Tbh I don't watch much Chelsea or follow them so I have no idea what happened back then with Conte. But whenever I have a chance to watch him he's fecking great with his positioning and reading the game. He's basically always where he should be. I can't say the same about Fred watching him week in week out. Rather he's rarely where he should be.
Would you take Conte at United?
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I like how relaxed they both look. Finally met a worthy foe/kindred spiritLost it at the Godfather soundtrack.
That handshake with Roy Keane at @3:15, too much testosterone in one picture.
Kante has developed his game since, but even until WC 2018, Kante as the sole holding midfielder was never convincing. Deschamps had to bring back Matuidi as a pseudo left winger/left sided midfielder.
The point being, Kante positioning and reading of the game is due to development. Not natural born. He's more naturally suited as all action, box to box midfielder. Fred profile is also a box to box midfielder. Fred himself described his preferred role with all the traits of all action box to box midfielder in his recent interview. Of course, Fred overall is levels below Kante. However, Fred does have some stronger points than Kante.
Fred has been forced to play as holding midfielder for a while now. With McTominay take a hiding in games in recent time, it's understandable for Fred to look worse doing an unnatural role, and having to overextend to cover for his partner.
Now back to Conte. Conte can use a player with Fred profile until better option available. Conte also had no issue to have Pogba perform to a better consistent level. Will it be enough for us to be back on track to challenge within this season as is? I am not sure. However, it's certain our midfield won't be continuing this downward trajectory that lesser team just walk all over us.
Not what I see when I watch Kante then. I'd argue his positioning is among the worst part of his game, which is why he's never trusted as the deepest midfielder at Chelsea. It's his freakish combination of stamina, pace and agility (as well as being generally very good on the ball) is what makes him so great.
It's not surprising, that Chelsea have generally been better playing a back 3 (under both Conte & Tuchel) since Kante's arrived, and generally struggled playing a back 4. The back 3 allows him to be a pressing machine without having to worry too much about covering the space in the middle.
You guys are probably right about Kante I think. I don't watch Chelsea much anyway.
But the problem with Fred is he also has great stamina and pace, but he's more than often is not where he's supposed to be. That I think can't be denied.
Why the hell would anyone play Kante as the holding midfielder, in the sense that just stay in one place and cover space. His best attribute is his stamina and running around harassing people. It's like asking Messi to play as a target man and wondering why he's shit.
How would he get the current squad lined up and what patterns of play?
Be good to have a manager with a different view regarding our midfield, as there’s a lot of darn good players who’ll be able to negotiate in January with a view to signing in the summer.
Be good to have a manager with a different view regarding our midfield, as there’s a lot of darn good players who’ll be able to negotiate in January with a view to signing in the summer.
If we play a 3-5-2, three out of Greenwood, Rashford, Cavani and Sancho will always be on the bench. That's not good.
If we play 3-4-3, Bruno will be on the bench.
3 at the back just doesnt suit our squad no matter the mental gymnastics people do. I'm not saying play all of them, but a 4-3-3 accommodates Bruno, Rashford, Sancho and Ronaldo, with just Cavani and Greenwood on the bench, which is nice and balanced. Conte has to play a 4-3-3, otherwise he is wasting our attacking talent. And please dont say "but what about trophies and balance" because those are not mutually exclusive.
If we play 3-4-3, Bruno will be on the bench.
3 at the back just doesnt suit our squad no matter the mental gymnastics people do. I'm not saying play all of them, but a 4-3-3 accommodates Bruno, Rashford, Sancho and Ronaldo, with just Cavani and Greenwood on the bench, which is nice and balanced. Conte has to play a 4-3-3, otherwise he is wasting our attacking talent. And please dont say "but what about trophies and balance" because those are not mutually exclusive.
How does a 4-3-3 accommodate all our players when Bruno likes playing as a 2nd striker?
I'm more in the Conte camp than the Ten Hag camp.
Conte has managed in England before and won things here. He's also head strong enough to take on the big boys head-on, i don't see him trotting out any 'little horse' or 'aspiring to be' type speechs. Whether we're capable or not he'll want to win right from the off and he'll approach every big game as an oportunity to establish us as a contender even if we're out of contention this season.
