I’m having a hard time looking for a reason to disagree with this assessment.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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It will depend on how well we do under Rangnick and the next permanent manager. If we also fail then Ole's time here will be remembered more favourably. However if this squad goes on to win trophies then we will look back and see his tenure as a massive failure where he was the one holding us back just as Lampard was to Chelsea.
Depends actually. If the team does well, but the new manager build everything from the ground up, in that case, he will not be viewed as favourably. However, if the next manager uses this squad and achieves success, you can make a case that he built a good enough side - And before people bring up "He spent 400m", Mou spent the same amount as well, and if we look into net spending Mou spent 20m more. LVG spent 310m or so in his 2 summers (so higher spend/summer)
I just hope the fans sing who put the ball... not Ole at the wheel. That would be cringeworthy and make a laughing stock again
I can recount some of the moments you might have missed.
1. FA cup winner vs Liverpool, 1999
2. Running back and hacking the opposition player who was through on goal to get himself sent off to save a point for the team.
3. 2006-07 he scored 11 goals and provided 6 assists. We won every game where he scored. Alan Smith, Saha were constantly injured and without him we wouldn't have broken a 4 year long title drought, longest under Fergie.
4. His exploits in the league in 97-00. We usually won when he scored.
I don't like Ole the manager. I would have sacked him 7 times in the past 3 years. But Ole is a club legend not cuz of that one goal but cuz he stuck with us even when he didn't get game time. His relationship with the fans was infectious and he was loved even before he scored that goal vs Bayern. He is as much of a Manc as Neville was. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Either talk in facts, or shut up. Don't get caught lying on social media.
As a player I loved him. As a manager when he came here I wanted him to succeed. More so than other managers like Moyes, Jose and LVG.
Then he got delusional and started talking about his brilliant coaching staff etc. We became clueless and disjointed. That's when I wanted him changed to someone who can compete.
I had this same issues with fans who supported Moyes, Jose and LVG over the club. I have no issues with fans celebrating legends as players. But as a manager he was a disaster.
I’m really struggling with the term ‘Legend’. I had an Solskjaer 20 shirt & idolised him but to me he was a ‘fan favourite’ not a ‘Legend’, that’s Rooney territory & he gets dogs abuse on here from some.
Don’t get me wrong, he stayed when he could have gone [all be it to Tottenham level clubs] & he has an obvious affinity for the club but we’ve been blessed with some seriously legendary players & I just don’t see it with him. Put it this way, would you call Nicky Butt a Club legend? Another player I probably rated too highly personally but I feel as if there’s a massive sense of sensationalism with OgS.
Legend - Noun - a famous or important person who is known for doing something extremely well
Critical goals, a trophy haul most players could only dream of and synonymous with the term super sub. You don't need to be a GOAT to be a legend.
Critical goals, a trophy haul most players could only dream of and synonymous with the term super sub. You don't need to be a GOAT to be a legend.
He left us in a better shape than where we were when Jose left.
That shouldn't have taken 3 years though - but it's hard to sack a man after he finished 2nd and got to the final of the Europa League. Certainly shouldn't have ever received a new contract though. Absurd considering he hadn't won anything.
That shouldn't have taken 3 years though - but it's hard to sack a man after he finished 2nd and got to the final of the Europa League. Certainly shouldn't have ever received a new contract though. Absurd considering he hadn't won anything.
He is a Manchester United legend but if people think the goal against Bayern doesn't play a large part in that they're being naive.
I mean he played second fiddle to Cole or Ruud during most of his time but he is a bigger legend than both.
I mean he played second fiddle to Cole or Ruud during most of his time but he is a bigger legend than both.
All I’m saying is, we pay tribute to his achievements as a legendary Man United player all the time, and rightly so. He put the ball in the Germans’ net in 1999, no one can ever take that away from him. However, he was an utter failure as a manager aside from a good 3 month spell, and finished off as one of the most derided managers in PL history, not helped by an even bigger failure at Cardiff in 2014.
