Can we talk about the elephant in the room when it comes to purging this squad?

[Fortitude]

I wrote something about this the other day and decided to delete it in the end, but the post below brought the thoughts to the fore again:

Imagine if you were bad at your job and couldn't be bothered but your boss couldn't sack you. Imagine if he tells you to buck your ideas up and you just say "no" and explain to him that you have a contract with 3 more years on it and you are happy to sit out the rest of that contract on full pay in the reserves.

There is a reason a lot of top sides are struggling with player power and motivating these overpaid pricks. The players have so much power and you might have £500m worth of players in your squad and a manager you can replace for £10m and hope that the new one motivates the players. Its an easy decision.

There is a reason United have been going through managers so quickly. The players know who holds the power.

Lets be honest, it had to get really bad before they sacked Ole and I don't think the players disliked him, I think they just couldn't be bothered. Things weren't working out and the easiest thing was just to let the normal scenario play out. Low effort levels -> poor results -> new manager -> decide if we want to work for him -> rinse and repeat.

It’s a very real problem for us going forward no matter who the manager is.

It’s all well and good talking about clear outs and such, but what can actually be done with this squad and the plethora of players on wages few others will even consider if they refuse to leave?

 

[Fridge chutney]

Once the manager, presumably eth, gets players like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Matic firing on all cylinders again, things will look up. Sometimes players go through lulls.

 

[TheRedHearted]

I wrote something about this the other day and decided to delete it in the end, but the post below brought the thoughts to the fore again:



It’s a very real problem for us going forward no matter who the manager is.

It’s all well and good talking about clear outs and such, but what can actually be done with this squad and the plethora of players on wages few others will even consider if they refuse to leave?

We’ll ragnick spoke about this. He said to recruit younger players (age limit actually on contracts), recruiting cheaper with smaller wages. That is the future and I’m sure ten Hag is on board with that although any manager would love a splash signing to be the spine of the team.

Once the manager, presumably eth, gets players like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Matic firing on all cylinders again, things will look up. Sometimes players go through lulls.

Yeah but that’s not going to solve our problem long term. The players are on too large of wages and it a detrimental to the power dynamic.
That being said - I once read the Glazers love the large wages becuase it puts their losses at a higher amount which is better for yearly expenses. That being said why not balance the wages through out the squad?

 

[JPRouve]

We’ll ragnick spoke about this. He said to recruit younger players (age limit actually on contracts), recruiting cheaper with smaller wages. That is the future and I’m sure ten Hag is on board with that although any manager would love a splash signing to be the spine of the team.

Yeah but that’s not going to solve our problem long term. The players are on too large of wages and it a detrimental to the power dynamic.
That being said - I once read the Glazers love the large wages becuase it puts their losses at a higher amount which is better for yearly expenses. That being said why not balance the wages through out the squad?

What do you mean by that?

 

[BradtheAmerican]

Once the manager, presumably eth, gets players like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Matic firing on all cylinders again, things will look up. Sometimes players go through lulls.

I''m an optimistic guy and agree with most of this post.

 

[SirReginald]

The problem(s) with United have never really been seen at any other team, certainly not all at once. It’s unprecedented and therefore difficult to really give an expected recovery time.

Whilst player power appears to be a issue but it’s not the main problem. If it was such a problem it wouldn’t be exclusive to United.

Wages, agent fees, bonuses. This is really your own doing. As hard as it is to reduce these figures, it is possible. United and In particular clueless Ed, really failed to curb the upward trend and it spiraled out of control. He mitigated some of it with some good sponsorship deals but this will take years to clear. All prospective new players will now know they can milk this cash cow for everything it’s got.

Pride and Respect. Your players clearly lack this. Countless times you’ve left the field after a poor performance and it’s fallen on De Gea and not the captain to apologize. This is disgusting. They don’t care and their ego completely blinds them to how you all feel.

Playing ability level and varying playing styles is another issue on top of the pride and respect. You definitely aren’t scouting these players well enough. You lack chemistry and players that can change a game.

 

[Garethw]

About 20 odd years ago Chelsea signed Winston Bogarde on a free transfer.

After a season or so he found himself sitting on the bench most of the time. He was asked whether he wanted to move as he was in his twilight years and not getting game time. He replied by saying “ Why would I want to move? I’m being paid £50k a week and no other club in the world will pay me that!”

I get the impression that a lot of our squad have a similar stance to him.

 

[Sandikan]

"There is a reason United have been going through managers so quickly. The players know who holds the power."

I hate it when people say this sort of thing, as it's been about 8-9 years since Fergie, and barely any players have played that whole time scale.

It's different players! Unless you think about a turnover of 100 players all think the same way?

 

[Velvet Revolver]

About 20 odd years ago Chelsea signed Winston Bogarde on a free transfer.

