Solskjaer's legacy and his future

[rotherham_red]

Okay, I see, apologies dude.

From the squad Ole inherited from Jose, only DDG, Shaw, Mctominay, Fred and Rashford make the starting eleven today (IMO). Of those 5, DDG, Shaw and Rashford were brought/promoted by LVG so Jose takes no credit for them. Mctominay and Fred are all Jose, though. It's probably fair to say that the majority of United fans wouldn't be too displeased if either of those players left the club.

It's entirely possible that come the close of this summers transfer window, nothing of Jose will remain at the club. Almost as if he never existed as a United manager.

They're tying themselves up in knots mate.

First, it was this squad is amazing, the manager is severely underperforming and needs to go/feck off/*insert random insult here*. Now, it's that the squad that was supposedly let down by the last guy isn't good enough and his rebuild that he absolutely did, wasn't actually that good. In which case, doesn't that mean the last guy actually did a good job(?)

Colour me confused

 

[R'hllor]

They're tying themselves up in knots mate.

First, it was this squad is amazing, the manager is severely underperforming and needs to go/feck off/*insert random insult here*. Now, it's that the squad that was supposedly let down by the last guy isn't good enough and his rebuild that he absolutely did, wasn't actually that good. In which case, doesn't that mean the last guy actually did a good job(?)

Colour me confused

Who is saying that squad was great before Ole sacking and now its not?

 

[Womp]

Despite that, he had a more positive impact on the club than his predecessors.

He achieved what he was employed to do; stabilise the club up after Jose did everything in his power to systematically dismantle it. It's not his fault the board delayed his departure. Had he been dismissed after the Liverpool game, when most would agree was the right time to do it, we'd be singing his praises right about now.

His status as a United legend is still firmly intact.

That was not what he was employed to do. He wasn't hired as a DOF. He was hired as a manager, this insistence on judging the manager of Manchester United as a DOF just to make him look better than he was, baffles me. If the intention was to just have someone who would get everyone back on board and happy etc. they could have hired anyone that had some sort of connection to the club. He was hired to win trophies and he failed miserably.

I'd also argue, his transfer record was very hit and miss too, especially given how large a budget he was given.

 

[Idxomer]

There's simply no tangible proof that this squad now is better than the one Mourinho left.

 

[Random Task]

They're tying themselves up in knots mate.

First, it was this squad is amazing, the manager is severely underperforming and needs to go/feck off/*insert random insult here*. Now, it's that the squad that was supposedly let down by the last guy isn't good enough and his rebuild that he absolutely did, wasn't actually that good. In which case, doesn't that mean the last guy actually did a good job(?)

Colour me confused

Think you just about nailed it.

 

[Random Task]

There's simply no tangible proof that this squad now is better than the one Mourinho left.

But it is, though. It just is.

 

[Max_United]

In my view the quality of players signed should be weigted a lot less when judging a manager in post-SAF era. By all indications, we have a transfer committee with manager being only one of the voices. There are plenty of players we targeted under different managers like Herrera, Maguire, Varane etc. Sure there were definite "LvG signings" or "Jose signings", but can somebody name a signing under Ole that was (a) definitely "his" signing, I.e. the fact that Ole was our manager contributed to the probability of us signing him either through his advocacy or connections - like Ibra, Depay, Blind for Jose/LvG and most importantly (b) was successful. Because only if we have (a) and (b) then Ole can get significant credit.

I think (outside of obvious "his" signings) the manager should be judged more on things like how he uses players, how they develop under him, youth promotion, style of play, tactics and team selection, since it is down either by him directly or by the staff who are his direct subordinates. But the part of our fanbase that is relatively more positive towards his reign tends to view squad quality as one of the primary factors in judging the manager. No wonder - Ole ultimately fell short significantly in basically all other respects, and if one (correctly in my view) weights players recruitment less in the assessment - Ole does not have much to stand on.

