Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

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Russians are aiming for Harkiv now or its a tactic of spreading the atrack so UFA defense is streched?
 

The Firestarter

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FFS last year we passed a law that banned residential buildings that looked like Soviet Era "Communist" Architecture residential flats.
Bit curious about your background here, I had the impression you were from the US, who do you refer to "we" here?
 

Raoul

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Can't speak to other nations but the UK Government does not comment or acknowledge anything in regard to UK special forces
That's usually the policy of most nations when their troops are doing covert things. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually learn that several western countries are doing covert training and logistical work inside Ukraine.
 

Red in STL

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That's usually the policy of most nations when their troops are doing covert things. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually learn that several western countries are doing covert training and logistical work inside Ukraine.
So big-mouth American's can't keep schtum is the story :D

TBH, given the mentality of the SAS and British squaddies in general, they'd probably do covert training and logistical work as a 'live' exercise!
 

Raoul

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So big-mouth American's can't keep schtum is the story :D

TBH, given the mentality of the SAS and British squaddies in general, they'd probably do covert training and logistical work as a 'live' exercise!
They're usually good about it, although there's occasionally one rando that says something in a low level meeting that gets picked up by the media. Just yesterday, 60 minutes did a report on using ex US special operators to extract a Palestinian - American woman from Gaza, which was miraculously kept quiet for most of the past 4 months.
 

Red in STL

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They're usually good about it, although there's occasionally one rando that says something in a low level meeting that gets picked up by the media. Just yesterday, 60 minutes did a report on using ex US special operators to extract a Palestinian - American woman from Gaza, which was miraculously kept quiet for most of the past 4 months.
Well if Trump wins his immunity case I hope they don't keep quiet about Seal team 6, if you know what I mean :D

re: media, they can keep quiet when they want to but then there'll always be one who breaks ranks, I always remember Prince Harry on active duty in Afghanistan, the press knew and said nothing for months until some Australian hack decided to use the story
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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That's usually the policy of most nations when their troops are doing covert things. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually learn that several western countries are doing covert training and logistical work inside Ukraine.
Or even assisting the Ukrainians in interrogating Russian prisoners to extract as much intel as possible.
 

tomaldinho1

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That's usually the policy of most nations when their troops are doing covert things. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually learn that several western countries are doing covert training and logistical work inside Ukraine.
I thought it was public knowledge special forces were there in non combat roles already i.e. training, espionage etc. We saw the leak last year on this as well.
 

VorZakone

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Ukraine's reaction to the narratives around the 2022 peace talks.

 

DT12

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What is it about him that leads you to believe he will eventually replace Putin ?
Around 10 years ago I'd asked a few people with first-hand knowledge of the Russian power structure (one of whom was then and still is now a deputy in the State Duma) who was in contention for following Putin and the same name, Dyumin's, kept coming up as someone to keep an eye on. This was even before the Crimean annexation, arguably the peak of his highlight reel.

Since then I've been following his trajectory and in my opinion his career arc has all the hallmarks of how Russian leaders are going to be selected for the foreseeable future. He began as Putin’s chief security guard (i.e Putin trusts him with his life, something that will matter when he steps down if he doesn't want to be Berezovskied). Then he was moved over to military intelligence, where he became deputy head of the GRU. In 2014 he basically orchestrated the annexation of Crimea. After that he was promoted to deputy Defence Minister. Then in 2016 he was rewarded for all his military achievements by being given a job nobody in his position would ever want. He was made governor of a relatively small and unglamorous region 200 miles away from Moscow. The explanation I was given, take it or leave it, was to judge how he manages and builds a 'society'. It's all very well having a military intelligence background but it's not enough to be president. For nearly 8 years they’ve been watching him closely in that role and it seems he's passed that final test, hence his promotion today to "Aide to the President of Russia". I've also been paying close attention to the various tools of political technology here, primarily in this case the state news channels, and over the last few years there have been more and more stories highlighting various initiatives in the Tula Oblast (where Dyumin is governor). There is no real reason for those non-stories to be on the 9pm news on First Channel, other than to make the kind of people who watch state media (my wife's parents for example) familiar with his face, name and voice.

Harms suggested a while ago when I first proposed his name that barely anyone in Russia knew him, but in my opinion that doesn't matter (it's also about to become less accurate; I guarantee this guy will now be a frequent figure in the media here standing next to Putin). How many people knew who the hell Putin was before he was installed, and besides which, my perception is that Putin's support is so strong right now (even among my friends and acquaintances, people who were fiercely opposed to him and the invasion 2 years ago now 'support' him to various degrees) that whoever Putin installs as his successor will be good enough for them. His judgement will be trusted. Whatever appetite existed here for a more democratic society has - I'm speaking again only from my own perception - been largely scared out of people. Endless gleeful Western vows back in 2022 by people like Bruno Le Maire, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Joe Biden, Anthony Blinken, Annalena Baerbock and Ursula von der Leyen to immiserate the Russian people as punishment for the invasion had that effect, who'd a thunk it? If Putin announces a few years from now that he's stepping aside and putting his protege in charge I don't think many people will have a problem with it, especially because despite the war-time support, a lot of people are still tired of him and would like a new face in the Kremlin.
 

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Around 10 years ago I'd asked a few people with first-hand knowledge of the Russian power structure (one of whom was then and still is now a deputy in the State Duma) who was in contention for following Putin and the same name, Dyumin's, kept coming up as someone to keep an eye on. This was even before the Crimean annexation, arguably the peak of his highlight reel.

Since then I've been following his trajectory and in my opinion his career arc has all the hallmarks of how Russian leaders are going to be selected for the foreseeable future. He began as Putin’s chief security guard (i.e Putin trusts him with his life, something that will matter when he steps down if he doesn't want to be Berezovskied). Then he was moved over to military intelligence, where he became deputy head of the GRU. In 2014 he basically orchestrated the annexation of Crimea. After that he was promoted to deputy Defence Minister. Then in 2016 he was rewarded for all his military achievements by being given a job nobody in his position would ever want. He was made governor of a relatively small and unglamorous region 200 miles away from Moscow. The explanation I was given, take it or leave it, was to judge how he manages and builds a 'society'. It's all very well having a military intelligence background but it's not enough to be president. For nearly 8 years they’ve been watching him closely in that role and it seems he's passed that final test, hence his promotion today to "Aide to the President of Russia". I've also been paying close attention to the various tools of political technology here, primarily in this case the state news channels, and over the last few years there have been more and more stories highlighting various initiatives in the Tula Oblast (where Dyumin is governor). There is no real reason for those non-stories to be on the 9pm news on First Channel, other than to make the kind of people who watch state media (my wife's parents for example) familiar with his face, name and voice.

Harms suggested a while ago when I first proposed his name that barely anyone in Russia knew him, but in my opinion that doesn't matter (it's also about to become less accurate; I guarantee this guy will now be a frequent figure in the media here standing next to Putin). How many people knew who the hell Putin was before he was installed, and besides which, my perception is that Putin's support is so strong right now (even among my friends and acquaintances, people who were fiercely opposed to him and the invasion 2 years ago now 'support' him to various degrees) that whoever Putin installs as his successor will be good enough for them. His judgement will be trusted. Whatever appetite existed here for a more democratic society has - I'm speaking again only from my own perception - been largely scared out of people. Endless gleeful Western vows back in 2022 by people like Bruno Le Maire, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Joe Biden, Anthony Blinken, Annalena Baerbock and Ursula von der Leyen to immiserate the Russian people as punishment for the invasion had that effect, who'd a thunk it? If Putin announces a few years from now that he's stepping aside and putting his protege in charge I don't think many people will have a problem with it, especially because despite the war-time support, a lot of people are still tired of him and would like a new face in the Kremlin.
Interesting thanks. I suppose who leads Russia after Putin will depend a lot on how Putin leaves power. If he's somehow forced out, then he likely won't have the ability emplace whoever he wants.

It will also be interesting what happens to the likes of Kadyrov after Putin leaves.
 

berbatrick

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September 28, 2023

Secretary of State Tony Blinken kicked off a new state department global music diplomacy initiative by showing off his own skills as a singer-guitarist.

After delivering remarks at a State Department event, Blinken said that it would not be complete “without a little bit of blues,” before playing and singing the Muddy Waters classic “Hoochie Coochie Man.”
 

Raoul

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September 28, 2023

Secretary of State Tony Blinken kicked off a new state department global music diplomacy initiative by showing off his own skills as a singer-guitarist.

After delivering remarks at a State Department event, Blinken said that it would not be complete “without a little bit of blues,” before playing and singing the Muddy Waters classic “Hoochie Coochie Man.”
Thanks
 

berbatrick

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Turns out the Blinken guitar thing just happened after all.
Ya, didn't mean to say this was the same event. Just that he had done it previously, and Oct 7 was a week after that... (He or somebody else important from US-Iarael was also giving interviews in early Oct/late Sept about how calm the Middle East was)
 

DT12

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Informed Ukrainian voices on mainstream Western media are rare even now but Peter Zalmayev has a very good track record throughout this war of putting his emotions aside and offering a clear-sighted assessment of how events are going to pan out. France 24 interviewed him last night and it's worth watching. It starts from about 2:50 in this video.


