Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
There is no peace available. Russia aren’t going to stop until they’ve taken eastern Ukraine, which they have no right to.

Hamstringing Russia is about the only option the west has and is doing (albeit not enough on some fronts)
biden is gambling on a regime change that could never happen or take years. both of which will only lead to more innocent deaths and a longer war.
 

frostbite

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the us should be pushing for peace talks. not crippling russian economy which does barely anything to end this war.
Yes, the US is pushing for peace talks and peace talks are happening between Ukrainians and Russians. With no results. What else can the USA do to end this war now?
 

MadMike

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the us should be pushing for peace talks. not crippling russian economy which does barely anything to end this war.
No they shouldn’t. They should be helping Ukraine in the way Ukraine wants to be helped, which is what they are currently doing.
 

MadMike

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biden is gambling on a regime change that could never happen or take years. both of which will only lead to more innocent deaths and a longer war.
The best way for less innocent deaths is for Russians to simply withdraw from Ukraine. The onus is on them, not the US. Why would we pressure Ukrainians to settle for an upalatable peace that dismembers their country and leaves people under Russian yoke? Putting peace above liberty is a fool’s errand.
 

TMDaines

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I’m currently reading Anne Applebaum’s Red Famine and the Soviets did the exact same thing to Ukrainians during the period of dekulakisation. They’d strip them of absolutely everything.

 

RedDevilQuebecois

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Speaking of books that touch the topic of dekulakisation, Hergé already ripped the Soviet Union a new one by depicting that part when he wrote and drew Tintin in the Land of the Soviets all the way back in 1930.
 

Pintu

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Not true, I'm afraid. For example, in Greece the Communist Party gets about 5%. This is about constant since the 1990s. There are many stalinists in this party. They have some MEPs, they are usually against everything that says "West".
I don't know the Greek Communists. Apparently, they are on their own in the EP. When I say the Left I mean this group here ( GUE/NGL). The only party from Greece in this group is Syriza. Not saying they are good, but it is still somewhat "normal" politicians that are representing these parties (I don't like them, Most are against NATO and against the integrated Union, they want less EU). Apparently, that Irish nutter is totally accepted in GUE/NGL through her Irish party called I4C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_in_the_European_Parliament_–_GUE/NGL
 

GlastonSpur

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The BBC reports:

"Approximately 20% of Russian troops confirmed to have died in Ukraine are officers, according to a new study from the BBC's Russian service.

The data shows that of 1,083 losses the BBC has been able to verify, 217 have been of officers, ranging in rank from junior lieutenant to general.

The trend is consistent with a previous BBC analysis of 557 casualties conducted in late March, which found 19.6% were officers.

The high number of officers reported dead, however, is likely due to the fact their bodies are recovered and sent home on a priority basis and are more likely to be announced publicly.

The data also shows a disproportionate number of confirmed Russian casualties - 15% - are members of Russia's VDV, or airborne forces.

Russian airborne units - considered among the most elite in the Russian military - have been reportedly committed to some of the heaviest fighting of the war so far, including at Hostomel near Kyiv and in the south"
 

Pintu

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In Belgium, the Federal Government is opposing the 10 EU countries' call on Russian-gas. Not because they are against it. But because the opposition party N-VA, which leads the regional government in Flanders is blocking it. And in reality the N-VA is only opposing this to sabotage the Federal government. (N-VA is like the SNP of Belgium, indy this indy that, only far more to the right than SNP, and far more nonesense populism)

édit: missing words
 
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Stactix

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biden is gambling on a regime change that could never happen or take years. both of which will only lead to more innocent deaths and a longer war.
What would your solution be?
Peace talks aren't going to work unless Putin and his cronies are ousted. How can you have peace talks with a country commiting needless genocide, not just commited by those most blood thirsty but encouraged by those at the top. When even Putin openly is saying Ukraine shouldn't exist, peace is out the window.
If Russia withdraw's and Ukraine pushes into Russia, that's a completely different story and one I'd expect the US to push for peace.

Not when Ukraine are fighting for freedom and peace with Russia's terms would be rewarding evil giving them full incentive to do this with other countries and more of Ukraine in the future.
 

VorZakone

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Would Western intel be able to verify whether chemical weapons were used in Mariupol?
 

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
What would your solution be?
Peace talks aren't going to work unless Putin and his cronies are ousted. How can you have peace talks with a country commiting needless genocide, not just commited by those most blood thirsty but encouraged by those at the top. When even Putin openly is saying Ukraine shouldn't exist, peace is out the window.
If Russia withdraw's and Ukraine pushes into Russia, that's a completely different story and one I'd expect the US to push for peace.

Not when Ukraine are fighting for freedom and peace with Russia's terms would be rewarding evil giving them full incentive to do this with other countries and more of Ukraine in the future.
gambling on regime change as a strategy is stupid. because it isn’t a sure shot and the guy replacing putin won’t be a peace loving leader. it could also mess things up more and push the country further into despair.
 

onemanarmy

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In Belgium, the Federal Government is opposing the EU's call on Russian-gas. Not because they are against it. But because the opposition party N-VA, which leads the regional government in Flanders is blocking it. And in reality the N-VA is only opposing this to sabotage the Federal government. (N-VA is like the SNP of Belgium, indy this indy that, only far more to the right than SNP, and far more nonesense populism)
Where did you get this info? From the article? Because it doesn't say any of what you are claiming. I'm far from a N-VA fan; but that's just not true.
 

TwoSheds

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gambling on regime change as a strategy is stupid. because it isn’t a sure shot and the guy replacing putin won’t be a peace loving leader. it could also mess things up more and push the country further into despair.
Worrying about what might happen when we already know exactly what is happening is stupid. You should probably stop reading whatever Russian fan pages you've been on.
 

WI_Red

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we already know what happens when we topple one dictator with no strategy in place. iraq is a good example.
So then what is your solution? You say the US should push for peace talks and I do not disagree with the idea that everyone should hope for an end to war and death. But to what end? What should Ukraine be willing to concede?
 

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
So then what is your solution? You say the US should push for peace talks and I do not disagree with the idea that everyone should hope for an end to war and death. But to what end? What should Ukraine be willing to concede?
how about we start with not repeating the same mistakes? that is a good policy start. unfortunately, we see nothing of that. and history keeps repeating itself.
 

TwoSheds

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how about we start with not repeating the same mistakes? that is a good policy start. unfortunately, we see nothing of that. and history keeps repeating itself.
Do you not understand how vastly different the situations are though? Like, really? For one, the dictator in this case isn't just minding his own business oppressing his own people, and the illegal war wasn't started by the democracy. For another nobody is sending any troops into Russia, except perhaps if they're shooting at Ukrainian territory. It will have to be an internal revolution if he's to be toppled.
 

Pintu

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Where did you get this info? From the article? Because it doesn't say any of what you are claiming. I'm far from a N-VA fan; but that's just not true.
This and the other article linked there.

https://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20220407_96329988

It says somewhere that it’s because of the 460€ « increase » that they are blocking the federal government intent to join the 10 EU countries letter.

If I got it wrong. What is the right info. