Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[VidaRed]

Wrong thread. We get it, any big country nowadays will have blood on their hands to have got to where they are but this is Ukraine invasion specific.

India's neigbhours are china and pakistan, both have nukes and both have territorial claims over Indian territory and both have previously fought wars over it against India.

Russia has helped India previously while at times the west has acted against us. Russia continues to supply us with military hardware without which we'd be nowhere in the short term if china and pakistan decide to take advantage.

As i see it the west too has to share the blame for this useless and needless war. What was the need for nato to stoke the flames and try to get ukraine into the fold when everyone knows it would antagonize the russians ? Of course every soverign country should have a right to do whatever it wants but we dont live in an ideal world. If china placed nukes in sri lanka India would be antagonized and if India placed nukes in taiwan/vietnam then china would be mobilizing its military and so would the west if putin decided to place nukes in mexico/cuba etc.

This was a needless war stoked by old men in suits trying to feck with each other. No side is blameless here.

 

[noodlehair]

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Find it rather hard to believe that it would be "unexpected" to encounter resistance at the capital city of a country you've declared war on and invaded

 

[Beans]

"At least two of China’s largest state-owned banks are restricting financing for purchases of Russian commodities, underscoring the limits of Beijing’s pledge to maintain economic ties with one of its most important strategic partners in the face of sanctions by the U.S. and its allies.

Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd.’s offshore units stopped issuing U.S. dollar-denominated letters of credit for purchases of physical Russian commodities ready for export, two people familiar with the matter said. Yuan-denominated letters of credit are still available for some clients, subject to approvals from senior executives, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing private information."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ks-restrict-financing-for-russian-commodities

 

[Deery]

Big night for Ukraine, I can just pray for them and hope for not so many casualties..

 

[Sarni]

It's all gone a bit beyond that, hasn't it?

Yep but there’s still degrees of how fecked Russia can be. If they back down eventually and keep it a normal war, then I still bet things will get better in a few years time. If they just raid Kyiv like that it will be remembered forever and they will be marginalized for a very long time. But I might be wrong.

 

[Lightbringer]

Is it guaranteed that the NATO countries would interfere if Putin were to attack a NATO country threatening with nuclear weapons if anyone attacks russia?

 

[VidaRed]

Follow the right accounts and you only get the stuff that is either verified, geolocated or posted by somebody who has a reputation for posting authentic footage.

There's no guarantees with verified accounts either.

We can only get to know the general trends from social media, we'll only know the actual specifics after its over.

 

[Raoul]

Is it guaranteed that the NATO countries would interfere if Putin were to attack a NATO country threatening with nuclear weapons if anyone attacks russia?

Any NATO country attacked would trigger article 5.

 

[Mickeza]

Kinzinger advocating for a NATO NFZ over Ukraine on CNN now.

Yes please.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

India's neigbhours are china and pakistan, both have nukes and both have territorial claims over Indian territory and both have previously fought wars over it against India.

Russia has helped India previously while at times the west has acted against us. Russia continues to supply us with military hardware without which we'd be nowhere in the short term if china and pakistan decide to take advantage.

As i see it the west too has to share the blame for this useless and needless war. What was the need for nato to stoke the flames and try to get ukraine into the fold when everyone knows it would antagonize the russians ? Of course every soverign country should have a right to do whatever it wants but we dont live in an ideal world. If china placed nukes in sri lanka India would be antagonized and if India placed nukes in taiwan/vietnam then china would be mobilizing its military and so would the west if putin decided to place nukes in mexico/cuba etc.

This was a needless war stoked by old men in suits trying to feck with each other. No side is blameless here.

You see it incorrectly, Vida. Don't take any criticism of India to heart re its abstention at the UN. They voted pragmatically and abstaining is not the same as voting against a resolution.

NATO is a defensive alliance and no threat to Russia unless Russia attacks a NATO member country. Ask yourself why former Warsaw Pact countries have been clamouring to be a part of NATO since the collapse of the Soviet Union and maybe your perspective will change.

 

[Simbo]

That would come back at a huge cost for Russia for many years to come, wouldn’t it?

Until the death of Putin / Revolution at least.

The very existance of these weapons is practically a war crime.

Apart from a few incidents I do find solace in that they do appear to be trying to avoid civilian casualties, of the extent we are mostly fearing at least.

 

[Deery]

Is it guaranteed that the NATO countries would interfere if Putin were to attack a NATO country threatening with nuclear weapons if anyone attacks russia?

Biden saying the” US will defend every inch of NATO controlled territory”

 

[Mihai]

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[Beans]

India's neigbhours are china and pakistan, both have nukes and both have territorial claims over Indian territory and both have previously fought wars over it against India.

Russia has helped India previously while at times the west has acted against us. Russia continues to supply us with military hardware without which we'd be nowhere in the short term if china and pakistan decide to take advantage.

