A poor team, poorly run with no direction. Even pundits are struggling to stay fascinated by a club’s perpetual non-success

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

A poor team, poorly run with no direction. Even pundits are struggling to stay fascinated by a club’s perpetual non-success

Gary’s rant. Micah’s laugh. Scholesy’s pucker of disdain. This is where the eyeballs are now, the clicks, the money. Done with feasting on the flesh we are now down to gnawing the bones and sucking out the marrow. What, you wonder, will be left at the end?

There are two things worth saying about this. First, no useful purpose is served here. This is not good for the Premier League, or good for how we consume this thing. There is a general principle that grandiose failure is more interesting than efficient success. Stories about a non-tortured genius or unflawed heroes rarely catch the imagination.

 

[Siorac]

I mean, yeah, sure, well-written and I agree - but ironically, he's doing the exact same thing he's writing about: gnawing the bones and sucking the last drops of marrow of our general awfulness which is becoming old and stale news. Soon, no one will care, just as no one outside Birmingham cares about Aston Villa getting relegated.

 

[MUFC OK]

Confidence is shot, mentality is on the floor. We have no resilience whatsoever and when things don't go our way we fold like a wet paper bag.

This can turn around though, look at how hapless Arsenal were last season vs now. We came from behind to win several times last year too. It's not just that the players are sh*t, the majority are not.

 

[mav_9me]

Confidence is shot, mentality is on the floor. We have no resilience whatsoever and when things don't go our way we fold like a wet paper bag.

This can turn around though, look at how hapless Arsenal were last season vs now. We came from behind to win several times last year too. It's not just that the players are sh*t, the majority are not.

Arteta has taken 2.5 yrs to turn it around for arsenal. And that's with a fantastic summer window, which we haven't had for God knows how long.

The actual lesson from Arsenal is Arteta has done good despite massive errors like Willian and Auba, despite a lack of proper support structure and owners probably just as bad as Glazers if not worse. So it is possible for the right guy to improve things but still needs backing.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Confidence is shot, mentality is on the floor. We have no resilience whatsoever and when things don't go our way we fold like a wet paper bag.

This can turn around though, look at how hapless Arsenal were last season vs now. We came from behind to win several times last year too. It's not just that the players are sh*t, the majority are not.

Arteta got rid of players he felt were a problem and brought young players into that team. Sometimes youngsters lift the team with their enthusiasm and energy.

 

[Buster15]

Arteta got rid of players he felt were a problem and brought young players into that team. Sometimes youngsters lift the team with their enthusiasm and energy.

Very much agree.
One of the primary causes of the low morale comes from the clear and distinct lack of leadership.
Decisive action can have a lifting effect.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Very much agree.
One of the primary causes of the low morale comes from the clear and distinct lack of leadership.
Decisive action can have a lifting effect.

Would love to be a fly on the wall just to find out who are the main whingers.

 

[Buster15]

Would love to be a fly on the wall just to find out who are the main whingers.

I would imagine that Pogba wouldn't be unwilling to voice his opinion.

Anyway. The squad badly needs a fundamental clear out.
And the recruitment absolutely must focus on character as well as ability and not just the headline signings. Because very few have actually done that well.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I would imagine that Pogba wouldn't be unwilling to voice his opinion.

Anyway. The squad badly needs a fundamental clear out.
And the recruitment absolutely must focus on character as well as ability and not just the headline signings. Because very few have actually done that well.

Yes the squad needs a clear out but the club football structure needs a clear out, such as there is one. Then appoint the best in world football. Its not that hard, City and Chelsea have done it. Out U18s got hammered at the weekend at the same time as the first team. We are still way behind them in all areas. The new training ground has been shelved, OT redevelopment gone silent again. We need rid of the parasite owners

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

It’s just a terrible terrible period to be a Manutd supporter!It hurts so much…We have become like the Liverpool of the 90’s….We have become like Arsenal(post 2004)….How have things unravelled so badly for our club?

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Some very knowledgeable posters here swear by Murtough is the right man to turn the club around. Finger crossed.

But so far looks like nothing change from the old regime. At least no obvious improvement can be seen yet

 

[MUFC OK]

Arteta got rid of players he felt were a problem and brought young players into that team. Sometimes youngsters lift the team with their enthusiasm and energy.

Willian/Aubameyang were fundamentally finished at this level/were problems in their dressing room. Let's not pretend they're fighting for the title though; they should get 4th (no european football is a big factor too) which is a huge success for them. Our expectations weren't the same at the start of the season.

