[troylocker]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

 

[Gawge]

Can we finally move him to his most effective role? Impact sub?

We're playing with 10 men now. In fact, it's a bit worse considering every pass towards him either get auto passed back or gets fumbled like your uncle 'rolling back the years' playing football at the bbq.
He is unfortunately the best defender for the opposite team.


Bring him on when we're 2-0 up for him to get a goal or two to keep him smiling. Bring him on in the 70th minute if we're 1-0 down for a massive physiological 'we will score' boost - which also keeps him smiling.

It's a win-win.

Why aren't we doing that?

Really think this is the only sensible way forward.

I can see the argument that Ronaldo could be the 'pièce de résistance' in an elite team, being a clinical finisher given regular chances by a well-drilled machine around him. Man Utd are not going to be that for 12 months in the most outlandishly optimistic scenario, which given Ronaldo's age doesn't make sense for him or the team.

In a team currently lacking cohesion or any sort of working system having Ronaldo is a hinderance, shown by his poor goal tally in the league. It's not his fault, but he isn't helping either. It's the wrong team at the wrong time for both parties.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

It doesn't seem a coincidence that the goals have dried up for other players since Ronaldo arrival

The other point is that unless Ronaldo can deliver trophies in the short term we should be prioritise the development if our younger players

Yep if you look at goals for other players in all competitions this season:

Fernandes, Greenwood - 5
Rashford - 3
Cavani, Fred, Lingard, Sancho - 2

19 league games done so halfway through the season. If this continues their final totals are trending to be:

Fernandes 10 (down 18 goals on last season)
Greenwood 10 (down 2)
Rashford 6 (down 15)
Cavani - 4 (down 13)
Lingard - 4 (down 5)
Sancho - 4 (down 12)

 

[Gehrman]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

Good post.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Really think this is the only sensible way forward.

I can see the argument that Ronaldo could be the 'pièce de résistance' in an elite team, being a clinical finisher given regular chances by a well-drilled machine around him. Man Utd are not going to be that for 12 months in the most outlandishly optimistic scenario, which given Ronaldo's age doesn't make sense for him or the team.

In a team currently lacking cohesion or any sort of working system having Ronaldo is a hinderance, shown by his poor goal tally in the league. It's not his fault, but he isn't helping either. It's the wrong team at the wrong time for both parties.

That argument never made sense to me. The thing about every well oiled football machine is that ever part is critical. Every player needs to do every element of their role to en exceptional standard. The idea that you could plunk someone into that machine who did nothing other than wait for chances to fall on his lap without making the team as a whole less effective as an attacking unit is surely a fallacy.

If we assume that Ronaldo is such an exceptional predator that he will somehow convert 10 chances into goals where a striker like, say, Greenwood would only convert 7 then that upside gets completely washed away if the overall poorer link up play between our forwards and attacking midfielder results in 50% fewer chances per game. And we don’t even need to be hypothetical about this. Since Ronaldo started playing for us our goals/game has declined dramatically.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Been like arguing with a wall that point all season, yet you still have some people here say he "ran more than the rest of the forwards combined".

 

[Ish]

It's evident. Instead of having a vision of the football we want to play we typically jump at the chance of signing a big name and that too one that has a connection with us, which is the perfect cocktail for our 'make a splash' midset. Screw building a team that has a certain ethic and system and carries that out to the tee, let's sign a star instead. So yeah, typical of us.

Yeah, agreed. He was the wrong signing for us. A short term signing which was not needed and his reputation and need to play has impacted team chemistry and cohesion, and it limits the sort of tactics we can play.

 

[NZT-One]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

Great post!
Thanks for putting it together and providing proof that data can support the eye test.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He's barely offering more than Martial at his worst but the perception is completely different.

Martial also dribbles far more than Ronaldo, closer to peak Ronaldo and his pace and dribbling allowed United to win penalties. Offers a unique challenge for centre backs when he runs at them directly. Note how few penalties we're getting since he stopped playing for us.

Last two seasons Martial averaged 1.6 dribbles per game in the league, Ronaldo is 0.8. Martial was fouled 1.3/1.2 times on average per match, Ronaldo is 0.6.

 

[Nordmore]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

Good post.

To your question, clicks and shirt sales. We're a Disneyland after all.

 

[goptun]

United is a fecking train wreck and the team quite frankly...is shite. Ronaldo is probably on of the last people to blame for thats going on in United not just this year but since 2013. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in LA LA land.