I'm also not bothered about his demands of constant and continued investment, we've not been shy of spending post fergie and if he delivers then support him. I think we've a good honest squad though and i think he'll get plenty out of us - i don't buy this arguement people are putting foward about 'we don't have the players for his system' that nonsense. good professional players can adapt to any system with the right coaching and i think we've got a lot of very good professional players. The guy turned victor-fckin-moses into the best wing back in the league
The only questions are his record in europe but thats always a far smaller sample size required to draw any real conclusions from and I'm unsure whether he'll really want to stay in England for a prologned period of time. I'm not calling for a fergie-esque reign but i'd probably want a good 4 seasons, I don't want him looking at the door after 18mths
Conte has managed in England before and won things here. He's also head strong enough to take on the big boys head-on, i don't see him trotting out any 'little horse' or 'aspiring to be' type speechs. Whether we're capable or not he'll want to win right from the off and he'll approach every big game as an oportunity to establish us as a contender even if we're out of contention this season.
I'm also not bothered about his demands of constant and continued investment, we've not been shy of spending post fergie and if he delivers then support him. I think we've a good honest squad though and i think he'll get plenty out of us - i don't buy this arguement people are putting foward about 'we don't have the players for his system' that nonsense. good professional players can adapt to any system with the right coaching and i think we've got a lot of very good professional players. The guy turned victor-fckin-moses into the best wing back in the league
The only questions are his record in europe but thats always a far smaller sample size required to draw any real conclusions from and I'm unsure whether he'll really want to stay in England for a prologned period of time. I'm not calling for a fergie-esque reign but i'd probably want a good 4 seasons, I don't want him looking at the door after 18mths
Bruno has played in a 4-3-3 for Sporting and Portugal before as a midfielder. Its not his best position, but he can do well there under a good manager.
Im not sure but didn't Conte start playing Eriksen deeper and he did well there?
My only concerns about Conte :
- Whether he can challenge the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel at their prime.
- His CL record.
- Apparently his boring football.
Everything else like shitty personality, short term fix, messes with boards, I dont really care about. He's a winner, will make our defence solid, and provide a good tactical foundation for our team(which will help when we eventually get a manager like Ten Haag), which are all what we need desperately.
- Whether he can challenge the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel at their prime.
- His CL record.
- Apparently his boring football.
Everything else like shitty personality, short term fix, messes with boards, I dont really care about. He's a winner, will make our defence solid, and provide a good tactical foundation for our team(which will help when we eventually get a manager like Ten Haag), which are all what we need desperately.
In a 3-5-2 yes, which runs into the first problem I mentioned.
Telles cause he'd be a wingback?
Remind me why did he leave Chelsea, what happened?
Leaving Inter I completely understand.
There's a notion he's some crazy guy who makes a mess suddenly and leaves with a bang which is far, far from the truth.
Conte is almost certain to be installed as Manchester United manager at this point, so people best start getting their heads around it now. Only thing (in my opinion) that might stop it happening is if he makes silly demands of our board, but there's a good chance he will be extremely happy to work with our current squad anyway with a bit of tweaking, so they'll all come away happy.
The Manchester United way, whatever that is, is a bit of a myth at this point anyway, so look at the positives of Conte related to our club:
He clearly watches us a lot, after all he scouted out Darmian, Lukaku and Young and took them to an Italian league title ahead of a much stronger Juventus side. I expect be already has an idea of the players he wants to use and the system he's going to put them in even at this point - which is probably better than we've got right now. He won't suffer us being 20th in the work rate / defensive side of things. And he's a serial winner with an insane amount of touchline energy.
And - a big big big and - ask any Chelsea or Inter fan their opinion of the guy. There's genuine fear in football circles of what Conte would do with our squad Vs what we are doing right now.
The Manchester United way, whatever that is, is a bit of a myth at this point anyway, so look at the positives of Conte related to our club:
He clearly watches us a lot, after all he scouted out Darmian, Lukaku and Young and took them to an Italian league title ahead of a much stronger Juventus side. I expect be already has an idea of the players he wants to use and the system he's going to put them in even at this point - which is probably better than we've got right now. He won't suffer us being 20th in the work rate / defensive side of things. And he's a serial winner with an insane amount of touchline energy.
And - a big big big and - ask any Chelsea or Inter fan their opinion of the guy. There's genuine fear in football circles of what Conte would do with our squad Vs what we are doing right now.
Why isn't players being on bench good? Sancho and cavani seem to be on the bench more often than not. Its a long season, keeping players fresh instead of trying to put every attacker in the 11 seems a good idea especially given the results we are seeing. Most of our attackers don't track back. There's only so many players a team can carry in defense.
