite a few of our youngsters. Conte is going for success which is great but there needs to be some sort of route for our talents as well.
Don't want to picture Conte as bad or anything, nor Ten Haag as great, but this is a decision that should be taken having long-term as a priority.
That was another good read. I agree with your conclusion. The thing that mostly seems to speak for Conte is that he is the best that is available right now. That wouldn't be enough for me. He needs to be the right one. Without any doubts and with thorough checks and alignments in terms of recruitment and so on.
In a good way?
Those are some fair points. Who do you think the wing backs would be in that system? AWB obviously can't play as one, maybe Shaw can if he recaptures his form from last season. I don't think Telles can as he's not athletic enough to get up and down all game. Conte would have to retrain some players from other positions to play those roles, or buy some players.
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Here's what Ashley Young said about Conte:
"I want to win trophies, I want to win titles and with a manager like that, you want to go out there and fight for him."
Sounds like Fergie. I think players like Ronaldo, Bruno and Pogba would love him. I don't think Ole has any respect from the players at the moment. They consider him a bit of a joke and not a winner.
I'm at best lukewarm towards Conte. Very good manager, but seems like an awful fit with his style and our current squad.
Conte did implement a 3-4-3 at Chelsea so people worried about Sancho and our other wide forwards wouldn’t need to. It doesn’t need to be a 352.
Bruno in a midfield 2 with AWB wide right as a more defensive option could work.
Bruno in a midfield 2 with AWB wide right as a more defensive option could work.
Yeah. He wouldn't be a long term appointment, but I have zero doubts that United would challenge and likely win the title with Conte in charge.
Does Zidane speak English.... I think a few words but not fluent
More in terms of personality than on the pitch style - combative, falls out with players, moans about the club management to the press, that kind of thing. Wants fighters on the pitch. Wants a tight defence.
In some ways he's the opposite to Jose - he's a big Patterns of Play™ guy and when he was at Chelsea and we had Jose there was a lot of talk about the difference between Jose's freestyle approach to attack and Conte's coached patterns. (Think Conte was proven right on that one). They're similar in the way that Pep and Tuchel are similar. They're sort of in the same category as managers but in other ways are very different from each other.
In a 343:
de gea
Awb. Maguire. Verane
Fred VDB
Sancho Shaw
Bruno
rashford Ronaldo
I think we could afford to play Sancho on the right considering how good awb is defensively. That team would be tough to beat and still had the attacking talent to score goals. Could easily swap Fred/McTominay or Rashford/Greenwood depending on who you prefer.
de gea
Awb. Maguire. Verane
Fred VDB
Sancho Shaw
Bruno
rashford Ronaldo
I think we could afford to play Sancho on the right considering how good awb is defensively. That team would be tough to beat and still had the attacking talent to score goals. Could easily swap Fred/McTominay or Rashford/Greenwood depending on who you prefer.
I'm curious about what type of style and players we have? Because we don't have the possession type, we don't have the highly technical, mobile type and we don't have the high press type. At least those are not trait that define this team as a whole. I think that there is a big difference between what people think we have and what we actually have, we have a team that is mainly built for a low block and fast breaks that's exactly Conte, that's what Ole tried to develop but failed to do.
If anything if we were to bring someone like ten Hag or Guardiola, this team would have to work a lot more to fit the mould. I think that they could because we don't really have strong specialists but it's not their current game.
My main concern is we're very winger/wide forward heavy, our best players are wide players and Conte plays without wingers
Greenwood/Rashford could get a game upfront potentially but Sancho is in trouble.
1. He falls out with the board after 2 years like clockwork
2. He barely promotes any youth and with a large talent pool like ours, it would be really shortsighted to appoint a manager like that
3. He emphasis is on defensive football
4. Always prioritizes veterans that can do a shift(i.e. Young, Lukaku, Sanchez) meaning that after 2-3 years we'll have to get them off the wage bill(good luck with that)
5. Very poor European recorded for a Top Coach
Don't get me wrong, he's a good manager(a tad overrated though), but he's currently not a good fit. If this was 2018 or when Fergie retired, he'd be perfect. But as things stand right now, he'll do more damage than good. As a club we've tried transitioning to a more attacking club that puts emphasis on promoting the youth. Conte is neither.
And since we're in the middle of a reorganization, appointing him will be nothing short of a disaster. We're going to have to start another rebuild because Conte always brings his past it men who he can trust. There is a reason that at his peak managers like Jose was never considered for jobs at Bayern or Barca(something Mou was very sore about). His football brand wasn't congruent with the vision of these clubs.
Right now as a club we are at a crossroad. We're in between short term success at any cost(Real and Chelsea) or long term planning for domination(Bayern and Ajax). As I've mentioned in previous posts we are leaning towards the second model. Our whole recruitment model and board appointments is leaning that way as well.
And why is Conte considered a sure bet to win the league? He won it with Juve when both AC Milan and Inter were on a downward spiral. He won it with Chelsea in the post Leicester year where Pep and Klopp were still putting their ducks in a row. At Inter he couldn't do it despite Sarri's Juve was on a severe decline. That year he barely finished above Atalanta. He needed a certain Pirlo to completely implode in order to win the league again.
I've yet to see any proof in his managerial career where he can take on an established WC manager and beat him to the title. And this is the final reason why I don't want him here. Not only is there absolutely no gurantee that he'll be able to beat Pep/Klopp to the title, but also we're still going to be wank in Europe. If I'm making a deal with the devil, I expect some results. And for that reason alone I would take Zidane(who will also feck off in 2-3 years and who isn't my first choice either) over Conte 10/10.
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