I'm sorry, but this is such agenda-driven rubbish. Ronaldo is a massive issue. You can't have an undroppable 37-year-old number 9 whose all-around game is extremely limited, who can't press and contribute to building attacking phases of play, and pretend like it's not a fecking issue!

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

This is a really excellent post, with an amazing amount of detail. If signing Ronaldo was Woodward's final act as head honcho of the transfer and footballing department at United, it's depressingly fitting.

Out of interest @troylocker, do you have the pressing numbers for all 20 leading forwards in the PL? It'd be interesting to compare each team's main man across the board and weigh up Ronaldo's net contribution.

 

[bdecuc]

Yeah, agreed. He was the wrong signing for us. A short term signing which was not needed and his reputation and need to play has impacted team chemistry and cohesion, and it limits the sort of tactics we can play.

And what's worse is it indicates (yet again) that the club is run by people who either have no understanding or don't care about winning football matches. We are run as an entertainment company with the goal of making money for the owners.

 

[Ixion]

Ronaldo just is what he is, he'll score some big goals that others might not and be anonymous much of the other time. I look back at the end of last season and inparticular the Europa League Final to see that he is not our biggest problem by a longshot, there are some major deficiencies in the squad before he arrived.

 

[Mickeza]

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.

Brilliant post.

 

[Ish]

And what's worse is it indicates (yet again) that the club is run by people who either have no understanding or don't care about winning football matches. We are run as an entertainment company with the goal of making money for the owners.

Yeah it was a signing made for all the wrong reasons - desperation because of the City links, sentimentality, marketing/commercial reasons etc. If he was signed as an impact player, who could bring professionalism and that winning mentality to the squad/youngsters, it could have been semi understandable - even at that huge wage. But that's not what Ronaldo wants - even at this stage of his career. He wants to win, he wants medals/trophies etc. but he's 37 and not the same player he was. It's been a terrible "fit" for both parties.

 

[Gehrman]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

These stats ignore his CL output though. Which I guess has been his major strength so far.

 

[Water Melon]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

Fan-bloody-tastic post and analysis there. I would use Cristiano as a super sub in the last 20-25 minutes to help him to do his thing against tiring opposition.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The decision to bring him back is exactly what is wrong with this club.

We win the headlines and transfer battles while City go out and win trophies.

It's true to be honest.

This entire club is backwards. I don't SAF think can be absolved of blame regarding Ronaldo either(even though I understood his angle).

 

[TMDaines]

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

How are you defining service? The raw xG of a centre forward? That makes little sense.

I'd argue there are many more insightful measures than that. One metric I'd put forward is the xGBuildup90 of teams, which makes for depressing reading for United. This metric shows the cumulative xG (divided by 90 minutes) of all moves a player is involved in that doesn't just have them either taking the final shot or playing the key pass for the shot. In the PL this season with a minimum of 500 minutes, the top 10 by this metric and the top United players are as follows:

#1 Rodri - 0.80
#2 Zinchenko - 0.78
#3 Thiago Silva - 0.68
#4 Kovacic - 0.67
#5 Laporte - 0.66
#6 Cancelo - 0.64
#7 Van Dijk - 0.63
#8 Jorginho - 0.62
#9 Milner - 0.62
#10 Fernandinho - 0.62

#49 Bruno Fernandes - 0.36
#57 Lindelof - 0.34
#78 Matic - 0.32
#92 Shaw - 0.27

Of the top 100 players in the league by this metric:

• All 17 of Manchester City's players to have played 500 minutes appear, including Ederson;
• All 16 of Liverpool's players to have played 500 minutes appear, including Alisson;
• 16 of Chelsea's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 9 of Arsenal's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 7 of Spurs's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 7 of Brighton's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 6 of West Ham's players to have played 500 minutes appear;

You get a sense of United's attacking dysfunction looking at this metric. United have so few players who regularly are involved in the build up of moves, making good decisions and able to progress the ball in search for a good opportunity. We have so many players at which moves regularly break down, or whom are overly dependent of shooting on sight. All the other teams near the top of the league have a team full of players who are able to pass the ball on and contribute to moves that end up in a shot at goal. United essentially are so dependent upon a few key players with an eye for a pass, whilst the rest of the team are a liability in progressing the ball.

You can replace Ronaldo with any of Greenwood, Martial, Rashford or Cavani, but this has nothing to do with us regularly fielding XIs that are completely incoherent in retaining and progressing the ball, in search of good opportunities for your forwards. That's what I would argue is poor service: we currently have an extremely midtable side on the ball.

