LVG: Man Utd is a commercial club, not like Bayern Munich.
- Thread starter Giggsyking
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This is true, however most real state in London is owned by russians,chinese,americans and oil barons...sooner or later english clubs would have been bought anyway, especially if there's no 50+1 to prevent the cheatcode of a foreign billionaire buying a midtable club to make it big (Chelsea and City).
You can't blame Bayern for problems that can be traced back to english officials and government decades ago.
This is on english officials for not doing their job, they even lobbied for Saudi Arabia to take over Newcastle.
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I found him totally detestable aside from a few drunk uncle moments which only underscored his bizarre mix of idiocy and self-absorption really.
Man those LVG years were rough, I just did not look forward to any game and even if I did have one on it ended up just being background noise more often than not. LVG as a man and in press conferences i did find to be entertaining though.
Can't really argue with what he's saying about us as a club, although we seem to be moving in the right direction now though.
Can't really argue with what he's saying about us as a club, although we seem to be moving in the right direction now though.
It won't be long before someone changes this to, "Hoeness is footballing man, so he knows what formations to play. Woodward is a banker, he knows feck all"
True..
Well Bayern has a football tradition, we have United DNA.
Ok maybe we are more of commercial club lately...
Ok maybe we are more of commercial club lately...
Yes, I‘m not blaming Bayern or any other club or football association. This is purely self-inflicted by the English FA. It‘s never about what‘s best for the game, only about what‘s in it for them.
LvG is brilliant. He arrived at Bayern having guided bloody AZ Alkmaar to the dutch league title, their second in their entire history. Like guiding Everton to the title. The very next season newly appointed Koeman lost 7 of the first 16 games before getting the sack. During LvGs tutelage AZ only lost 4 games during the previous season.
Back during Bayerns dark ages LvG arrived and turned the whole team upside down which was much needed. More than a manager he was a "football teacher", a proper coach who taught football mechanics and fundamentals. Bayern are still reaping the rewards of van Gaals foundations to this day.
As for his flaws they are well documented. He is terrible at handling divas which is particularly bad when the player is Rivaldo at Barcelona or Ribéry at Bayern, he clashes with them because it's his way or no way. As bad as he is at man managing divas he is equally adept promoting youth. Without a shadow of a doubt the man that boasts the best XI + bench of all time when it comes to those he promoted. The players owe him and we as a public owe him because several of those who became all time greats would never have made it with a normal manager in charge, they would have been shipped off. For example Thomas Müller who was to be shipped off to Hoffenheim and never be heard from again had LvG not intervened.
Valdes
Melchiot Puyol Badstuber Alaba
Seedorf Davids Xavi
Müller Kluivert Iniesta
Rashford
Gabri
Landzaat
Lens
McNair
Musampa
Kraft
Back during Bayerns dark ages LvG arrived and turned the whole team upside down which was much needed. More than a manager he was a "football teacher", a proper coach who taught football mechanics and fundamentals. Bayern are still reaping the rewards of van Gaals foundations to this day.
As for his flaws they are well documented. He is terrible at handling divas which is particularly bad when the player is Rivaldo at Barcelona or Ribéry at Bayern, he clashes with them because it's his way or no way. As bad as he is at man managing divas he is equally adept promoting youth. Without a shadow of a doubt the man that boasts the best XI + bench of all time when it comes to those he promoted. The players owe him and we as a public owe him because several of those who became all time greats would never have made it with a normal manager in charge, they would have been shipped off. For example Thomas Müller who was to be shipped off to Hoffenheim and never be heard from again had LvG not intervened.
Valdes
Melchiot Puyol Badstuber Alaba
Seedorf Davids Xavi
Müller Kluivert Iniesta
Rashford
Gabri
Landzaat
Lens
McNair
Musampa
Kraft
All these years later and he is still spot on. This isn't a football club, but a financial and marketing agency. This summer will prove it once and for all.
What will happen this summer?
Very little to do with football, I imagine. Appoint Poch, then buy Kane and Rice for a total of 200M. Throw in Benzema somewhere in there as well in the final days of the window on 400k/week. Offer Rashford a new contract 350k/week.