We really need a few players whose best years are ahead of them. We are shackled by players on big wages who aren't performing and don't have the right mentality. Impossible for an interim to conduct a clear out but the summer will be huge for us.

 

[Buster15]

Yes the squad needs a clear out but the club football structure needs a clear out, such as there is one. Then appoint the best in world football. Its not that hard, City and Chelsea have done it. Out U18s got hammered at the weekend at the same time as the first team. We are still way behind them in all areas. The new training ground has been shelved, OT redevelopment gone silent again. We need rid of the parasite owners

Depressing isn't it.

 

[Trex]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

 

[DoctorEvil]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

There is a limit to what can be achieved by polishing a turd. Eventually the financial side will suffer from the lack of sporting success. IMO, we are at best 2-3 years from that point.

So, poorly run after all.

 

[Trex]

There is a limit to what can be achieved by polishing a turd. Eventually the financial side will suffer from the lack of sporting success. IMO, we are at best 2-3 years from that point.

So, poorly run after all.

Yes but we don't have oil money so we sign a Ronaldo instead of a DM because sponsors like that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Willian/Aubameyang were fundamentally finished at this level/were problems in their dressing room. Let's not pretend they're fighting for the title though; they should get 4th (no european football is a big factor too) which is a huge success for them. Our expectations weren't the same at the start of the season.

We really need a few players whose best years are ahead of them. We are shackled by players on big wages who aren't performing and don't have the right mentality. Impossible for an interim to conduct a clear out but the summer will be huge for us.

Think the wage structure has ended up being the root of a lot of our problems, overpaid, average players with over inflated egos, more bothered about their social media image than being a hard working footballer.

 

[McGrathsipan]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

Its all about context .

The company is a world class business, awful sporting organisation.

The blindside for the owners is that the brand will become less appealing over time. They need to invest expertise into the sporting side - not just dumb money

 

[Trex]

Its all about context .

The company is a world class business, awful sporting organisation.

The blindside for the owners is that the brand will become less appealing over time. They need to invest expertise into the sporting side - not just dumb money

They'll only do that if United fans stop getting excited by "brand signings" like Cr7 and PP6 and demand a genuine sporting project, for now expect the usual merry go round.

 

[Jezpeza]

We are in an endless cycle. Its okay to need a rebuild - but whats the point if you are expecting it to happen in a season or two? We keep sacking managers and then not giving the new one time or sufficient backing. Lets for an example pretend RR stays on, and wants to implement high press and sign the right players, then he needs almost an entire new squad. Its a 5 year project. The fans, owners, media will create the pressure to oust him after two years of no trophies. Then we get a new manager. He wants a big physical side of players at their peak and we set about demolishing what the previous guy did and signing competely different players for different football. Dont see the cycle of it ending here

 

[Moriarty]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

City and Chelsea don't have to. If we cease to be commerically successful, we'll be up shit creek without a paddle.

 

[Rozay]

Imagine, finishing in the top 3 two years straight has gotten the press exasperated and see us as a lost cause.

They are the ones that perpetuate the ‘crisis’ - whereas objectively, anyone looking at the table in the last 3 years can easily see that there is no catastrophe in the way they are implying. Regardless of how many thought pieces they write, rants they go on - they still struggle to deny the fact that we have finished above 17 and 18 of the other 19 teams in the league the last two seasons. No matter how many ‘yea but’s’ they want to add to that, those are cold hard facts that do not fit in with any of their weekly monologues.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Arteta has taken 2.5 yrs to turn it around for arsenal. And that's with a fantastic summer window, which we haven't had for God knows how long.

The actual lesson from Arsenal is Arteta has done good despite massive errors like Willian and Auba, despite a lack of proper support structure and owners probably just as bad as Glazers if not worse. So it is possible for the right guy to improve things but still needs backing.

Auba wasn’t that bad, the ending was sour but when he joined didn’t he score more than anyone for like 18 months. He probably kept Arteta on a job.

I’m not sure sure they’re suddenly ‘turned around’ but credit to Arteta if he can push in CL this season, I still think they’ll end up EL along with us.

 

[Andycoleno9]

By pundits you mean FC Mates who 3 years were defending our former manager and who were saying that he needs to build his own team? Those pundits should shut up and not talk about United

 

[Dante]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

That doesn't mean we're not run poorly.

United have spent more on transfers than both City and Chelsea in recent years. Objectively speaking, the Return On Investment on those transfers has been terrible.

You're right that our commercial interests have produced a decent profit in absolute numbers. But it could have been much higher if we'd found success that was comparable to the amount of investment we've made on the squad.

You only need to look at our direct competitors to see how much better we could are at creating bigger revenues based on lower expenses. City have a fraction of the market footprint of United, but earn almost as much as us whilst spending less.

 

[Classnordic]

By pundits you mean FC Mates who 3 years were defending our former manager and who were saying that he needs to build his own team? Those pundits should shut up and not talk about United

Its beyond cringe. How shameless they have been over the past years.

 

[mav_9me]

Auba wasn’t that bad, the ending was sour but when he joined didn’t he score more than anyone for like 18 months. He probably kept Arteta on a job.

I’m not sure sure they’re suddenly ‘turned around’ but credit to Arteta if he can push in CL this season, I still think they’ll end up EL along with us.

Yeah turned around is too big a phrase for just one season. But he has improved their situation

 

[Ludens the Red]

Yes the squad needs a clear out but the club football structure needs a clear out, such as there is one. Then appoint the best in world football. Its not that hard, City and Chelsea have done it. Out U18s got hammered at the weekend at the same time as the first team. We are still way behind them in all areas. The new training ground has been shelved, OT redevelopment gone silent again. We need rid of the parasite owners

Meh, city have had this fancy academy going on ten years, keep winning at youth level but the only player to break through is Phil Foden. Barely any of their youngsters are currently playing in the Premier League either. Completely pointless exercise. I always hear about city’s kids but I’ve never seen them, not even away against Swindon in the cup…..
Say what you want about United we still have players coming through and contributing to the first team. For me that is how the success of an academy is defined. Not how pretty the training ground or facilities are or how the under 18’s do.
To be fair to Chelsea they’ve started finally having academy products in their team but they were semi forced into it by the transfer ban and Lampard basically forcing it down Romans throat.

 

[Trex]

That doesn't mean we're not run poorly.

United have spent more on transfers than both City and Chelsea in recent years. Objectively speaking, the Return On Investment on those transfers has been terrible.

You're right that our commercial interests have produced a decent profit in absolute numbers. But it could have been much higher if we'd found success that was comparable to the amount of investment we've made on the squad.

You only need to look at our direct competitors to see how much better we could are at creating bigger revenues based on lower expenses. City have a fraction of the market footprint of United, but earn almost as much as us whilst spending less.

Part of the reason we're so successful commercially its because we invest in brands unlike city and Chelsea, Ronaldo or Pogba are so valuable because they're celebrity footballers, City don't purchase celebrity footballers, if we go down their route we'll have to make decisions that isn't necessarily best for profit.
You just can't have it all.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Meh, city have had this fancy academy going on ten years, keep winning at youth level but the only player to break through is Phil Foden. Barely any of their youngsters are currently playing in the Premier League either. Completely pointless exercise.
Say what you want about United we still have players coming through and contributing to the first team. For me that is how the success of an academy is defined. Not how pretty the training ground or facilities are or how the under 18’s do.
To be fair to Chelsea they’ve started finally having academy products in their team but they were semi forced into it by the transfer ban and Lampard basically forcing it down Romans throat.

Not sure what your point is. They have some great young talent on the books Foden is exceptional, and remember Sancho left City for more opportunties. My point is we are still well behind on youth development. But we dont have the oil dollars to buy in whoever we want, so we should focus on youth system alongside a targeted and more effective recruitment strategy. So not buying the likes of Pogba or signing a Ronadlo or Sanchez, would save us money in long term. I would rather see youth coming through than disinterested prima donnas. What about you?

 

[dove]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

We clearly don't prioritise sporting success but the idea that we are being run poorly is clearly true. Just look at the managers we appointed post SAF. Beggars belief really. All of them were doomed to fail from the very first day because we hired either dinosaurs or the ones who would struggle to get a job in Europe's TOP 5 leagues. Makes you think that Ed is a Liverpool spy infiltrated to take us down.

 

[big_jeffstar]

The idea we are poorly run is false, we just don't prioritize sporting success over financial success like City and Chelsea do

yep, we already have the history, we aren’t desperate to create it like City, and that’s actually a pretty big problem in itself.. the owners are happy to live off it, they don’t really care what the fans think or wether they now want to win trophies, it’s too expensive for them, and too much of a gamble, why bother when they’re already making an absolute killing anyway?

 

[reddevilz007]

Arteta got rid of players he felt were a problem and brought young players into that team. Sometimes youngsters lift the team with their enthusiasm and energy.

yep, I cant wait for the new manager to get rid of our rotten players. It would be the best thing to happen to us. Fingers crossed.

