I dont know why Ralf has dropped Dalot. Granted he is not a world beater but he was decent while he started and had a good cameo in the last game. Also I think starting Matic was a mistake. There was no link up whatsoever in the middle. What does Donny need to do some game time? Its very obvious that our midfield is not functioning so why not try him. Can’t get worse than this. I guess Ralf should ditch this 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 and go for 3 in the middle. Looks like thats the only way we can “control” games.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
- Start date
- Status
Agreed on this, seeing barely any evidence of it. There was a bit more yesterday than versus Newcastle where it was non-existent, but basically zero intensity overall.
The main changes from the way we played overall seems to be
1. more usage of long ball tactics
2. limiting freedom of our attacking players (mainly Bruno)
I was expecting high energy, aggression, and probing passing. None of that is evident at the moment.
Part of what pisses me off here is that we're comparing the football now to earlier this season which was full on fecking meltdown/disaster scenario, that's an unfair assessment.
We should be comparing to the two seasons prior, overall I think we were far better playing Ole's style of football to what we're seeing now. Certainly from the perspective of my own personal enjoyment.
All that said, the size of the task Rangnick has at the moment is ridiculous and he is not helped by only being on a six month contract. He also arguably is another example of an appointment by the board who haven't a clue - another complete swerve in footballing direction, when stabilisation was needed for the remainder of the season.
He is turning out to be a really poor man's hybrid of Mourinho and van gaal. We are dull as hell to watch, he is sticking players in weird positions that don't lend to their strengths and is using route one football.
So much for rock and roll football, eh?
I also wonder why the new manager is showing the same favoritism to the same players as the previous one did (ie. Maguire, McTominay…).
This is not the reset that a new manager is supposed to bring with him. Other than the formation, nothing has changed on the pitch.
I just wonder if he’s actually been given the freedom to change things or if he’s just here to continue on from the previous regime.
Are we really so uncoachable that we can't even emulate the defensive solidarity of the mid-table Prem teams?
Forget pressing or tiki-taka or whatever. Just get the basics right. The very basics. I don't even mind route one football if we can keep 4 or 5 clean sheets in a row.
I just want to lose this dread of conceding a goal every time we get turned over in possession.
Forget pressing or tiki-taka or whatever. Just get the basics right. The very basics. I don't even mind route one football if we can keep 4 or 5 clean sheets in a row.
I just want to lose this dread of conceding a goal every time we get turned over in possession.
On the flipside, how did Chelsea still manage to do better than this under interim or short-term managers such as Hiddink, Di Matteo, Grant, Benitez? Why didn’t those managers have their authority questioned by the players during their time there?
It's not been a good start but give him time.
He's come into a very disjointed team. The Conte situation was not as complex. At United you have more challenging self entitled players and much more pressure. The players liked Ole too. The Spurs players were happy to see Nuno go.
I think we need three midfielders to compensate for the lack of quality in that area. The system at the moment isn't working. Cavani and Ronaldo are like playing with two men down when the game isn't under control.
He's come into a very disjointed team. The Conte situation was not as complex. At United you have more challenging self entitled players and much more pressure. The players liked Ole too. The Spurs players were happy to see Nuno go.
I think we need three midfielders to compensate for the lack of quality in that area. The system at the moment isn't working. Cavani and Ronaldo are like playing with two men down when the game isn't under control.
Chelsea have less players on ridiculous contracts that they won't get anywhere else. They also know that Abramovic at the top won't take any nonsense.
Then the problem is coming from bad management at the top. Not with the length of the contract.
It's because of a lack of fitness + personnel for the press.
They were gassed after the first half vs Palace. Impossible to keep that up without incurring considerable injuries and significant fatigue.
Look at the personnel yesterday, who exactly is going to press?
We have two old CFs, two very slow/immobile CMs and we've got Sancho and Greenwood who aren't known for their work ethic.
The personnel are not suited for the press.
I think we need to accept there will be no overnight miracles.
We probably aren't going to be buying/selling in january either, so I don't see how we can change things.
What he needs to realise though is his 4-2-2-2 isn't working with this squad. He needs to either pick Cavani or Ronaldo, not both.