By putting this banner out and paying tribute to the man after his sacking shows how far we’ve fallen. It’s nothing to do with his playing career, it’s just us sympathising with his sacking. In that case, where’s Mourinho’s gold statue? How about the LvG stand? Even Fergie didn’t get this. He was tactically rubbish, and lost a large portion of our dressing room by the end.
Also, before anyone says anything, of course I have no right to slate the actions of our match going fans. I’ve only been to OT once as a result of alternating between living in Malaysia and Oxford, while they’ve been hundreds of times. Heck, one of my life goals is to become an OT season ticket holder and be with them in the Stretford End. However, I am entitled to my opinion, and I think it is patently ridiculous. We ought to stop rewarding failure, and soon.
By putting this banner out and paying tribute to the man after his sacking shows how far we’ve fallen. It’s nothing to do with his playing career, it’s just us sympathising with his sacking. In that case, where’s Mourinho’s gold statue? How about the LvG stand? Even Fergie didn’t get this. He was tactically rubbish, and lost a large portion of our dressing room by the end.
Also, before anyone says anything, of course I have no right to slate the actions of our match going fans. I’ve only been to OT once as a result of alternating between living in Malaysia and Oxford, while they’ve been hundreds of times. Heck, one of my life goals is to become an OT season ticket holder and be with them in the Stretford End. However, I am entitled to my opinion, and I think it is patently ridiculous. We ought to stop rewarding failure, and soon.
Great argument. Do you disagree he's a club legend?
This is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody thought getting rid of Ole this season was the wrong decision, we're just sad that it didn't work out for a club legend.
The idea that match going fans holding a banner to pay tribute to said club legend makes them fans of Ole over United, while you're watching the match from your sofa, is absurd. It's almost like a reverse top red, but without any of the actual effort or investment.
With that midfield of giggs-scholes-keane-beckham providing the balls,
Any decent forward that comes off the bench is likely to hit similar figures.
Also, whoever was around that penalty box on that faithful night at nou camp, could also have stick the ball into the net.
Yes, iconic goal as it is, iconic moment for Ole but still.....
Let's not get too carried away here.
Any decent forward that comes off the bench is likely to hit similar figures.
Also, whoever was around that penalty box on that faithful night at nou camp, could also have stick the ball into the net.
Yes, iconic goal as it is, iconic moment for Ole but still.....
Let's not get too carried away here.
Your comparisons are laughably bad. Why did Ole get a banner and LvG and Mou didn't? Because Ole was a club legend even before his managerial reign (not to mention Mou spent his entire time here talking about how rubbish the club was).
You say Fergie didn't get anything like this, but he had a stand named after him. So you immediately contradicted yourself.
You are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you lack the emotional attachment to the club, and therefore the legends, that the regular fans have?
It's also possible they disagree with your assessment of him as a manager.
We aren't the first club to do this either - Chelsea did exactly the same for Lampard when he was sacked. It isn't rewarding failure, its just a tribute to a club legend.
The EL final is one of the reasons he should've been sacked. It's not an achievement, it's not even the bare minimum.
Good player, great servant to the club, fan favourite back in the early 2000s? - check, check, check. One of my favourites when I was playing football back in high school? Definitely.
Manchester United legend? Not really. Unless you really dilute the title 'legend'. To me that's for the likes of Charlton, Best, Robbo, Bruce, Scholes, Law et al. If he is one, then so are Yorke and Cole and John O'Shea and the lot of them between 1996 and 2007 so make of that what you will.
Manchester United legend? Not really. Unless you really dilute the title 'legend'. To me that's for the likes of Charlton, Best, Robbo, Bruce, Scholes, Law et al. If he is one, then so are Yorke and Cole and John O'Shea and the lot of them between 1996 and 2007 so make of that what you will.
Yeah but Ole is one part of a huge empire. Don't know why people would nominate him as the symbol of that era when we had so many greats
Be realisstic. You can't sack someone for losing a final. There was multiple times to sack him a long the course of his tenure - but that's not it. IF anything he probably should have been sacked for dropping out of the Champions League so limply.