Our mf as it is right now cannot really play without a back 3. Back 3 would actually help cover positional difficulties of our mf, none of whom are particularly good at positional aspect of defending and we might actually be able to use the work rate of likes of bruno and fred without leaving large gaps for opponents to waltz through.
The problem with a 433 is we have no dm and even if we had one he wouldn't really make much of a difference, neither pogba nor bruno are good at defending, add Greenwood and ronaldo who refuse to do any tracking back or pressing, too much will be left to the dm and back 4.
352 on the other hand would make sure either ronaldo or greenwood are starting not both giving the team some legs, the wb's alongside rashdord/cavani, Fred, bruno etc will help us get much better at pressing opponents higher up the field. Something we can't do in a 433 unless likes of ronaldo and Greenwood drastically improve their work rate.
But like you said he's not as good there. You're just shoehorning names onto a team sheet then - much like Solskjaer is now, and you end up with a massively lopsided team as players tend to revert to their natural tendencies (which for Bruno is to play off the CF).Bruno has played in a 4-3-3 for Sporting and Portugal before as a midfielder. Its not his best position, but he can do well there under a good manager.
Secondly, we still don't have someone good enough to actually play in DM to singlehandedly balance that midfield. You'll need a prime Makelele to balance that midfield.
He's exactly what people don't want considering the complaints on here for the last few years about our style of play.
A few months ago the opinion would have been very different but we're at the 'anyone but Ole' stage where we're trying to convince ourselves it's a good thing.
I'm not claiming to be a man of high moral, but I rather fecking have a bad coach than a match fixing convicted one...
If he can make Eriksen perform deeper then maybe he can do the same for Bruno in a 3-4-3? Just an assumption
I get the fact that some people on here don’t like him.
But like him or not, Conte is a manager who would make Pep, Klopp and Tuchel sit up and take note.
But like him or not, Conte is a manager who would make Pep, Klopp and Tuchel sit up and take note.
Eriksen was never the same players under Conte, as he was for Tottenham. A player like Eriksen is not the type of player Conte will prefer. Eriksen became a problem in Inter; He was one of their best players, but he did not fit in Conte`s plans. The same will happen for many players in United; Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial and maybe Bruno will all be a challenge for Conte.
He is very much my first choice now. I wouldn't take Guardiola ahead of him at this point. This appointment makes so much sense on many levels.
I've mentioned it a number of times but my major concern with Conte is when the transfer window opens. He likes a lot of control and he's going to demand for players. The type of players he wants are also rather underwhelming and deviates from what the fans want to see. By the time he's done here he we could start hearing talks about cultural reset and long term rebuild and all that crap again
I don’t like the guy at all and I was dead against him being manager. I’ve tried over the last 24 hours to look in to it a bit more and try convince myself I can get behind him as manager. But ultimately, he’s x Chelsea, seems a horrible bloke, been convicted in some way for match fixing and even rumours he wanted a slice of transfer fees at Chelsea. Add in the tactical approach/formation change could mean yet another huge rebuild and bore us all to death again I am sorry I just can’t get up for this right now.
If Сonte comes, he will definitely want Robin Gosens at the lwb position and KieranTrippier at the rwb position. In the center he might want the world class player at CM position. Sancho, Diallo, Shoretire, Fred, Pogba, Lingard, Mata to the exit as unfit to play under Conte's system, it would be a real revolution.
Yeah I'm not feeling Conte at all
I disagree, Mata would definitely be of no use. but Pogba played his best football under Conte already, Sancho, Fred and Lingard are perfect for a Conte system.
Looks like Ole will be in the dugout for the Spurs game:
https://theathletic.com/2912538/202...hester-uniteds-squad-is-confused-and-divided/
Conte now into 4/6 to be next manager ….it’s starting to get interesting.
Finished 5th in his second season with Chelsea. I fear we will waste another 2 or 3 years with him. I'm not keen on his football either.
I dont think asking Bruno to play in a 3 man midfield is "shoehorning" as he has done that for most of his career, only at United has he been asked to play as a false 9, that too is a recent occurrence. Bruno has always been a midfielder. Sure he's not at his best, but its not like asking him to play in a 2 man midfield or something. No DM needs to "singlehandedly" balance a midfield, our DM(Matic or Fred) will have flanking 8s who will help them like McT, VdB or Bruno. When the DM has players like Fred, McT or VdB to help them out, they dont need to be prime Makelee, its not like I'm asking us to shoehorn Pogba and Bruno into a midfield 3.