Perhaps save it for a hail mary at the end, but we cannot keep having 4 player standing up front with no movement.
We probably aren't going to be buying/selling in january either, so I don't see how we can change things.
What he needs to realise though is his 4-2-2-2 isn't working with this squad. He needs to either pick Cavani or Ronaldo, not both.
Perhaps save it for a hail mary at the end, but we cannot keep having 4 player standing up front with no movement.
I had been getting LVG vibes so far, but weirdly there is a lot of Mourinho in what we've seen on the pitch.
Ronaldo/Cavani striker partnership is Mou all over, as is the safety first approach and reversion to long ball tactics.
His straight talking nature around the players is also Mourinho-esque, this is going to be quite jarring for the players who were constantly protected by Ole. They need a kick up the arse, but are they going to take it from a man who is only in the job for six months max?
Not saying either approach to man management is right or wrong, more just making an observation that this appointment has been another random twist, rather than a logical step in terms of our overall evolution.
Ronaldo/Cavani striker partnership is Mou all over, as is the safety first approach and reversion to long ball tactics.
His straight talking nature around the players is also Mourinho-esque, this is going to be quite jarring for the players who were constantly protected by Ole. They need a kick up the arse, but are they going to take it from a man who is only in the job for six months max?
Not saying either approach to man management is right or wrong, more just making an observation that this appointment has been another random twist, rather than a logical step in terms of our overall evolution.
Have you been watching Spurs at all ? Yes, they have been winning , thanks to red cards and last minute winners but they are way off from an actual Conte team.
We are getting torn asunder by teams so can we not just try to turtle up instead?
Instead of throwing 4 attackers out there every week, use 3. Pack the midfield. Just try it. Every team we face must be thinking "Who do they think they are?" when they see our line-up every week.
Instead of throwing 4 attackers out there every week, use 3. Pack the midfield. Just try it. Every team we face must be thinking "Who do they think they are?" when they see our line-up every week.
They won cups in those tenures and outside of Hiddink who had a very good league run, their league form wasn't much to write about in a much weaker competition than it is now. They even finished 6th under Di Matteo. If you wish to see the difference, see Ronaldo in the champions league this season vs premier league.
I have been watching. They are pressing, flying to the ball, they look organized. The fact that those starting XI are in a position to win is a minor miracle, let alone that they are winning.
I wonder just how disjointed the players really are now that both Ole and Carrick are gone. This has been a bad season, but even at the end there they both had support in the squad.
Ralf may have come into a group of players who refuse to buy into the system he wants to play because the players know that he is gone at the end of the season regardless.
After Newcastle he had this to say: ""It was not a problem of formation, but of energy and of intensity. This is something we need to get better at."
You generally need a lot of respect in the bank if you're going to go public and slant the effort from the players and take no responsibility yourself. I dont disagree with Ralf here, but he's an interim that needs to get the squad to play in harmony again, he cant be playing "I am right you are shit" then.
Ralf may have come into a group of players who refuse to buy into the system he wants to play because the players know that he is gone at the end of the season regardless.
After Newcastle he had this to say: ""It was not a problem of formation, but of energy and of intensity. This is something we need to get better at."
You generally need a lot of respect in the bank if you're going to go public and slant the effort from the players and take no responsibility yourself. I dont disagree with Ralf here, but he's an interim that needs to get the squad to play in harmony again, he cant be playing "I am right you are shit" then.
Conte would have been the best choice. The glazers made a poor decision. I've got no doubt that Ragnick will influence the hierarchy of the club's structure more than the managerial role. I'm hearing time and time again he's a quality manager but that doesn't seem to be the case. Missing out on top four could potentially hinder the next managerial appointment unless the manager is promised a fortune to play with and is paid a fortune in the process.
If I'm the Glazers I would be accelerating the permanent appointment of the manager right away. There's still a lot to play for this season. Ragnick as the DOF ticks all the necessary boxes.
If I'm the Glazers I would be accelerating the permanent appointment of the manager right away. There's still a lot to play for this season. Ragnick as the DOF ticks all the necessary boxes.