Another useful metric is xGChain90, which again depicts United's dysfunctional attack. This measures all moves, including those a player just shoots at the end of or provides the key pass for. United again only have 5 players in the top 100 of the PL this season, including Ronaldo at #18, which suggests that Ronaldo is a useful spearhead of an otherwise broken attacking system.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How are you defining service? The raw xG of a centre forward? That makes little sense.

I'd argue there are many more insightful measures than that. One metric I'd put forward is the xGBuildup90 of teams, which makes for depressing reading for United. This metric shows the cumulative xG (divided by 90 minutes) of all moves a player is involved in that doesn't just have them either taking the final shot or playing the key pass for the shot. In the PL this season with a minimum of 500 minutes, the top 10 by this metric and the top United players are as follows:

#1 Rodri - 0.80
#2 Zinchenko - 0.78
#3 Thiago Silva - 0.68
#4 Kovacic - 0.67
#5 Laporte - 0.66
#6 Cancelo - 0.64
#7 Van Dijk - 0.63
#8 Jorginho - 0.62
#9 Milner - 0.62
#10 Fernandinho - 0.62

#49 Bruno Fernandes - 0.36
#57 Lindelof - 0.34
#78 Matic - 0.32
#92 Shaw - 0.27

Of the top 100 players in the league by this metric:

• All 17 of Manchester City's players to have played 500 minutes appear, including Ederson;
• All 16 of Liverpool's players to have played 500 minutes appear, including Alisson;
• 16 of Chelsea's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 9 of Arsenal's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 7 of Spurs's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 7 of Brighton's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 6 of West Ham's players to have played 500 minutes appear;

You get a sense of United's attacking dysfunction looking at this metric. United have so few players who regularly are involved in the build up of moves, making good decisions and able to progress the ball in search for a good opportunity. We have so many players at which moves regularly break down, or whom are overly dependent of shooting on sight. All the other teams near the top of the league have a team full of players who are able to pass the ball on and contribute to moves that end up in a shot at goal. United essentially are so dependent upon a few key players with an eye for a pass, whilst the rest of the team are a liability in progressing the ball.

You can replace Ronaldo with any of Greenwood, Martial, Rashford or Cavani, but this has nothing to do with us regularly fielding XIs that are completely incoherent in retaining and progressing the ball, in search of good opportunities for your forwards. That's what I would argue is poor service: we currently have an extremely midtable side on the ball.

Now do the same for last season. Before Ronaldo joined and became the lynch-pin around which this dysfunctional attack is supposed to revolve. Because last season only Manchester City scored more goals than us. So we were obviously doing something right in attack.

(I may be mangling my lynch-pin metaphors here, does anything revolve around a lynch-pin?)

 

[arthurka]

Ronaldo is a brand by now and we should accept that. The romance of him back and all that.
But I have a huge problem with United having two strikers with a combined age of 71.. That is just idiotic.
Ronaldo looks old and thats ok because he is, he shouldn´t be leading the line every single game and should be used much more wisely but sadly we no one else of any consistent caliber.

Hope Ralf gets on with the work that needs to be done on this squad, we have no fighters and grafters only pretty boys and posers.
From this squad I would keep :

DDG
Greenwood
Varane
McT
Rashford (think he is in a bad rut)
Fernandes

Rest can go for all I care.

 

[KennyBurner]

“You don’t pass up signing a player like Ronaldo” as if this is 2013.

 

[Mayhem]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

Good post, agree with this. He can still be an impact sub but we can’t build the team around him. Based on performances he shouldn’t be playing every game anyway.

 

[troylocker]

I'm sorry, but this is such agenda-driven rubbish. Ronaldo is a massive issue. You can't have an undroppable 37-year-old number 9 whose all-around game is extremely limited, who can't press and contribute to building attacking phases of play, and pretend like it's not a fecking issue!



This is a really excellent post, with an amazing amount of detail. If signing Ronaldo was Woodward's final act as head honcho of the transfer and footballing department at United, it's depressingly fitting.

Out of interest @troylocker, do you have the pressing numbers for all 20 leading forwards in the PL? It'd be interesting to compare each team's main man across the board and weigh up Ronaldo's net contribution.