After a season or so he found himself sitting on the bench most of the time. He was asked whether he wanted to move as he was in his twilight years and not getting game time. He replied by saying “ Why would I want to move? I’m being paid £50k a week and no other club in the world will pay me that!”

I get the impression that a lot of our squad have a similar stance to him.

This is what i think too. Which shows a lack of ambition and we dont need players like that. The funny thing is our starting 11 also has that mentality

 

[Leftback99]

It's why no one in this squad should be getting new bigger contracts right now. The Bruno one is baffling, no need whatsoever.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Once the manager, presumably eth, gets players like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Matic firing on all cylinders again, things will look up. Sometimes players go through lulls.

If ETH doesn't purge that lot the he deserves the sack

 

[Skills]

"There is a reason United have been going through managers so quickly. The players know who holds the power."

The problem is actually just our fans. Manchester United fans are the equivalent of apes trying to figure out how a PC works in modern football terms. We haven't been going through managers quickly - it's just that you're still living in the stone age of football. It's the major challenge of taking this club forward - how do you also drag the apes along to the next stage of evolution?

 

[Velvet Revolver]

"There is a reason United have been going through managers so quickly. The players know who holds the power."

I hate it when people say this sort of thing, as it's been about 8-9 years since Fergie, and barely any players have played that whole time scale.

It's different players! Unless you think about a turnover of 100 players all think the same way?

Moyes - outed by murmors And leaks by former players

lvg - board wanted the almighty jose

jose - the virus and the lazy bones outed him. He was right in hindsight but football was

ole - dug his own grave, gave average players roo much power and contracts and captains armband

so 2.5 out of 4 managers were outed by player power

 

[TheReligion]

I wrote something about this the other day and decided to delete it in the end, but the post below brought the thoughts to the fore again:



It’s a very real problem for us going forward no matter who the manager is.

It’s all well and good talking about clear outs and such, but what can actually be done with this squad and the plethora of players on wages few others will even consider if they refuse to leave?

You know Cavani, Pogba, Lingard and Mata are going right? Add to that a few others who seem likely to exit.

It’s as if this is the first time a club has had to go through this.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Not easy to purge the squad.

But the new incoming manager must be given full freedom in letting players go, maybe in terms of incoming players, the recruitment team will support the new manager, but for the existing squad, I believe only very few deserve to remain and hopefully the board will accept that now.

 

[Sandikan]

Moyes - outed by murmors And leaks by former players

lvg - board wanted the almighty jose

jose - the virus and the lazy bones outed him. He was right in hindsight but football was

ole - dug his own grave, gave average players roo much power and contracts and captains armband

so 2.5 out of 4 managers were outed by player power

Moyes was outed because he'd taken a team who'd cruised the league down to 7th. Just in case you'd forgotten.

 

[Sandikan]

You know Cavani, Pogba, Lingard and Mata are going right? Add to that a few others who seem likely to exit.

It’s as if this is the first time a club has had to go through this.

Love your naivety.
Wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of those stay on

"protect the value".

 

[Fridge chutney]

If ETH doesn't purge that lot the he deserves the sack

You are already turning on ETH and he hasn't even signed the contract yet!

Ideally he would make a couple upgrades like Matic for Kalvin Philips or similar.

 

[TheReligion]

Love your naivety.
Wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of those stay on

"protect the value".

Who? they are all out of contract.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Once the manager, presumably eth, gets players like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Matic firing on all cylinders again, things will look up. Sometimes players go through lulls.

That’s very true. But the question is who is going through a lull and who simply not good enough or past.
Going though a lull has relatively young and has shown signs in the past of being capable:
Rashford, Shaw, Donny (on loan)

Not good enough, or too old, or not worth the effort .
AWB, Maguire, Matic , Mata , Pogba (consistency and input not worth the drama ),

 

[Sandikan]

Who? they are all out of contract.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Pogba suddenly be announced as a huge contract.
And there's no more reason to ship Mata out this season then there has been for about 3 or 4 years.
We'll see on Lingard too.

Cavani has been gone since the summer in fairness.

 

[Random Task]

You know Cavani, Pogba, Lingard and Mata are going right? Add to that a few others who seem likely to exit.

It’s as if this is the first time a club has had to go through this.

Martial, DVB, Henderson, Jones, Tuanzebe and Bailly all want out too, plus a few others are considering their future - according to reports anyway.

I don't think it will be at all difficult to clear out the squad, especially if Ten Hag is as demanding as they say.

 

[TheReligion]

Martial, DVB, Henderson, Jones, Tuanzebe and Bailly all want out too, plus a few others are considering their future - according to reports anyway.

I don't think it will be at all difficult to clear out the squad, especially if Ten Hag is as demanding as they say.

It’s all set up for a clear out and the timing is perfect

Yet you still have posters arguing black is white.