My take is that our recruitment improved in Ole era somewhat, albeit remained subpar (just think of how much lauded first summer window under Ole looks like now). So there is some limited amount of credit that can go around, but part of the improvement is likely due to other members of transfer committee making better decisions and part to sheer circumstances - like Varane and Ronaldo who became available - and we would have brought them under any other manger). Some credit probably goes to Ole, sure, but really in the end quite small and this should be an afterthought in his assessment with a small weight rather than one of the main things.

 

[Motorman]

Quite simple for me, as a player I don't think it needs further comments. He is a legend for our club. As a manager though, I would define it as:

"At a time when the club had lost its way, relations between players and existing manager were fractured and our preferred style of play was clearly out the window, Ole came in, removed a lot of deadwood, got the players believing in themselves again, brought in some great players in the transfer windows and restored some optimism around the place. Regardless of how it ended, he did his job, he turned things around and I'm proud of what he achieved."

 

[Tom Cato]

I don't know how people find it in their hearts to lament Ole getting disrespected while disrespecting previous managers this badly. I wasn't even a Jose ******* but he left a squad that came 2nd to one of the most dominant title sides in pl history, made a cup final, actually won trophies and when he was finally sacked left us higher on the table than where Ole left us. Yet it's so casually stated that he was worse than Ole.

Ole's stabilisation project also ended when he became full time manager, second season max. He was here for 3 years because people told us he needed time to win. The most frequently cited comparisons to Klopp and Fergie were in regards to winning trophies not a 3 year stabilisation project that would end with nothing to show for. Nobody planned to go 3 years winning nothing if there was no light at the end of the tunnel.

No one tell him where we placed in the league last season.

 

[R'hllor]

Poeple are really desperate to put themself into these manager corners. I mean who the feck cares, they all failed.

 

[Motorman]

No one tell him where we placed in the league last season.

 

[Greck]

No one tell him where we placed in the league last season.

are you just well..kinda obtuse about the whole thing? cos a lot will actually start to make sense. You do know how sentences work. His accomplishments didn't end at coming 2nd. He matched Ole there then surpassed him elsewhere. Finish reading next time.

 

[Greck]

Who is saying that squad was great before Ole sacking and now its not?

Thanks, It's almost like there are different opinions coming from different posters on a forum with thousands. Regardless of varying opinions on the various squads the reality even the biggest fanboys can all agree on is both guys failed relative to what they had. That's how they both ended up sacked. How do we spend 500m and talk about the state of the squad like it doesn't reflect poorly on the manager that spent it. Talk about catching one's self in a loop of excuses.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

If I was a betting man, I'd place the entire contents of my bank account (about 4 quid at the minute) on the team Ole left behind to run proverbial rings around Jose's team. It wouldn't even be close if we're being strictly honest.

We won't even bother comparing Ole's side to LVG's because LVG is a decent guy and doesn't deserve the ridicule. He also introduced Rashford at a time and place where few managers would have the balls to do so, plus he brought Shaw to the club.

Ole is a rank amateur by comparison to LVG and Jose, yet he left the club with a better squad than both of those giants of the game. How did that happen?

So the Watford team that battered United recently was better than our current squad?

Jose’s United never got humiliated.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Bearing in mind this was over a year ago, look at the teams that were beating us. His comments after Bournemouth beat us, are actually worse than anything Moyes said. If any other manager said that they’d be done there and then

 

[Foxbatt]

Hang on a bit. I am confused. I thought Ole was our manager and not our DOF?
So he had a team that would run rings around the team LVG and Jose had but he won feck all? LVG and Jose won trophies with much lesser teams so aren't they much better coaches than Ole?

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Okay, I see, apologies dude.

From the squad Ole inherited from Jose, only DDG, Shaw, Mctominay, Fred and Rashford make the starting eleven today (IMO). Of those 5, DDG, Shaw and Rashford were brought/promoted by LVG so Jose takes no credit for them. Mctominay and Fred are all Jose, though. It's probably fair to say that the majority of United fans wouldn't be too displeased if either of those players left the club.