Ok, here you go (only includes players with more than 500 minutes this season):

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Lacazette: 19,58 pressings per 90 / 5,94 successfull pressing per 90/ 9,69 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Auba: 17,48 pressings per 90 / 4,61 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,7 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Jota: 20,66 pressings per 90 / 5,66 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,89 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Firmino: 20 pressings per 90 / 6,94 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,16 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Kane: 11,38 pressings per 90 / 2,96 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,35 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Jesus: 14,55 pressings per 90 / 3,22 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,08 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Lukaku: 7,93 pressings per 90 / 2,83 successfull pressing per 90/ 3,91 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Werner: 19,84 pressings per 90 / 5,08 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,66 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Greenwood: 11,30 pressings per 90 / 3,13 successfull pressing per 90/ 4,52 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Cavani: 12,65 pressings per 90 / 4,49 successfull pressing per 90/ 5,51 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Jimenez: 14,70 pressings per 90 / 4,22 successfull pressing per 90/ 5,91 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Vardy: 12,86 pressings per 90 / 3,33 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,94 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Iheanacho: 17,58 pressings per 90 / 5,15 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,42 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Benteke: 9,16 pressings per 90 / 2,44 successfull pressing per 90/ 4,45 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Eduoard: 14,76 pressings per 90 / 4,34 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Toney: 13,65 pressings per 90 / 3,47 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,00 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Ings: 16,96 pressings per 90 / 3,30 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,0 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Broja: 19,63 pressings per 90 / 6,38 successfull pressing per 90/ 11,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Armstrong: 14,38 pressings per 90 / 3,92 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,61 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Rodrigo: 14,7 pressings per 90 / 4,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,0 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Wood: 12,96 pressings per 90 / 3,95 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,11 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Wilson: 11,97 pressings per 90 / 2,58 successfull pressing per 90/ 6,14 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Pukki: 19,88 pressings per 90 / 4,42 successfull pressing per 90/ 9,71 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

Not very surprising to find Lukaku and Benteke just above Ronaldo. DCL will be down there with the worst of them if he doesn't improve his pressing numbers in the next few games.

 

[TMDaines]

Now do the same for last season. Before Ronaldo joined and became the lynch-pin around which this dysfunctional attack is supposed to revolve. Because last season only Manchester City scored more goals than us. So we were obviously doing something right in attack.

I can do, but as you have suggested United's attack was more functional last season. There's not much doubt about that. Last season we were passing the ball from back to front much more effectively.

There's little in the data to suggest that Ronaldo is the cause of United's dysfunction in the 21-22 season though. Even just looking at the small sample of the first three league games this season without Ronaldo, our chances were not the product of many highly involved team moves. Only Lindelof has impressive xGBuildup90 numbers across those three matches, everyone else would be below the rate threshold to make the top 100 or players in the league.

Cavani and Martial are even poorer than Ronaldo at both xGChain90 and XGBuildup90, both this season and last. They are no more suited to build-up aspects of centre forward play and the data would suggest that, Cavani especially, may even be quite a bit worse. Take a look at the comparisons between Ronaldo, Cavani and Martial, either isolating the data to the last two seasons, or just this one: https://understat.com/player/2371. Feel free to do the same for Greenwood and Rashford too. Ronaldo even compares favourably to a player like Haaland on xGBuildup 90 and other metrics, even Lewandowski too who is playing for a highly functional attack and so is bound to have superior xG and xGChain90.

I genuinely am a bit confused what people are expecting from Ronaldo. He's a centre forward. If you want your lethal spearhead to be effective, you also need to fashion a decent shaft to have a potent weapon. We right now are attaching our sharp spearhead to a bundle of twigs and wondering we aren't causing any damage.

I've got no vested interest in United only being successful with Ronaldo up top. I'll be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong and will gladly take it on the chin, if Rangnick jettisons Ronaldo and United immediately pick up. I just don't see any evidence for why that would be the case. I think people are engaging in overly reductive, causal fallacies again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can do, but as you have suggested United's attack was more functional last season. There's not much doubt about that. Last season we were passing the ball from back to front much more effectively.

There's little in the data to suggest that Ronaldo is the cause of United's dysfunction in the 21-22 season though. Even just looking at the small sample of the first three league games this season without Ronaldo, our chances were not the product of many highly involved team moves. Only Lindelof has impressive xGBuildup90 numbers across those three matches, everyone else would be below the rate threshold to make the top 100 or players in the league.

Cavani and Martial are even poorer than Ronaldo at both xGChain90 and XGBuildup90, both this season and last. They are no more suited to build-up aspects of centre forward play and the data would suggest that, Cavani especially, may even be quite a bit worse. Take a look at the comparisons between Ronaldo, Cavani and Martial, either isolating the data to the last two seasons, or just this one: https://understat.com/player/2371. Feel free to do the same for Greenwood and Rashford too. Ronaldo even compares favourably to a player like Haaland on xGBuildup 90 and other metrics, even Lewandowski too who is playing for a highly functional attack and so is bound to have superior xG and xGChain90.

I genuinely am a bit confused what people are expecting from Ronaldo. He's a centre forward. If you want your lethal spearhead to be effective, you also need to fashion a decent shaft to have a potent weapon. We right now are attaching our sharp spearhead to a bundle of twigs and wondering we aren't causing any damage.

I've got no vested interest in United only being successful with Ronaldo up top. I'll be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong and will gladly take it on the chin, if Rangnick jettisons Ronaldo and United immediately pick up. I just don't see any evidence for why that would be the case. I think people are engaging in overly reductive, causal fallacies again.

The first paragraph is exactly what I was looking for (and expected). Trying to integrate Ronaldo into our team has made us a much less potent attacking force. Thanks.

 

[Beachryan]

It's fine to have a player like him in the squad. It's not fine to start him every match and play him for the 90.

I genuinely expected this to one of the first changes Ragnick made. I really, really, REALLY hope the manager isn't getting pressure from above to play him for some non-footballing reasons.

Excellent analysis above by @troylocker - meets with what the eye was telling me: he's not even been that clinical. Do we really believe Greenwood would have fewer goals if given similar license to hang about up top?

 

[TMDaines]

The first paragraph is exactly what I was looking for (and expected). Trying to integrate Ronaldo into our team has made us a much less potent attacking force. Thanks.

Don't be a dick. The data doesn't really show that. Last season we had 54.8 NPxG across 38 games, for 1.44 NPxG per match. This season we have 26.12 NPxG across 19 games, for 1.37 NPxG. It's lower, but we've not gone from a potent attack to an impotent one. We still had fewer players than City, Chelsea and Liverpool ranking high on build up metrics even last season.

So your hypothesis is that if United ditch Ronaldo and just play Cavani and/or Martial up top, all the other problems in the side will dissipate and we will at least be back to where we were last season (even though the data suggests they are less effective goalscorers and even all-round centre forwards)? Presumably, we would be even better given the positive comments on the suitability of the Varane and Sancho signings you have made in the last 24 hours, in contrast to the signing of Ronaldo?

 

[honirelandboy]

Its hard to say but him and Cavani are not top six quality. I was nearly embarrassed watching them last night.

They can barely control the ball or pass or shoot anymore and take an age to turn with it.

I though Rangnick would have Greenwood and Rashford starting and make them work there socks off with pressing.

I also though Jesse Lingard would be his style of player and would go 4-3-3.

I'm not impressed whatsoever so far. We badly need two new center midfielders.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Oh dear. We wouldn’t even be in the knockout stages of the CL without him but yes he’s the problem. Not the goalkeeper who’s glued to his line, who still can’t command his box. Not the right back who’s got about as much ability on the ball as me. Not the world record CB who shouldn’t be making a match day squad. Not the non existent midfield. Not the £73m winger who can’t seem to beat his man. Not the home grown kid who’s more concerned about campaigning more than playing football. No, none of those. Our biggest problem is the guy who either scores every match or at least looks the most likely. Something something he doesn’t press enough.

Gotta say, I agree with this.

I do think Ronaldo's legs have gone mind, but he is far from the biggest issue.

 

[troylocker]

How are you defining service? The raw xG of a centre forward? That makes little sense.

I'd argue there are many more insightful measures than that. One metric I'd put forward is the xGBuildup90 of teams, which makes for depressing reading for United. This metric shows the cumulative xG (divided by 90 minutes) of all moves a player is involved in that doesn't just have them either taking the final shot or playing the key pass for the shot. In the PL this season with a minimum of 500 minutes, the top 10 by this metric and the top United players are as follows:

#1 Rodri - 0.80
#2 Zinchenko - 0.78
#3 Thiago Silva - 0.68
#4 Kovacic - 0.67
#5 Laporte - 0.66
#6 Cancelo - 0.64
#7 Van Dijk - 0.63
#8 Jorginho - 0.62
#9 Milner - 0.62
#10 Fernandinho - 0.62

#49 Bruno Fernandes - 0.36
#57 Lindelof - 0.34
#78 Matic - 0.32
#92 Shaw - 0.27

Of the top 100 players in the league by this metric:

• All 17 of Manchester City's players to have played 500 minutes appear, including Ederson;
• All 16 of Liverpool's players to have played 500 minutes appear, including Alisson;
• 16 of Chelsea's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 9 of Arsenal's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 7 of Spurs's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 7 of Brighton's players to have played 500 minutes appear;
• 6 of West Ham's players to have played 500 minutes appear;

You get a sense of United's attacking dysfunction looking at this metric. United have so few players who regularly are involved in the build up of moves, making good decisions and able to progress the ball in search for a good opportunity. We have so many players at which moves regularly break down, or whom are overly dependent of shooting on sight. All the other teams near the top of the league have a team full of players who are able to pass the ball on and contribute to moves that end up in a shot at goal. United essentially are so dependent upon a few key players with an eye for a pass, whilst the rest of the team are a liability in progressing the ball.

You can replace Ronaldo with any of Greenwood, Martial, Rashford or Cavani, but this has nothing to do with us regularly fielding XIs that are completely incoherent in retaining and progressing the ball, in search of good opportunities for your forwards. That's what I would argue is poor service: we currently have an extremely midtable side on the ball.

Another useful metric is xGChain90, which again depicts United's dysfunctional attack. This measures all moves, including those a player just shoots at the end of or provides the key pass for. United again only have 5 players in the top 100 of the PL this season, including Ronaldo at #18, which suggests that Ronaldo is a useful spearhead of an otherwise broken attacking system.

Haha!
That metric doesn't tell you anything other than the fact that we create fewer chances as a team than the teams ahead of us on the table. Out of the 48 players ahead of Bruno on that list, only 1 player is playing for a team below us on the table. City literally produces 0,95 xG more than us per 90, of course all their regular starters will be above ours in a xGBuildup list, same goes for Chelsea and Liverpool.
If you read the whole post you would see why I mean we produce fewer chances and are dysfunctional this season. What we do when we lose the ball and don't have the ball in general is our problem this season. Another problem is that Ronaldo is too much of a focal point and gets too much of our passing focus when we are attacking, while also providing very little link up play. When the player that has the second most finishes in the league plays for the team placed 7 on the table, he gets good service. His finishing in the league has been very poor. (not in the CL though)

 

[Bebestation]

Haha!
That metric doesn't tell you anything other than the fact that we create fewer chances as a team than the teams ahead of us on the table. Out of the 48 players ahead of Bruno on that list, only 1 player is playing for a team below us on the table. City literally produces 0,95 xG more than us per 90, of course all their regular starters will be above ours in a xGBuildup list, same goes for Chelsea and Liverpool.
If you read the whole post you would see why I mean we produce fewer chances and are dysfunctional this season. What we do when we lose the ball and don't have the ball in general is our problem this season. Another problem is that Ronaldo is too much of a focal point and gets too much of our passing focus when we are attacking, while also providing very little link up play. When the player that has the second most finishes in the league plays for the team placed 7 on the table, he gets good service. His finishing in the league has been very poor. (not in the CL though)

I'm so glad I'm not just the only one who sees this.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't be a dick. The data doesn't really show that. Last season we had 54.8 NPxG across 38 games, for 1.44 NPxG per match. This season we have 26.12 NPxG across 19 games, for 1.37 NPxG. It's lower, but we've not gone from a potent attack to an impotent one. We still had fewer players than City, Chelsea and Liverpool ranking high on build up metrics even last season.

So your hypothesis is that if United ditch Ronaldo and just play Cavani and/or Martial up top, all the other problems in the side will dissipate and we will at least be back to where we were last season (even though the data suggests they are less effective goalscorers and even all-round centre forwards)? Presumably, we would be even better given the positive comments on the suitability of the Varane and Sancho signings you have made in the last 24 hours, in contrast to the signing of Ronaldo?

Why do people keep saying this?! Of course the other problems won’t go away. As you yourself have said, we were a flawed team last season. Dropping Ronaldo won’t change that at all.

What you need to ask yourself is has Ronaldo improved us as an attacking force? I honestly don’t understand how anyone with any clue about football can have watched us since Ronaldo started playing and conclude that the answer is “yes”. And if he hasn’t improved us, why did we sign him? Because it was sure as shit always going to create a headache for any manager to manage the decline of such a uniquely high maintenance footballer.

As for Varane, our goals conceded per game with/without him show an obvious positive impact. The worry is keeping him fit enough to play a long run of games (and who should be his partner)

Sancho’s been basically a bit shit. It’s a worry. But he’s yong and lernin. We haven’t been able to use that excuse about Ronaldo for over a decade

 

[Noot]

Im sorry but some of the stuff read on here has been absolute shite (with some truth).