What I find alarming is prior to commencing his tenure his stated focus was on controlling games high up the field away from our goal. He then starts with an almost uniquely old forward line who do not press high up the field and are not physically capable of a continuing a high press, he then plays them till their legs are falling off while substituting the younger more energetic players, he benches the most effective presser in the squad and empties the midfield leaving Matic and McT to try control the game against often 4 or 5 midfielders, our full backs get caught in no mans land, not quite attacking and not quite defending.
it’s all quit weird. I am not sure I have seen an approach like this before. I do hope it’s the players driving these poor performances cause we are stuck with this guy for the next 2 1/2 years in some way shape or form. His reliance on experience ie. Ronny, Cavani, Matic, Jones...and his sound bites on not needing transfers...makes me think he wants the job permenantly and is trying to appease the board by not making waves and eeking out results till the end of three season.
if that’s the case...this won’t end well.
it’s all quit weird. I am not sure I have seen an approach like this before. I do hope it’s the players driving these poor performances cause we are stuck with this guy for the next 2 1/2 years in some way shape or form. His reliance on experience ie. Ronny, Cavani, Matic, Jones...and his sound bites on not needing transfers...makes me think he wants the job permenantly and is trying to appease the board by not making waves and eeking out results till the end of three season.
if that’s the case...this won’t end well.
No, they aren't flying- let's not glorify it. They are organized and the buck stops right there.
There's always another possibility of course: That having spent a month with the squad and evaluated its strengths and weaknesses, this is what he thinks is our best option.
People are always quick to assume that when a course is taken they can't understand, that has to be because the manager is wrong, or due to some murky ulterior motive.
We shouldn't have bloated the squad with so many attackers while neglecting the midfield
You must be watching a different team. I see them hustling. The results with that starting XI is impressive.
Just out of curiosity, if the manager hasn't even had a pre-season with the squad, who do you think he is going to pick first? He'll use the opinions of the assistants right until he can form his own?
It’s absolutely mind boggling how a team with the highest wage bill in the league can look so vulnerable against every team in the league. Norwich and Newcastle could /should have scored 5 each against us FFS and Wolves deserved to score at least 3 in the first half yesterday. Even if we packed the midfield to gain control I wouldn’t mind- I’m fed up at seeing sides walk through us at will!
Club should back him and take a long term view if he's going to be shaping our squad after the role.
Players who needs to be convinced by an interim manager after getting the previous manager sacked should be shipped out if they don't fall in line
Meh, it’s fairly obvious we are not playing the way he expects quite yet. Whether the players lack the capability or have been poorly instructed we are yet to find out but that this point I feel like you can’t really judge him.
If he was coming out saying he was happy with our performances then (like certain smiley managers have done) we should panic but he’s blatantly said that he’s not happy with the way we are playing,
If he was coming out saying he was happy with our performances then (like certain smiley managers have done) we should panic but he’s blatantly said that he’s not happy with the way we are playing,
If he is not even getting the requisite buy-in during what is supposed to be a honeymoon period, the players will only tune him out as time passes and losses accumulate. feck this wretched season.
So essentially just accept that we’ll never be successful consistently again just because it’s too difficult to do something else?
There will always been a max pain point when transitioning to a new system. The sooner we do it the better. We’re in the position we’re in now because Solskjaer didn’t want to take difficult decisions like binning a bunch of players in the summer.
Forget last night's defeat to Wolves, it wasn't even the worst result of the season...
that was actually the 3-0 win at Spurs back in October
...as it meant we missed out on Conte
that was actually the 3-0 win at Spurs back in October
...as it meant we missed out on Conte
I am surprised some of our players can use google.
I back RR and blame the majority on the players. With them either not suited, not interested, or not good enough.
However, we've been in an odd half way house since Norwich. He's using the formation he wants, but without the actual principles required for it to work.
I genuinely think after Palace he abandoned his principles for matches, to train them first, but COVID tore that up. So we're left in this odd space where we're not pressing, we're not progressive on the ball and our forwards (10s) leave space for teams to kill us on the wings.