It's entirely possible that come the close of this summers transfer window, nothing of Jose will remain at the club. Almost as if he never existed as a United manager.

Have you been watching Fred under Rangnick? Almost a different player, no not because of that goal he scored but his general play.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

There's simply no tangible proof that this squad now is better than the one Mourinho left.

I actually agree with this, Ole brought in some excellent players like Sancho, Bruno, Varane and Ronaldo, but as a squad, they haven't achieved anything yet, Jose left a squad that actually won 2 trophies.

 

[stevoc]

I'd hazard to guess all the other things in that sentence is where the good job came from and that part was challenging the notion Jose left us in a worse place.

The league position point is silly though. One more win and we'd have been 6th the same as when Jose was sacked so it has little or no relevance. Mourinho left a worse squad and atmosphere around the club that's mostly what people are referring to when they say Solskjaer left the club in a better place.

Plus you're also on here posting on xmas so did your reading comprehension take a day off?

Yeah my only post on the forum yesterday, how many posts did you have in this thread alone?

 

[stevoc]

No one tell him where we placed in the league last season.

 

[Random Task]

Have you been watching Fred under Rangnick? Almost a different player, no not because of that goal he scored but his general play.

Fred and Mctominay have both shown signs of improvement under Rangnick, to be fair. Remains to be seen whether they can continue improving and find consistency, but great if they can.

 

[Greck]

The league position point is silly though. One more win and we'd have been 6th the same as when Jose was sacked so it has little or no relevance. Mourinho left a worse squad and atmosphere around the club that's mostly what people are referring to when they say Solskjaer left the club in a better place.

No it was relevant to the post I was replying about Jose leaving the squad in a worse deconstructed state or similar words to that effect.

Yeah my only post on the forum yesterday, how many posts did you have in this thread alone?

I'll be honest I'm kind of in 2 minds about whether to reply this stuff but man, quit with the internet point counting. You were reading the thread, how many times you clicked reply doesn't take anything away from who you might be off the internet. If there was a game yesterday we'd all be here. It's not like everyone's culture even does Christmas.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Hang on a bit. I am confused. I thought Ole was our manager and not our DOF?
So he had a team that would run rings around the team LVG and Jose had but he won feck all? LVG and Jose won trophies with much lesser teams so aren't they much better coaches than Ole?

Is there a single person on this planet that doesn't know that LVG and Jose are miles better coaches than Ole?

 

[SAFMUTD]

His legacy is leaving us in a shitty place struggling for top 4. Rangnick is going to have to perform immediately in order to get top 4.

All this stuff about resting culture and intangibles are just horse shit.

 

[Berbasbullet]

His legacy is leaving us in a shitty place struggling for top 4. Rangnick is going to have to perform immediately in order to get top 4.

All this stuff about resting culture and intangibles are just horse shit.

What does that make your posts then?

 

[Foxbatt]

Is there a single person on this planet that doesn't know that LVG and Jose are miles better coaches than Ole?

I don't think so according to a lot of people here.

 

[Foxbatt]

His legacy is leaving us in a shitty place struggling for top 4. Rangnick is going to have to perform immediately in order to get top 4.

All this stuff about resting culture and intangibles are just horse shit.

This whole thing is really confusing. Jose and LVG winning trophies with a shit squad is much worse than Ole not winning anything with a much better squad?
RR has to work miracles to get us into the top 4. Arse and Spurs are on the roll.

 

[Andycoleno9]

What Ole brakes, nobody can fix. Absolutely amazing how shit job he did in last 3 years.
But if i must point at one thing (which would be his biggest mark) it would be;
Buying Harry Maguire for 80 million and making him a captain

 

[Andycoleno9]

This whole thing is really confusing. Jose and LVG winning trophies with a shit squad is much worse than Ole not winning anything with a much better squad?
RR has to work miracles to get us into the top 4. Arse and Spurs are on the roll.

