calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
So much to potentially like there.
So much to potentially like there.
I'm not sure that's the right reading of the roomChina seemingly turning against them is really significant
To be fair anyone who thinks that's a tank needs a slap.Tweet
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We've managed to not support or condemn Russia in Ukraine, US in Iraq, and the USSR in AfghanistanSo what you’re saying is….they are showing their true colours
How so, though?That would probably be beneficial to them compared to Ukraine joining NATO.
Although more realistically you'd think they were either hoping for a quick surrender and being able to negotiate terms to keep NATO and the west out. Or to gain some territory on their own border.
Even just distabalising Ukraine would have benefits.
It's still a weird one as they've gone so all in with it they'll end up looking weak even with those outcomes...and risk making the region more hostile than the hassle it would be worth. That's before getting to the international consequences with non allies using it as fuel and allies having no real reason to do much more than distance themselves.
Indeed. Credit where it's due.
https://samf.substack.com/p/a-reckl...campaign=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=urlThe point about wars (and I have studied many) is that they rarely go according to plan.
Chance events or poorly executed operations can require sudden shifts in strategy.
The unintended consequences can be as important as the intended. These are the pitfalls surrounding all wars and why they should only be embarked upon with good reason (of which the most compelling is an act of self-defence
He is hoping to widen the cracks in NATO so whenever he wants something he can get it by moving troops to the border and asking how certain are you NATO is there for you and wouldn't you rather just give me your lunch money.This is really what I’m struggling to wrap my head around. What can Russia possibly gain from this? A never ending insurgence and guerilla warfare for decades?
These countries couldn't give a flying feck about India, south Asian, or any non European country at that. The British empires negative effects upon the South Asian continent are still seen to this day. They're faced with ferocious racism and mocked so often. Yet it's india who is showing its true coloursWe've managed to not support or condemn Russia in Ukraine, US in Iraq, and the USSR in Afghanistan
But *true colours* - every country has the same "true colours" - self-interest and cowardice. Which country had the guts to do sanctions on the US in 2003? The concept itself is so absurd.
I should have said governments and not countries. I didn’t mean to cause offence.I'm sorry but I take offense to this. Sadly, the US and UK had a habit of royally screwing India during the Cold War (and before that too, obviously). Let's not forget Nixon and the Blood Telegram which led to an Indo-Pak war where US threatened intervention against India and the Soviet Union of all people stepped in to provide deterrence.
Do Indians in India agree with Russia's actions? Of course not but the economic and defense ties are too intertwined at the moment to risk Russian retaliation nor economic setback that could affect the ability to support the millions of impoverished people.
In time this will probably change as the US proves itself willing to be a more reliable partner to India to counter China.
Ukraine joining NATO would have just as much impact on Russia as Baltic countries joining in early 2000s I.e. none whatsoever. It was never about Ukraine joining NATO.That would probably be beneficial to them compared to Ukraine joining NATO.
Although more realistically you'd think they were either hoping for a quick surrender and being able to negotiate terms to keep NATO and the west out. Or to gain some territory on their own border.
Even just distabalising Ukraine would have benefits.
It's still a weird one as they've gone so all in with it they'll end up looking weak even with those outcomes...and risk making the region more hostile than the hassle it would be worth. That's before getting to the international consequences with non allies using it as fuel and allies having no real reason to do much more than distance themselves.
That might well be his plan, but I just don't see that it's ever going to work. The entire reason Ukraine is being invaded is because they're not yet in NATO. I guess they could try it on Finland, but odds are they will join NATO long before that. I also don't think Russia has any desire to invade Finland. Finland is also in the EU, so that's another potential issue.He is hoping to widen the cracks in NATO so whenever he wants something he can get it by moving troops to the border and asking how certain are you NATO is there for you and wouldn't you rather just give me your lunch money.
I think that’s why I had to comment. The original post was greeted with a load of whataboutism and rhetoric, whereas really….it’s all any of these countries ever do (further their own agendas)We've managed to not support or condemn Russia in Ukraine, US in Iraq, and the USSR in Afghanistan
But *true colours* - every country has the same "true colours" - self-interest and cowardice. Which country had the guts to do sanctions on the US in 2003? The concept itself is so absurd.
Clearly doing something right then
… by attacking a non-NATO country?He is hoping to widen the cracks in NATO so whenever he wants something he can get it by moving troops to the border and asking how certain are you NATO is there for you and wouldn't you rather just give me your lunch money.
These countries couldn't give a flying feck about India, south Asian, or any non European country at that. The British empires negative effects upon the South Asian continent are still seen to this day. They're faced with ferocious racism and mocked so often. Yet it's india who is showing its true colours
This is my point as well. It’s a false narrative.Ukraine joining NATO would have just as much impact on Russia as Baltic countries joining in early 2000s I.e. none whatsoever. It was never about Ukraine joining NATO.
Why feck NATO?In the end, ukranian soldiers, civilians and russian soldiers will die for absolutely nothing, feck putin, feck nato
That's awesome.On a positive note we’ve managed to collect 50 tones of goods in aid to Lviv people in Kraków today. Will continue tomorrow with more coming. Planning to pack as much stuff as my car can fit.
If that was the case there wouldn't currently be a war going on.Ukraine joining NATO would have just as much impact on Russia as Baltic countries joining in early 2000s I.e. none whatsoever. It was never about Ukraine joining NATO.
Ace !On a positive note we’ve managed to collect 50 tones of goods in aid to Lviv people in Kraków today. Will continue tomorrow with more coming. Planning to pack as much stuff as my car can fit.
50 tons? Wow. That’s great! Kudos.On a positive note we’ve managed to collect 50 tones of goods in aid to Lviv people in Kraków today. Will continue tomorrow with more coming. Planning to pack as much stuff as my car can fit.
Wow that's really good stuff, keep up the good work!On a positive note we’ve managed to collect 50 tones of goods in aid to Lviv people in Kraków today. Will continue tomorrow with more coming. Planning to pack as much stuff as my car can fit.
Aside from the "having finally tipped over the edge of lunacy" argument - Russia has been chipping away at the foundations of Western democracies and their institutions for years now, and I imagine that with the shifts in various governments and the EU in recent years, Putin thought this was the optimal moment to show his hand and expose what he hoped/hopes is a lack of unity and strength amongst his oldest and most bitter foes - Western Democracies. With the economic challenges each are facing, and the individualistic nature of each's critical infrastructure reliance, he probably thought a better opportunity to upset the traditional apple cart was unlikely to come around again soon.This is really what I’m struggling to wrap my head around. What can Russia possibly gain from this? A never ending insurgence and guerilla warfare for decades?
How is he going to feel less threatened now, than if Ukraine joined NATO? This is going to have serious consequences for the Russian economy, and it's not like it's done anything to lower tension with NATO, or other non-NATO countries. It's quite likely that this is going to lead directly to Finland and Sweden joining NATO. And it's not like Ukrainians will have warmed up to Russia either.If that was the case there wouldn't currently be a war going on.
Putin isn't going to commit half his armed forces to a war that will obviously provoke a worldwide backlash if he doesn't feel threatened.
There's not much hope of occupying or claiming Ukraine either long term but he can occupy some if it or use it as a bargaining chip. I think something has obviously happened recently which has made him feel he needed to act drastically.
The alternative explanation is that he's suddenly gone completely mad but that doesn't really make sense considering the efforts to try and avoid imagery of Russian aggression.
The world doesn’t revolve around Europe.So what you’re saying is….they are showing their true colours
NATO should have been dissolved when the soviet union collapsedWhy feck NATO?
I think option two there is the most likely reason. Win some extra territory (including Crimea). Save face.The eastern parts are happy to become Russian (or a separate east Ukraine), and he’ll officially keep his valuable Black Sea port in Sevastopol under Russian control.If that was the case there wouldn't currently be a war going on.
Putin isn't going to commit half his armed forces to a war that will obviously provoke a worldwide backlash if he doesn't feel threatened.
There's not much hope of occupying or claiming Ukraine either long term but he can occupy some if it or use it as a bargaining chip. I think something has obviously happened recently which has made him feel he needed to act drastically.
The alternative explanation is that he's suddenly gone completely mad but that doesn't really make sense considering the efforts from his side to try and avoid imagery of Russian aggression.
Interesting bit:Tweet
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Notably, when looked at from a national perspective, the Ukrainian population appeared to possess only a moderate level of resolve.
However, when broken down by region – north, south, east and west – it becomes clear that attitudes in the south and east of the country exhibit much less faith in the Ukrainian state.
Pretty sure every country with a border close to Russia would disagree with you. And then some.NATO should have been dissolved when the soviet union collapsed
Agreed, if this was the case then the likes of Estonia and Latvia would be under Putin rule.Pretty sure every country with a border close to Russia would disagree with you. And then some.
Not if we had a real EU defense army capable of protecting Europe (Including Greece against Erdogan) independently of how Pennsylvania voted in the last American election.Pretty sure every country with a border close to Russia would disagree with you. And then some.