Like the club bought Shaw, Fernandes, Sancho, Fred etc?
The “is” in that first sentence is categorically wrong. Even ignoring the abject football he presided over at United he’s achieved absolutely feck all in the five seasons since to prove we were wrong to sack him.
Thats always in the eye of the beholder right?
Besides how else do you propose for United to compete or attempt to compete against the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool or even City? Rely on the history and charms?
How will they pay the salaries of the players when competing against the likes of RM, Barca or even Bayern if they don't have a strong commercial arm?
I think people are living in pre-EPL days/past -- where playing for United in from of 80,000 fans meant something.
Without a strong commercial arm, United would have been a Nottingham Forrest post-Fergie's retirement. History but that's about it. Roman's entry into the league changed everything.
If only people thought before coming to with rubbish, isn't it.
People moan when new sponsor is announced and then moan when we don't spend money in the market addressing weak positions. Maybe they think ManUtd get revenue by crowdfunding.
Can you explain why we aren't football but marketing agency only?
I guess Ole was a marketing manager?
Varane, Sancho are not good footballers, they are commercial assets we bought?
Very disjointed point altogether.
Liverpool are not in the same “billionaire” owner category as Chelsea or City, Bayern regularly pay less due to their history and the prestige they hold for certain players. Real and Barca have a monopoly on certain South American players who grew up watching them and Man Utd have their own pull not just in terms of their unique history but in terms ofthe worldwide exposure and fan base that that history built.
It’s hard to know what you are trying to say. Utd are in the mix as a global footballing power and recognised brand. However, other clubs seem to successfully manage balancing their business side to supplement the football side while the valid criticism of Utd is that the commercial excess seeps into footballing decisions, social media presence, need for marquee names instead of more economic choices leading to higher salaries, leading to dressing room unrest...the Sanchez debacle for example.
Utd should be able to compete...but they are making a balls of it for everyone except the stakeholders...and that will come crashing down eventually unless we start winning again.
For the last 10 years there hasn't been a footballing side to this club. Only commercial. You can and should have both, but we don't. No one in this club has a vision or even a semblance of a plan what footballing ideology we want to represent or what style of play we aspire to. The managerial appointments and the haphazard buying of players is a testament to this. The reason for this is that competitive football takes a backseat to marketability and finance. Wrong priorities with a severe lack of vision has left this club in a state of permanent confusion. Which is what brings us to today - a bunch of players bought by different managers over the span of 10 years trying to fit together under yet another different manager with a very different style of play.
You are right, we can't compete with the oil clubs. We don't have the luxury to ignore fans and have someone pump money from the outside. And the club can't rely on 80 000 fans. Football is a global sport now. You can find Manchester United fans everywhere. Non-local fans usually become such when they are children and are exposed to a club. But exposure happens by competitive success, not by a brilliant marketing strategy. Brilliant marketing strategy doesn't get you plastered all over the TV on the other side of the world. Playing good football and winning silverware does. I imagine there aren't many Wolverhampton fans in South Africa, for example. This is why you need to succeed competitively, so you can attract new generation of fans globally and keep the brand in the spotlight. But the club has been irrelevant in this regard for a decade. There are teenagers today that don't really know Manchester United, but they know City, Liverpool and such. Revenues have plateaued and the other clubs are gaining on us, which would have been unthinkable sometime ago.
And I just love the argument that "the Glazers have spent XXX amount of money and bought XXX player, so they must have a plan". The Glazers didn't buy anything. This is all the club's money. What they have done is drain 1 billion off the club, while using the rest to buy big names to pacify the fans and pretend they have a plan. You can buy all the big names in the world and spend a bajillion pounds, but without any plan or vision you end up like us and PSG. Only, PSG have infinite money and can afford infinite mistakes. And they will eventually get it right. We can't afford a brute force approach.
This is why I am exceedingly pessimistic about the summer. You don't become competent over a fortnight.
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Bayern is very much a commercial club however they are much better run in the footballing department and none of their domestic competition can come close to their financial clout.