Blaming Ronaldo for how United has performed this season is lazy and nonsensical. United (with all due respect) were complete shite before he got here

I thought they looked pretty good with Cavani, Greenwood as the forward options. At least they had a plan that made sense.

 

[Josh 76]

The thing that also handicaps Utd with Ronaldo in the team is other players raise their game against him.

Players in their mid 20s must have grown up watching Ronaldo at his peak banging in the goals and lifting trophy after trophy. Watching one of the GOAT.

Now they have a chance to play against him and for many of them it must be surreal. We all know Ronaldo isn’t that same player, but it’s still Ronaldo for all these players. This scenario just adds more problems for Ronaldo and Utd.

 

[TMDaines]

Why do people keep saying this?! Of course the other problems won’t go away. As you yourself have said, we were a flawed team last season. Dropping Ronaldo won’t change that at all.

What you need to ask yourself is has Ronaldo improved us as an attacking force? I honestly don’t understand how anyone with any clue about football can have watched us since Ronaldo started playing and conclude that the answer is “yes”. And if he hasn’t improved us, why did we sign him? Because it was sure as shit always going to create a headache for any manager to manage the decline of such a uniquely high maintenance footballer.

As for Varane, our goals conceded per game with/without him show an obvious positive impact. The worry is keeping him fit enough to play a long run of games (and who should be his partner)

Sancho’s been basically a bit shit. It’s a worry. But he’s yong and lernin. We haven’t been able to use that excuse about Ronaldo for over a decade

Well, no, we haven't improved in an attacking sense since signing Ronaldo, but Ronaldo's signing and presence in the team is a causal oversimplification for explaining all of our issues. Regardless of whether we have buyer's remorse or not, he still a player available to us at the club and we still have to find the best solution available to us with the players that we have.

 

[Ash_G]

I think it's clear that Ronaldo isn't playing well but at the same time given how many key goals he's scored already I don't think he is the biggest issue right now.

I know people have referenced if he is inhibiting other players but I don't see it that way. I think for example with Greenwood that on his own Greenwood being relatively selfish/focussed on creating an opp for himself isn't an issue but when you throw in that 1. We can't control games and are often on the backfoot, and 2. our other senior attackers aren't playing well/making good decisions that it really compounds the situation.

I personally don't see how Ronaldo is the one causing Bruno's issues as they've always been there with him just masked by the initial form he had/pens he scored, Cavani/Sancho's sloppiness with the ball, Rashfords decision making. Ronaldo is still making excellent runs that create chances for him and others. Yes he's got a lot of downsides to his game and the team do need to carry him a bit but I think he's still bringing something which I don't think you can say for the other senior attackers at the moment.

 

[moses]

does anything revolve around a lynch-pin?

In a way, but also not, it usually holds spinning or rotating parts in place. It's not a fulcrum as much as an anchor. Kinda. It's a serviceable metaphor. And poetic in comparison to a lot of what gets posted here.

 

[Bebestation]

Greenwood's selfishness, Rashford's selfishness, Cavani's selfishness - it was all fine when they were playing off of Bruno's creativity last season. Even Bruno was being selfish at times and scoring goals.

Once Ronaldo came, everyone being selfish became a problem because Ronaldo needs all the creativity from everyone and no one can be selfish anymore.

It wasn't a problem to anyone before.

 

[captaincantona]

Sorry, all, this will be a long post.
I'll explain how Ronaldo is the biggest problem we have and how he no longer is what he used to be.

I'll start with the simple stuff: How is he doing as a striker when we have the ball compared to average strikers in the PL.

- Does he get enough service/is he good at finding himself in good scoring positions to finish off chances?

Ronaldo has the 3rd highest npxG90 in the League with 0,58 npxG90 (non penalty expected goals per 90 minutes. Calculated from every chance a player has had during this season and how many goals an average finisher in the top 5 leagues is expected score from those chance using different matrix), only beaten by Salah (0,75) and Jota (0,67), in the PL. In other words Ronaldo seems to get both good service and still be good at making himself available for service. Not like in the good old days, and his npxG90 has had a negative trend since his golden years at Real Madrid, but still good. Since 2014 his npxG90 has varied from 0,6-0,94 at Real Madrid and Juventus.