As i see it the west too has to share the blame for this useless and needless war. What was the need for nato to stoke the flames and try to get ukraine into the fold when everyone knows it would antagonize the russians ? Of course every soverign country should have a right to do whatever it wants but we dont live in an ideal world. If china placed nukes in sri lanka India would be antagonized and if India placed nukes in taiwan/vietnam then china would be mobilizing its military and so would the west if putin decided to place nukes in mexico/cuba etc.

This was a needless war stoked by old men in suits trying to feck with each other. No side is blameless here.

But the West don't have any nukes in Ukraine, no? If the missiles in Turkey are the problem why isn't Putin invading Turkey? Otherwise the closest ones to Russia in Germany and Italy.

Though I imagine the actual closest ones are in submarines and airplanes.

 

[mariachi-19]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re about to see the Americans launch fighters in the area to intervene and maintain a neutral air superiority. They won’t attack Russian forces but it’ll certainly hurt Russia’s ability to take control of the air space.

 

[VorZakone]

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[Boycott]

There's no guarantees with verified accounts either.

We can only get to know the general trends from social media, we'll only know the actual specifics after its over.

I don't use tiktok but read there is a viral vid with over 10 million views claiming to be from yesterday in Ukraine but in fact was a conflict zone from 2016.

 

[The Firestarter]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re about to see the Americans launch fighters in the area to intervene and maintain a neutral air superiority. They won’t attack Russian forces but it’ll certainly hurt Russia’s ability to take control of the air space.

What I think we may see is some REW (jamming) deployed by NATO.

 

[noodlehair]

But the West don't have any nukes in Ukraine, no? If the missiles in Turkey are the problem why isn't Putin invading Turkey? Otherwise the closest ones to Russia in Germany and Italy.

Though I imagine the actual closest ones are in submarines and airplanes.

The last sentence possibly hitting the point as Ukraine has airfields and presumably water based territory, and id the closest you'll get to Moscow without being on Russian or Russian friendly territory (Belarus)

 

[VorZakone]

Great words from Ukraine:

Ukrainian ambassador characterizes the Russian ambassador’s speech as an application for an upscale seat in hell.

 

[VidaRed]

You see it incorrectly, Vida. Don't take any criticism of India to heart re its abstention at the UN. They voted pragmatically and abstaining is not the same as voting against a resolution.

NATO is a defensive alliance and no threat to Russia unless Russia attacks a NATO member country. Ask yourself why former Warsaw Pact countries have been clamouring to be a part of NATO since the collapse of the Soviet Union and maybe your perspective will change.

I get that the smaller countries might want to join but that doesn't change the fact that the leading western countries don't know whats going to go down if they induct them.

Why doesn't nato, russia and these smaller countries in between both of them sign agreements that they won't join nato if russia guarantees it won't invade them ? Russia wants a buffer between them and nato so i dont think they'll mind this arrangement. Imo there should be a buffer between countries having huge militaries and nukes. You (nato) shouldn't want a land border with russia because any small border misunderstanding could kick off a war where nukes are lobbed, trust me when i say this because we (India) are surrounded on two sides with hostile countries with nukes and every year we have skirmishes and exchange of artillery. You dont want that shit on an annual basis.

 

[T00lsh3d]

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No pornography and now no iPhones….when will the barbarity end

 

[Balljy]

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That's pretty big economically. I'd like to know the others are but TSMC are the biggest chip maker by far.

 

[nimic]

This was a needless war stoked by old men in suits trying to feck with each other. No side is blameless here.

That's an incredibly tone-deaf way of describing what's going on here.

We all know the US is far from perfect, but this is Russian imperialism.

 

[tomaldinho1]

India's neigbhours are china and pakistan, both have nukes and both have territorial claims over Indian territory and both have previously fought wars over it against India.

Russia has helped India previously while at times the west has acted against us. Russia continues to supply us with military hardware without which we'd be nowhere in the short term if china and pakistan decide to take advantage.

As i see it the west too has to share the blame for this useless and needless war. What was the need for nato to stoke the flames and try to get ukraine into the fold when everyone knows it would antagonize the russians ? Of course every soverign country should have a right to do whatever it wants but we dont live in an ideal world. If china placed nukes in sri lanka India would be antagonized and if India placed nukes in taiwan/vietnam then china would be mobilizing its military and so would the west if putin decided to place nukes in mexico/cuba etc.

This was a needless war stoked by old men in suits trying to feck with each other. No side is blameless here.

The invasion itself is on Putin and Putin alone.
Not disputing the complexity of geopolitics and basic need for trade but this isn’t the thread to dive into India’s foreign policy.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I get that the smaller countries might want to join but that doesn't change the fact that the leading western countries don't know whats going to go down.

Why doesn't nato, russia and these smaller countries in between both of them sign agreements that they won't join nato if russia guarantees it won't invade them ? Russia wants a buffer between them and nato so i dont think they'll mind this arrangement. Imo there should be a buffer between countries having huge militaries and nukes. You (nato) shouldn't want a land border with russia because any small border misunderstanding could kick off a war where nukes are lobbed, trust me when i say this because we (India) are surrounded on two sides with hostile countries with nukes and every year we have skirmishes and exchange of artillery. You dont want that shit on an annual basis.