They would because he was the one who was around in the last three years.
There's a fair few of them in this thread unfortunately haha.
It's not a reason not to sack someone either if you don't believe they have the ability to take the next step and that's the problem many have with the board, they couldn't see something so obvious.
There were 3 instances after the bad start of last season that made it clear -to anyone who still had doubts- that Ole is not good enough.
1. The capitulation in the CL group.
2. Not capitalizing on the chance to challenge for the league, we lost 13 points in 5 weeks after going top in January. People will say no one expected us to challenge but taking advantage of those opportunities is the mark of a good manager.
3. The way Ole managed the EL final from playing an unfit Rashford to not using his subs and generally our bland tactics on the night.
You need to improve your reading comprehension. You haven’t properly addressed a single point I made, so I’ll spell it out again.
Ole is getting a banner displayed in the Stretty in his first home game after leaving, for what, I’m not too sure. Did Fergie get one in that 0-0 draw against Chelsea in 2013? No, I thought as much. Fergie’s banners are those plastered on to the stand in recognition for his achievements, and deservedly so. Funnily enough, Ole also has one for what he did as a player.
Also, Ole’s achievements as a player have been celebrated time and time again in the multitude of songs dedicated to him, and we will continue to sing about May 1999, as we should. He is still a legend. Will we keep singing about LvG or Mourinho? No, because they are not legends. However, why is Ole getting this extra tribute when they didn’t after their respective sackings? Both won more trophies than Ole, even if Mourinho did shit talk the club, which should have had him sacked after that Sevilla game, the one good point you made. Mourinho also won 2.5 trophies and got 2nd place too.
Also, what does ‘regular fans’ mean? I genuinely do not understand so please elaborate. I can assure you that I have as much, if not more, emotional connection to our legends as anyone, so don’t worry about that. Forget the bona fide legends, I still have loads of affiliation for the likes of Rafael, Park and even Dan James, simply for always representing us with passion.
Also, the Lampard thing is different. Lampard is to them what Sir Bobby Charlton is to us.
This looks heavily biased due to a dislike of his managerial reign, given the players you're comparing Ole to, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd be really interested to know your criteria for what's required for you to use the word 'legend'.
Is it longevity? Ole was a player at United for 11 years, the same length of time as Law and Best, and slightly longer than Bruce, who are in your legends list. Yorke and Cole managed 4 and 6 respectively.
Is it performances? He's in the top 20 for goals per minute in PL history?
Is it trophies? Ole has won more with us than anyone on your list bar Scholes.
Perhaps it's loyalty? I don't remember him ever holding the club hostage or looking to leave. I'm sure you'd agree that Rooney and Ronaldo are legends, but the former threatened to leave multiple times to get a better contract, and the latter called himself a slave because we wouldn't ship him off to Madrid.
Is it just a gut feeling? If so, how do rationalise telling others who call him a legend that their gut feeling is wrong but yours is correct?
As I said, really interested to know how you qualify legends vs non legends.
Relative to the monumental farce that was our performance in the Manchester derby just a few weeks ago.
Lampard is Chelsea's Sir Bobby?
Even then, it isn't different by the logic you're using - he failed with them as a manager and got sacked, yet got a goodbye banner the next match, unlike the other managers on their carousel.The rest of your post is very catty, but my reading comprehension is fine - it was mainly that your points boiled down to silly nonsense comparisons with LvG and Mou, neither of whom had the connection to the club that Ole has. It's really not difficult to figure out why Ole is getting a tribute that Mou didn't. Both were sacked, but the similarities end there. One is a club legend who means a great deal to the fans, and treated the club with respect. The other threw everyone under the bus from day one, consistently talked down about the club, and created the most toxic atmosphere I've ever seen at the club.
I doubt you agree, but I'd take Ole's reign (consistency backing up a top 4 finish, progression up until this season) over Mou's reign (couple of second rate trophies by throwing away the league and generally being poisonous) every time.