Let's compare his output with some random strikers in the PL (all the numbers given are per 90 minutes on the pitch):

Non penalty goals and full 90s played/Shots per 90/Shots on target per 90/nxpG90/non-penalty goals per 90/diff (goal - npgX90)

Ronaldo: 6 non penalty goals in 14,8 full 90s / 3,80 (56 shots)/1,29 (19 shots on target) /0,58 (npxG90) /0,41 (np Goals90)/ -0,17 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 29,3%)
Antonio: 8 non penalty goals in 18,4 full 90s / 2,93 (54 shots)/0,92 (17 shots on target)/0,44 (npxG90)/0,43 (np Goals90)/ -0,01 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 2,3%)
Dennis: 8 non penalty goals in 14,5 full 90s / 2,42 (35 shots)/1,38 (20 shots on target)/0,24 (npxG90)/0,55 (np Goals90)/ +0,31 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 129,2%)
Maupay: 6 non penalty goals in 14,3 full 90s / 2,24 (32 shots)/0,92 (9 shots on target)/0,36 (npxG90)/0,42 (np Goals90)/ +0,06 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 16,7%)
Watkins: 5 non penalty goals in 15,1 full 90s / 2,31 (35 shots)/1,06 (16 shots on target)/0,38 (npxG90)/0,33 (np Goals90)/ -0,05 (Underperforming his npxG90 by 15,1%)
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 10 non penalty goals in 10,0 full 90s / 4,10 (41 shots)/1,80 (18 shots on target)/0,65 (npxG90)/1,0 (np Goals90)/ +0,35 (Overperforming his npxG90 by 53,8%)

Ronaldo has the 2nd most finishes per 90 in the league (beaten only by Salah), the 3rd highest npxG90 and still sits on just 6 non penalty goals (shared 10th with 5 other players in the league). He is getting 2nd most service in the league, to claim anything else is just a lie. He has hit a couple of brilliant goals this season, but he misses more chances than most in the league.

Assists and setting up teammates inside the box:
PPA90 (completed passes into the penalty box excluding set pieces per 90)Assists/xA90/A per 90

Ronaldo: 0,41 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/3 assists/0,11xA90/0,20 assists per 90.
Antonio: 0,92 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,24xA90/0,27 assists per 90.
Dennis: 0,62 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,17xA90/0,34 assists per 90.
Maupay: 0,77 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,11xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
Watkins: 0,66 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/1 assists/0,06xA90/0,07 assists per 90.
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 1,3 completed passes into the penalty box per 90/5 assists/0,31xA90/0,50 assists per 90.

Dispite a couple of brilliant headers to teammates he rarely looks for teammates when closing in on goal, compared to other forwards. Ronaldo and Dennis' teammates have made them look better than they are at creating chances by massively overachieving their chances from passes from them. His link up play simply hasn't been very impressive for us.
Bruno for instance has been let down by bad finishing from his teammates this season (0,28xA90 /0,18 assists per 90)

Now to the most depressing part: Pressing

Pressings per 90/successfull pressings per 90/pressings in the attacking 3rd

Ronaldo: 6,28 pressings per 90 / 1,69 successfull pressing per 90/ 2,84 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90 (!!)
Antonio: 13,3 pressings per 90 / 3,97 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,01 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Dennis: 20,8 pressings per 90 / 4,76 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,31 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Maupay: 19,9 pressings per 90 / 5,73 successfull pressing per 90/ 10,49 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
Watkins: 15,43 pressings per 90 / 4,17 successfull pressing per 90/ 7,48 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90
+ dream target from Bundesliga:
Haaland: 12,6 pressings per 90 / 3,6 successfull pressing per 90/ 8,5 pressings in the attacking 3rd per 90

His pressing is historically bad, that is why it is an issue and why we talk about it. If he just did the minimum, maybe the story would be different, but he doesn't even do half of the minimum in the attacking third. When we lose the ball he moans and throws his arms up in the air instead of chasing the ball. Most chances in football are created when you catch the opponent when it is unorganized, and the closer you get to the opponents goal when you gain possession the more unorganized the opponent is. The same goes for the faster you gain possession after you lose it the more unorganized the opponents are. Now look at the numbers above and explain to me how his workrate when we lose the ball or when we in general do not have the ball doesn't affect our general play and chance creationrate.

Playing a striker like him means the following:
- We win the ball when the opponent is unorganized less often
- We play against organized defenses more often
- We let our opponents enter our half with the ball more often
- All our outfield player except Ronaldo gets a higher workload and must cover larger areas to cover for him, which leads to more room for our opponents and our players getting more pumped and plays worse football.

....and when, as showed above, he doesn't even add more goals or isn't more effective than an average PL striker.
What's the point!?

Where were you when I needed you in here two months ago!