A couple more things I want to post which illustrate my overall point, in fact my bedrock conviction, that the West's criminal lack of a coherent strategy almost 2 and a half years into the war is killing Ukraine.

Firstly this Politico article. A delegation of Ukrainian officials is in Washington right now pleading with the Biden White House to lift the ban on using American weapons to strike Russian military targets within Russia. Had they been able to do this, they say, this latest "incursion" (BBC's word - they don't want to call it what it is, a 2nd invasion. How times change) into Kharkiv would have been stopped before it began.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/14/ukraine-weapons-russia-00157970

Successful trip for the Ukrainians? You decide:

Two U.S. officials, when asked for comment, confirmed that the Biden administration’s policy has not changed. “The assistance is for the defense and not for offensive operations in Russian territory,” said one of the officials, who was granted anonymity to discuss sensitive issues.

This war, these clowns tell Ukraine, is existential for the entire Western global order; freedom and democracy themselves will fall if Ukraine is defeated, Putin's army will march across Europe and butcher every animal, vegetable and mineral they find along the way...but for heaven's sake don't strike Russian military targets that are preparing to invade you because that would be an "escalation". Heck it's not even an invasion, it's just a minor "incursion", stop being so dramatic about it, Ukraine. Oh yeah, and as "once in a generation intellect" Jake Sullivan reiterated over the weekend - stop attacking Russian oil refineries. Yes it's hurting Russia's economy and their ability to finance the war, but it could also raise American gas prices in an election year. An existential fight for survival is important I guess, but come on now...US gas prices in a Biden election year! Priorities, people.

Next, here's the BBC saying much the same thing (with barely concealed contempt for Blinken's tiresome horseshit from the reporter).


Russian forces are amassing near Sumy for yet another "incursion", Ukraine can see exactly where they are, they have the US weapons to strike them on their bases and stop the incursion...but no, that would be an "escalation". As the guy says in the video: "It has long been known that Russia is gathering troops, but Kiev is reluctantly agreeing to not use the missiles it provides on targets inside Russia". The result of this "fear of escalation" will be a lot more dead Ukrainians and an even more unwinnable position for Ukraine.

Never before has a country been told they're fighting an "existential war" on their behalf (!!) by the very same country that is tying their hands behind their back in fighting it. And so I'll say it again: either give them the means and permission to actually win this war, or else stop stringing them along in the hope that something will magically change. And yeah, as the first guy said, Blinken playing the guitar in Kiev immediately after visiting the square where tens of thousands of Ukrainian flags commemorate dead Ukrainians - absolute f*cking clown. It did not go down well in Ukraine.

On which note I'll end with Boris Johnson saying the quiet part out loud regarding the West's interest in this war:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtMJ85fvvKU

"If Ukraine falls it will be the end of Western hegemony". That's an awesome narrative to use in trying to get the likes of the Global South and Africa on your side.
 
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DT12

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Wonder if this is an attempt to show strength ahead of Putin's visit to see Xi.
Yermak and Budanov said months ago that May and June would be very difficult periods for Ukraine because of the delay in American aid. This new invasion incursion has nothing to do with Putin's visit to China, it's part of a *gasp* clear and long-term strategy (fancy that, Sullivan and Blinken) to stretch Ukrainian forces to breaking point. Ukraine simply has no troops left, as even Budanov has admitted:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/russia-ukraine-kharkiv.html

“All of our forces are either here or in Chasiv Yar,” he said. "I’ve used everything we have. Unfortunately, we don’t have anyone else in the reserves.”
 

maniak

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It's going to be depressingly fun seeing how the "the russians fecked up by invading ukraine" narrative in the west will be spinned once russia wins this.
 

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It's going to be depressingly fun seeing how the "the russians fecked up by invading ukraine" narrative in the west will be spinned once russia wins this.
How will Russia win you reckon?
By occupying whole of Ukraine?
 

maniak

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How will Russia win you reckon?
By occupying whole of Ukraine?
The narrative we were sold for months and months was that russia was going to be kicked out of ukraine, maybe even crimea. Their economy would go to shit. The west was going to be behind ukraine for as long as it takes and will send all the military help they need.

It seems they're going to keep vast areas of land, resources and industry and their economy is doing at least as well as it was before. The west is providing the bare minimum and everyone around the world is looking at those promises as empty words.

I don't see how this is anything other than a win for russia.
 

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As for not using weapons inside Russia, werent targets inside Russia hit a number of times already?