We all know we're desperate for a RB and at least one CM as well. But right now, we've lost the ability to pressure the ball from the middle and get turnovers with Bruno and Fred on the bench.
However, the biggest problem, is the front four. They don't press, they don't stretch the play, they occupy each others space, they provide poor passing options for our midfield and... They're selfish with each other.
When they had the chance to link up yesterday, they either fluffed their lines, or turned it down. Be that Cavani taking a wild shot when Greenwood was free in the first half, or Greenwood turning down Ronaldo on the break in the second half.
He has to find the right blend upfront, regardless of fee, or name. Or the 4-2-2-2 is dead. The front 4 have to work together or the whole system falls down.
So, he either commits now to instill long term fundamentals, or changes the system in the short term to win games.
I hope; and think, he'll be bold enough to try and implement the long term across the coming weeks in training and (hopefully) in the market. But he needs to be braver. Otherwise we'll stay in inertia.
However, we've been in an odd half way house since Norwich. He's using the formation he wants, but without the actual principles required for it to work.
I genuinely think after Palace he abandoned his principles for matches, to train them first, but COVID tore that up. So we're left in this odd space where we're not pressing, we're not progressive on the ball and our forwards (10s) leave space for teams to kill us on the wings.
We all know we're desperate for a RB and at least one CM as well. But right now, we've lost the ability to pressure the ball from the middle and get turnovers with Bruno and Fred on the bench.
However, the biggest problem, is the front four. They don't press, they don't stretch the play, they occupy each others space, they provide poor passing options for our midfield and... They're selfish with each other.
When they had the chance to link up yesterday, they either fluffed their lines, or turned it down. Be that Cavani taking a wild shot when Greenwood was free in the first half, or Greenwood turning down Ronaldo on the break in the second half.
He has to find the right blend upfront, regardless of fee, or name. Or the 4-2-2-2 is dead. The front 4 have to work together or the whole system falls down.
So, he either commits now to instill long term fundamentals, or changes the system in the short term to win games.
I hope; and think, he'll be bold enough to try and implement the long term across the coming weeks in training and (hopefully) in the market. But he needs to be braver. Otherwise we'll stay in inertia.
Why would he use the opinions of those who got 4 out of 21 league points before he got there? Is he trying to replicate their failures? Well good job, he’s getting there.
where has it all gone wrong in the last two weeks???
is it the system? is it the manager? is it the style of play? is it the personnel?
It just seems like since Ole had that bad streak which led to his sacking, we just seem so disjointed which is really odd as it never felt like that. Yes, there were some playing style concerns but never got the feeling that as a group they were disjointed.
is it the system? is it the manager? is it the style of play? is it the personnel?
It just seems like since Ole had that bad streak which led to his sacking, we just seem so disjointed which is really odd as it never felt like that. Yes, there were some playing style concerns but never got the feeling that as a group they were disjointed.
Very short sighted
Probably, I am watching a different Spurs team.
Rangnick comes here in middle of the season as an interim after a guy who supposedly should be interim and has one January window plus few more months to develop his vision.
Impossible mission even for Klopp or Pep. He's here to identify a problem and move to higher role in the club, probably in order to create something finally resembling a football culture in and around the club.
Looks like as manager he has only time to clear out dressing room from cynical laziness flooding the squad, but we can't be even sure of that at the moment. Complicated is not enough word to desribe current labirynth of shit.
Building something new could take another years. Summer appointment is key, without it we may just bin another 3-5 years.
Impossible mission even for Klopp or Pep. He's here to identify a problem and move to higher role in the club, probably in order to create something finally resembling a football culture in and around the club.
Looks like as manager he has only time to clear out dressing room from cynical laziness flooding the squad, but we can't be even sure of that at the moment. Complicated is not enough word to desribe current labirynth of shit.
This. Players already surrendered it and so far they're unwilling to learn anything new.
Building something new could take another years. Summer appointment is key, without it we may just bin another 3-5 years.
It's embarrassing to have reports like this. Seriously from Ogden ? The man hasn't been in the Job for a month .God, if we appoint ETH these leeches won't even give him a month .
- Status