 

[glazed]

The transfer system is highly profitable for the clubs. If all players could leave or be sacked on three months notice then it would cost them a lot more. But that's how it is in most of the economy. But it does also distort the market in the way the OP describes.

 

[TheReligion]

What is the ‘elephant in the room’ again?

Makes no sense

 

[Classical Mechanic]

"There is a reason United have been going through managers so quickly. The players know who holds the power."

I hate it when people say this sort of thing, as it's been about 8-9 years since Fergie, and barely any players have played that whole time scale.

It's different players! Unless you think about a turnover of 100 players all think the same way?

The average tenure of a PL manager is about 450 days. LVG, Mourinho and Ole all did more than that so we’re not even going through managers at an unusual rate.

 

[Hansi Fick]

You haven't "gone through managers so quickly". No other top club with a modicum of self-respect would have given three seasons to Solksjaer.

If anything, your players have become depressed and worn out by the poor quality of management above them.

 

[Sandikan]

The average tenure of a PL manager is about 450 days. LVG, Mourinho and Ole all did more than that so we’re not even going through managers at an unusual rate.

Well quite...that was the premise of someone I'd quoted, not my own.

 

[Suv666]

What is the ‘elephant in the room’ again?

Makes no sense

Shaw

 

[Suv666]

Culling is needed. We need to get rid of at least 10 players. Its going to take 2-3 years for that to happen.
Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Matic, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Pogba, Rashford, Cavani, Ronaldo, Jones, Lingard
We aren't getting rid of these lot in a single season.
I doubt we'll get more that 80 mil (couple of free agents tbf) for them combined. That's how crap our squad is.

 

[pcaming]

The only issue with United is that we still play them regardless of form or attitude. At other clubs they’re simply left out altogether, see how long they’ll take out of the squad. You don’t have to do it to all, and they’re not all bad, some just genuinely in poor form.

 

[Deery]

What is the ‘elephant in the room’ again?

Makes no sense

Attitude.

 

[Fortitude]

You know Cavani, Pogba, Lingard and Mata are going right? Add to that a few others who seem likely to exit.

Mata and Lingard are irrelevant; Cavani and Pogba are a very small percentage of the issue. There are more that can be named on outrageous contracts who have no reason to leave knowing full well they won’t get more elsewhere than not.

It’s as if this is the first time a club has had to go through this.

Name an equivalency to what we’re in the midst of.

The difference is our players are on wages that can’t be shifted, other clubs who have gone through culls have not had the issue to such an extent, well, certainly not those who didn’t pay severely for it I.e. Leeds, Sunderland or Derby.

 

[Fortitude]

You haven't "gone through managers so quickly". No other top club with a modicum of self-respect would have given three seasons to Solksjaer.

If anything, your players have become depressed and worn out by the poor quality of management above them.

Seems this manager thing is being picked up by posters from the quote. It’s of no relevance to the point being made in terms of players using common sense to sit on ridiculous contracts.

 

[TheReligion]

Mata and Lingard are irrelevant; Cavani and Pogba are a very small percentage of the issue. There are more that can be named on outrageous contracts who have no reason to leave knowing full well they won’t get more elsewhere than not.

Name an equivalency to what we’re in the midst of.

The difference is our players are on wages that can’t be shifted, other clubs who have gone through culls have not had the issue to such an extent, well, certainly not those who didn’t pay severely for it I.e. Leeds, Sunderland or Derby.

Who do you want to shift and who can’t we shift due to their wages?

Why can’t any of our players be coached?

Name a club that has replaced the whole playing squad in one summer?

We are losing a high number of players on frees. Fact. We will sell and move on others. Fact. The new manager will have money to spend. Fact.

What’s the issue here

 

[Deery]

I honestly think it would only take getting rid of the likes of Pogba and Shaw and things would soon settle down.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Once the manager, presumably eth, gets players like Rashford, Maguire, AWB, Pogba and Matic firing on all cylinders again, things will look up. Sometimes players go through lulls.

This. We have a top four squad, massive money to add to it and big allure. We just have had two managers that are struggling at their jobs this season

 

[I'm a beautiful thing]

We need a manager that's in charge of the dressing room instead of the players.
I get the impression that players can go to the likes of Fletcher and Co complain about the manager and get their way.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I like elephants, and they famously can't jump, like Lukaku. The problem with our squad is we had players who were willing (VDB, Lingard) but were not deemed able, but when they asked to leave we thwarted moves... and then still didn't play them. How does anyone think the squad will remain a cohesive unit when we have Lingard making more players who are better than him on other teams, yet sits his ass on the bench? The sense of injustice will affect not only the player in question but also his friends. It's also hard to work in an environment where it's easy to find out wages and you realize some donkey is getting more than you. I don't know the solution though.

 

[Speako]

United are the pyramid head of a monster Sky started to build decades ago.