Russia is not able to offer a guarantee that it won't invade its non-NATO neighbours.

NATO offers collective security from invasion, that's why these countries want in.

 

[Revan]

Fantastic speech by the Ukrainian ambassador.

 

[VorZakone]

I don't know the guy's policies but can't deny what he's done so far during the war.

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[sport2793]

Countries true colours are certainly coming out during this.

I'm sorry but I take offense to this. Sadly, the US and UK had a habit of royally screwing India during the Cold War (and before that too, obviously). Let's not forget Nixon and the Blood Telegram which led to an Indo-Pak war where US threatened intervention against India and the Soviet Union of all people stepped in to provide deterrence.

Do Indians in India agree with Russia's actions? Of course not but the economic and defense ties are too intertwined at the moment to risk Russian retaliation nor economic setback that could affect the ability to support the millions of impoverished people.

In time this will probably change as the US proves itself willing to be a more reliable partner to India to counter China.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Why did India abstain?

India and Russia have a history during previous wars which to an extent can be described as Russia literally saving India's ass from the rest of the world including China, US, Europe etc.

During India's war with Pakistan (a very strong ally of US/West/China in the 20th century), Russia had warned the rest of the world to not interfere between the bilateral war or they would see an attack on India from any outsider as an attack on Russia itself. More or less made it certain that we would always be in pole position to win that war.

Not to say it justifies the blind eye to this barbaric attack, but there is some reason to it.

 

[VidaRed]

Russia is not able to offer a guarantee that it won't invade its non-NATO neighbours.

NATO offers collective security from invasion, that's why these countries want in.

If there is no give and take then one side has to be utterly defeated.

Good luck and try not to drag the world into a nuclear pissing contest.

 

[Tarrou]

China seemingly turning against them is really significant

I don't think Putin would have expected that, and China are the country that buy the most oil off them too

If SWIFT is happening they're really gonna be in the shit as well

It just makes me more worried though, if Putin gets backed into a corner will he just give up? Who knows at this point

 

[T00lsh3d]

I'm sorry but I take offense to this. Sadly, the US and UK had a habit of royally screwing India during the Cold War (and before that too, obviously). Let's not forget Nixon and the Blood Telegram which led to an Indo-Pak war where US threatened intervention against India and the Soviet Union of all people stepped in to provide deterrence.

Do Indians in India agree with Russia's actions? Of course not but the economic and defense ties are too intertwined at the moment to risk Russian retaliation nor economic setback that could affect the ability to support the millions of impoverished people.

In time this will probably change as the US proves itself willing to be a more reliable partner to India to counter China.

So what you’re saying is….they are showing their true colours

 

[Paxi]

Any NATO country attacked would trigger article 5.

And any Russian plane downed in a no fly zone would trigger a thermonuclear war.

 

[Raoul]

China seemingly turning against them is really significant

I don't think Putin would have expected that, and China are the country that buy the most oil off them too

If SWIFT is happening they're really gonna be in the shit as well

It just makes me more worried though, if Putin gets backed into a corner will he just give up? Who knows at this point

I think this week will be looked at decades from now as the beginning of the end for Putin.

 

[Raoul]

And any Russian plane downed in a no fly zone would trigger a thermonuclear war.

I don't think nukes will ever come into play.

 

[Deery]

I think this week will be looked at decades from now as the beginning of the end for Putin.

Wouldn’t be surprised if at the end of this he’s taken out or tops himself.

 

[sport2793]

So what you’re saying is….they are showing their true colours

Please, you don't live in a country of a billion+ people with a huge percentage in poverty. Russian retaliation against India could lead to a scale of human suffering of unimaginable scale (greater than what we are seeing in Ukraine) due to India's reliance on Russia for agricultural fertilizer in addition to other materials.

 

[ChaddyP]

You see it incorrectly, Vida. Don't take any criticism of India to heart re its abstention at the UN. They voted pragmatically and abstaining is not the same as voting against a resolution.

NATO is a defensive alliance and no threat to Russia unless Russia attacks a NATO member country. Ask yourself why former Warsaw Pact countries have been clamouring to be a part of NATO since the collapse of the Soviet Union and maybe your perspective will change.

It always boggles my brain that Russians feel intimidated by NATO as if it's some aggressive force of nature looking for any reason to bomb Moscow...while at the same breath everyone knows that NATO will do feck all if russia stirred up shit with a non NATO country. It's why Putin had the gall to even invade Ukraine in the first place as he knows this organisation will not use it's weapon's against it.

You can't cry that NATO is this big scary thing with nukes then at the same time know you can do whatever you want with a non NATO country and won't get aggression against you . Both things can't be true

 

[WeePat]

I wonder how the freezing conditions will impact things for either side. It's hardly optimal to move around or be posted somewhere in near sub zero temperature.