If you are a Man Utd manager, you must:
1) Every day say the word "DNA" 20 times
2) Not park the car on Saf's spot
3) Talk about club's history every day
4) Remind fans every day how YOU have scored goals for United
5) Smile a lot

Do that and you are golden.

 

[stevoc]

No it was relevant to the post I was replying about Jose leaving the squad in a worse deconstructed state or similar words to that effect.

Well I mean he did.

I'll be honest I'm still struggling to see what the relevance of us sitting 2 point's off 6th at the time of Solskjaer's sacking is but whatever.

Apparently Solskjaer needed to go because he was an amateur coach holding back a World Class squad but now that's he's gone the narrative has changed to he left a poor squad. The truth as is often the case is somewhere in between I suspect.

I'll be honest I'm kind of in 2 minds about whether to reply this stuff but man, quit with the internet point counting. You were reading the thread, how many times you clicked reply doesn't take anything away from who you might be off the internet. If there was a game yesterday we'd all be here. It's not like everyone's culture even does Christmas.

You seem to have misunderstood. I didn't mean take a day off from posting I meant it's Xmas take a day off moaning about Solskjaer.

Out of interest does your culture ''do Christmas'''?

 

[Idxomer]

We had a more functional team when Mourinho left.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

ole left ralf a squad that should be able to beat newcastle. thrashed newcastle himself at the start of the season. might be hard for some of you guys to hear.

 

[mu4c_20le]

We had a more functional team when Mourinho left.

He made us tough to beat, but we had trouble scoring.

 

[AndySmith1990]

We had a more functional team when Mourinho left.

People don't seem to care about the functionality of the team though, they care about individual ratings on Fifa when assessing our squad. If we go by that then we do indeed have a better group of players now (who'd have thought spemding £400m would achieve that?) but if we look at the team he's left, it's a shambles.

 

[Greck]

Well I mean he did.

I'll be honest I'm still struggling to see what the relevance of us sitting 2 point's off 6th at the time of Solskjaer's sacking is but whatever.

Apparently Solskjaer needed to go because he was an amateur coach holding back a World Class squad but now that's he's gone the narrative has changed to he left a poor squad. The truth as is often the case is somewhere in between I suspect.

I mean...who built the team? Even our summer signings. Did you see how Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane perfromed tonight?

You seem to have misunderstood. I didn't mean take a day off from posting I meant it's Xmas take a day off moaning about Solskjaer.

Out of interest does your culture ''do Christmas'''?

and I say this with all due respect, sorry, not really your concern. Sorry, don't know you well enough. Since we now have some understanding let's not derail this thing anymore.

 

[Idxomer]

ole left ralf a squad that should be able to beat newcastle. thrashed newcastle himself at the start of the season. might be hard for some of you guys to hear.

I'm not sure picking individual games will help your argument.

I mean this is also a team that got thrashed by Watford and we weren't even anything special in that Newcastle game.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I'm not sure picking individual games will help your argument.

I mean this is also a team that got thrashed by Watford and we weren't even anything special in that Newcastle game.

ole left ralf a squad that should be able to do better than that performance today. there isn't a single thing you can say that is going to help your argument there

 

[mu4c_20le]

People don't seem to care about the functionality of the team though, they care about individual ratings on Fifa when assessing our squad. If we go by that then we do indeed have a better group of players now (who'd have thought spemding £400m would achieve that?) but if we look at the team he's left, it's a shambles.

Here's the team Jose left us.

Spoiler

Balance

 

[Idxomer]

ole left ralf a squad that should be able to do better than that performance today. there isn't a single thing you can say that is going to help your argument there

Yeah, this is another lost cause.

 

[R'hllor]

feck his legacy as a manager and feck everyone that uses our current shit situation to look back and big up their guy Ole, Jose, LvG, Moyes. They all are bunch of failures and got sacked for a reason, they left with coffers full money on top of it.

Someone should make a thread where you can rate and place in order post SAF managers, make sure your fav doesnt end up below Moyes...oh wait.