Its only seen as a commercial club because of the lack of success. I bet if we had success, people will be lauding Woodward as some CEO genius.
It failed because it was the cumulative issues of -- the lack of investment (due to speculative reasons) during the later Fergie years (but including poor buys like a Bebe, Djembax2 etc), the emergence of the oil clubs and poor succession plan.
Probably. But probably this would also mean that he had made good footballing decisions, so this would be justified.
For sure. People in the Caf would like to see everything very binary when the reality is far from that. He wouldn't have lasted 7-8 years if he was as bad as the Caf thinks he is. But saying that he has wasted tremendous amounts of $$. But you blame the board for that -- zero succession planning and that's partly due to the lack of a DOF which Fergie was one too. But you cannot let both Fergie and Gill go the same time. That's 35+yrs of institutional knowledge gone in a day.
That's what I partly mean by succession planning or the lack of. Just plain dumb. Don't know who was responsible for that. Its not Woodward for sure.
To top that off you allow the next manager to chop off the entire multi-league and CL winning staff. We were in deep shite even before that season started, never mind the long term implications.
Wonder how Rashford would’ve developed as a 9 if he’d stayed a bit longer
As early as 2010 LvG, then 60, spoke about retirement. He had promised his wife Truus that they would no longer move around after his München adventure came to an end.
Then he produced magic with a weak NT, begged Truus to allow him a crack at the premier league going back on his promise. And he did rather well at United but got sacked before he could fulfil his mission. Retirement at 65 followed.
Then during the "Five fec all seasons" he was retired before returning to NT 6 months ago so not sure what you wanted him to do whilst retired.
Disneyland of the Premier League
He should have retired before taking the United job. That would have saved everyone a lot of time and money. He certainly didn’t do “rather well” while he was at the club and his “mission” seemed to be repurposing football into a cure for insomnia.
Nail on the head. Under the succession plan umbrella you can include poor managerial appointments, had we appointed Klopp straight after Fergie no one would be complaining about lack of success etc, just like they didn't under Fergie.
Bayern are as commercial as we it's just that hey lack our huge global appeal. In addition, they also have close to zero domestic competition and so perhaps have less of a need to exploit the commercial side of it.
As for LVG saying we only care about money, well we have spent a heck of a lot of money on players over the last 8 or 9 years for a club who only care about money.
Poor succession planning and an organisational structure that has been unfit for our nature, scale and complexity are the root of all our problems over the last number of years, nothing to do with commercial sponsorship deals etc or indeed due to lack of transfer spend.
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This extinct wanker needs to shut up already.
While he's not wrong on us being a commercial club, he can feck with trying to ruin our chnaces here. He's also speaking of a time before we had the current club structure in place so hopefully it has improved.
He's absoutely right and he's entitled to say it. If I was asked to give a manager career advice I'd tell them to be very wary of our set-up too, especially if I had first hand experience of it like LVG does.
Hopefully our new set up means it's less the case than it used to be though.
Hopefully our new set up means it's less the case than it used to be though.
He may have been a shit manager at Utd, but what he has said is 100% right. Even Woodward admitted it when he said Utds commercial success doesnt depend on what happens on the pitch. Thats why we are where we are. No planning at all. I am hoping now he has gone things will change, but wont hold my breath
Yes ! hopefully if Ten Hag has any sense he'd rejects us.
He’s right, you might not like it but provide a shred of evidence to the contrary.
He’s correct by all means but Woodward is gone and the club is a lot more structured on the football side of things than it was when he was here.
So here’s hoping.
So here’s hoping.
This is exactly why Klopp didn't come. All the wooden tops who bang on about the Glazers' transfer budget need to understand this is primarily what has been wrong with the club throughout the Glazer era. If we don't change it won't matter who the manager is.
if we are giving out contracts without a manager to Bruno, Rashford and Shaw who have been dreadful this season then not much has actually changed.
I applaud LVG for saying it, anyone throwing shade on the Glazers is ok in my book
Exactly. What good is a large transfer budget when the people deciding how it’s spent are looking for big name stars and not the best players for the team?