Having Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Cavani and Bruno for 3 position is not healthy or smart. They are all starters in their own rights. Like I said nothing wrong with competition and having a strong bench, but this is overkill. Having Mason and Cavani on the bench is fine, but the other 4 can easily start in most formations which are not 3 atb.
I dont buy the "our midfield cant play without a back 3". No one was saying that before Conte was mentioned. There is no reason why Greenwood is unable to press when a 34 year old Cavani can. What they need is good coaching. I dont see why the below team cannot work :
---------------Matic
-----------Fred--Bruno
Sancho-Cavani-Ronaldo
With Rashford and Greenwood of the bench. Its a balanced team, and its not like I'm cramming all the star players in there.
The problem is, because we blindly backed Ole even though deep down we all knew he wasn't good enough (we were just hoping), there is no one else to bring in currently other that Conte. Ten hag won't leave, Zidane not interested. We should never have waited until panic stations. Ole has been stale for a year. We could have had Poch or Tuchel or even possibly Ten Hag in that time.
Who are all these young players people keep talking about?
De Gea 30
Henderson 24
Lindelof 27
Varane 28
Bailly 27
Maguire 28
AWB 23
Dalot 22
Shaw 26
Telles 28
Matic 33
Fred 27
McTominay 24
Pogba 28
Fernandes 27
Rashford 23
Lingard 28
Greenwood 20
Martial 25
Ronaldo 36
Cavani 33
Dalot and Greenwood are the only players in our squad with a realistic chance of starting games, who haven't hit well over 150 career appearances.
Our squad isn't filled with babies like we are being made to believe. We need to stop looking for a nanny, and actually start pushing this players to win. Rashford has made 320 career appearances, if he is still more worried about free flowing football, then he's got his priorities misplaced.
He started at Chelsea playing a back 4 and only switched to a 3 when that didn't work. The players we had suited a 3 with wingbacks si much better.
I don't think he's married to a back three at all. He's a pragmatic coach and will go with whatever works.
I don't think he's married to a back three at all. He's a pragmatic coach and will go with whatever works.
He was bickering with senior players and the board throughout the second season. He had alienated Diego Costa and Willian, and he wasn't happy with the calibre of players he was given after he won the title. He first asked for VVD, then Koulibaly but since those guys would cost over £70m, he was given Rudiger. He wanted Lukaku, he was given Morata. He wanted Alex Sandro, he was given Emerson. We spent over £200m that summer and ended up with a squad he wasn't happy with and he kept talking about it. We went from title winners to finishing 5th. Chelsea and Conte ended up going to court over the £9m severance package. A case Conte won.
Sounds like a Jose light tbh.
My main reservation with him is the formation and style of play.
We've spent 3 years rebuilding and assembling a good squad, where it's strengths are in the attacking 3rd. 3-5-2 doesn't fit well with who we have in the squad.
If he is comfortable with playing 4-3-3, I think it would be a good fit. I think Bruno needs to play a bit deeper for the sake of the team.
We've spent 3 years rebuilding and assembling a good squad, where it's strengths are in the attacking 3rd. 3-5-2 doesn't fit well with who we have in the squad.
If he is comfortable with playing 4-3-3, I think it would be a good fit. I think Bruno needs to play a bit deeper for the sake of the team.
There is much about Conte that I really like, but he has a clearly defined style of play, and that includes attacking width coming from WB areas.
Nothing wrong with that at all, except our squad is a mismatch for Conte's preferred style.
Where would Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial etc fit into Conte's scheme, I'm not sure that they would, and that in itself is a big problem.
We cannot have a manager start to dismantle the current squad and try to rebuild it again, we have to have a manager that will make the most of the players already here, plus making additions into central MF.
Nothing wrong with that at all, except our squad is a mismatch for Conte's preferred style.
Where would Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial etc fit into Conte's scheme, I'm not sure that they would, and that in itself is a big problem.
We cannot have a manager start to dismantle the current squad and try to rebuild it again, we have to have a manager that will make the most of the players already here, plus making additions into central MF.
Sancho, Fred, Lingard can't play in defense so will be useless, role Pogba will be taken by Bruno
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