 

[Bennie Blanco]

I mean, yeah, sure, well-written and I agree - but ironically, he's doing the exact same thing he's writing about: gnawing the bones and sucking the last drops of marrow of our general awfulness which is becoming old and stale news. Soon, no one will care, just as no one outside Birmingham cares about Aston Villa getting relegated.

Wrong. I have all the time in the world for Villa, I care.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Imagine, finishing in the top 3 two years straight has gotten the press exasperated and see us as a lost cause.

They are the ones that perpetuate the ‘crisis’ - whereas objectively, anyone looking at the table in the last 3 years can easily see that there is no catastrophe in the way they are implying. Regardless of how many thought pieces they write, rants they go on - they still struggle to deny the fact that we have finished above 17 and 18 of the other 19 teams in the league the last two seasons. No matter how many ‘yea but’s’ they want to add to that, those are cold hard facts that do not fit in with any of their weekly monologues.

It depends on the point of reference - if it is Tottenham or Arsenal, then fine. It is is City or Liverpool, then we are a million miles away (and please don’t bring up last season when games were played in empty stadia and Liverpool had to play their midfield in defence). Given our history and, more pertinently, financial resources, we should be comparing ourselves to Euope’s elite rather than consoling ourselves that it is not as bad as Spurs.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Honestly at this point it’s down to the owners to sort things out. We can’t keep blaming the manager, players or anyone else. It sucks because we can all see the issues, Ralf has come in and made clear the direction the club should be taking. Of course, the owners are the only ones with the power to make the changes needed.

 

[Rozay]

It depends on the point of reference - if it is Tottenham or Arsenal, then fine. It is is City or Liverpool, then we are a million miles away (and please don’t bring up last season when games were played in empty stadia and Liverpool had to play their midfield in defence). Given our history and, more pertinently, financial resources, we should be comparing ourselves to Euope’s elite rather than consoling ourselves that it is not as bad as Spurs.

Whatever context you try to use, given that nobody is promised first place, second best is not a catastrophe. So what am I supposed to do with last season? Say it doesn’t matter because Liverpool had injuries? The season before we were also third. We want to win, but any sort of ‘we’re even tired of talking about how shit this lot are now’ from the media simply just does not work for a team finishing second. It just doesn’t.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Confidence is shot, mentality is on the floor. We have no resilience whatsoever and when things don't go our way we fold like a wet paper bag.

This can turn around though, look at how hapless Arsenal were last season vs now. We came from behind to win several times last year too. It's not just that the players are sh*t, the majority are not.

As for confidence being shot that in itself is a problem. You can lose to an all-time City team but a number of our recent draws/poor performances haven’t come on the end of drubbings, we’ve actually not lost many under RR so if they’re still struggling for confidence from our previous manager they need shifting on that alone.

The players are shite, & a number have been for sometime. The difference is Bruno isn’t providing all world statistical performances to hide the dross others have been serving up for some time.

Arsenal are falling arse ways into 4th place, I’d barely call this resurgence something to aspire to. We’ve drawn our way out of it & Spurs are. . . Spurs. Being Arsenal next season would be marginally less depressing, relying on others to provide a chance at 4th.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Whatever context you try to use, given that nobody is promised first place, second best is not a catastrophe. So what am I supposed to do with last season? Say it doesn’t matter because Liverpool had injuries? The season before we were also third. We want to win, but any sort of ‘we’re even tired of talking about how shit this lot are now’ from the media simply just does not work for a team finishing second. It just doesn’t.

Second in a season in which we did not compete for the title after 7 preceding seasons in which we also did not compete for the title (and in which we got knocked out of the CL Group Stage after at least 7 years of not being a serious contender in that competition). Second also acheived with a style of football and a manager which, as anyone willing to open their eyes could see, was never going to take United back towards the big prizes. Apart from perhaps Jose’s first season, there has been no genuine grounds for any confidence or optimism in United since Fergie left. When was last time United were not in a title race for 9 years? I don’t know, probably pre-Busby.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Whatever context you try to use, given that nobody is promised first place, second best is not a catastrophe. So what am I supposed to do with last season? Say it doesn’t matter because Liverpool had injuries? The season before we were also third. We want to win, but any sort of ‘we’re even tired of talking about how shit this lot are now’ from the media simply just does not work for a team finishing second. It just doesn’t.

Not all second place finishes are alike though Rose, it was patently obvious that multiple things aligned to give United the position last season. Second is not a catastrophe but it was an overachievement for team & management that was unsustainable. Set aside Lampard & Liverpool what about last seasons 2nd place finish left you feeling truly hopeful for this season? I didn’t see us collapsing as we have but it wasn’t a solid building block.