As for 'regular fans', these are the fans that some of the plastics in this thread are claiming support Ole over United, even though they're the ones who actually make the sacrifices required to attend matches regularly. You can slate their actions as much as you like (your own words), and claim to have the emotional connection they do, but actions speak louder than words - they invest the time, money, effort, and energy required to attend matches.
On your one visit to Old Trafford did you notice the Alex Ferguson Statue outside the East stand, the entire north stand that is named after him or the massive tribute banner in that stand?
Wonder how many questioning whether or not Soslkjaer is a club legend came to this realisation before or after the last 18-24 months. Doubt many thought about it before 2019.
Isnt hindsight wonderful. He always had done enough he earned the opportunity to see how far he could take this team this season, he failed and he's been sacked.
Do we really need the i told you so's? Hes gone and we are moving into a new era there is only one way to look and that is forward not much point looking back at past mistakes.
Are we now allowing teenagers to post on here @mods?
When weren't teenagers allowed on the forum?
That I agree with you and that is why I doubt why we need to have this tribute to him now? At the first home game after he was sacked.
Sorry I of course meant pubescent teenagers.
Is Phil Neville considered a legend? He won six league titles and some cups.
And yes, Ole was a magnificent player for the club. Crap manager but fantastic player. Shame the injuries ruined his transition to a regular right wing/inside forward type in 2003/04.
Aren't all teenagers pubescent? Not many people going through puberty in their 20s.
Also what was teenagery about what they said?
Unmitigated? Fans clamoured for contract renewals when he was out coached in the Sevilla semi. Fans then brushed under the carpet the rather damning cup losses last season. What is unmitigated are the section of fans that continued to ignore results because he once played for us. It’s all well & good coming round to your senses when the wheels truly came off but a vocal number of this forum chastised anyone that dared question OgS up until about 2 months ago when the writing had long been on the cards.
Great argument. Do you disagree he's a club legend?
This is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody thought getting rid of Ole this season was the wrong decision, we're just sad that it didn't work out for a club legend.
The idea that match going fans holding a banner to pay tribute to said club legend makes them fans of Ole over United, while you're watching the match from your sofa, is absurd. It's almost like a reverse top red, but without any of the actual effort or investment.
It’s obvious you took offence to the ‘wow’ comment but it’d be nice if you could set aside emotion before hammering away at the keyboard next time. I’ve discussed his ‘legendary’ status elsewhere in the thread.
When did I say anything about matchgoing fans? You’re doing that typical Top Red thing of arguing over something that didn’t occur. My employer has a box at the ground & a good mate has season tickets, I’ve got decent access to a fair few matches but are you saying I need to go to the game tomorrow to validate my opinion [& others in this thread] that he was a ‘fan favourite’ rather than a legend? I’d call that Top Red nonsense. I’ve invested time & money into this club, by no means the most of any fan but you’re a cretin if you think only 76000 opinions matter.
I didn’t say fans paying tribute at tomorrow’s game means they’re putting Ole above the club, so get back in your soap box instead of jumping on it.
Puberty almost always occurs before a person hits their teenage years mate.
Regardless I agree there definitely is a lot of whiny children in this thread spouting bitter nonsense.
I didn't take offence to the "wow" comment, I simply laughed and pointed out that it's childish and offers nothing to the discussion.
Anyway, let's try to take the pettiness out of this and get back to the key point of the debate - I'm not interested in debating whether or not Ole was good or bad before this season, as we'll never agree on that.
With regards to match-going fans, you quoted me and another poster disagreeing over whether fans holding a banner for Ole were "Ole fans over United fans". You quoted a post saying "They have a deeper attachment to a club legend than the club itself." and you agreed with that statement. That statement is clearly nonsense, given that those fans will be at the match rather than hanging out with Ole.
Perhaps you misunderstood the point that the poster you quoted was making?
Yeah the irony is that the teenager comment is far more childish than the post quoted.
There are plenty of other websites you can visit if you have teenage boys on your mind.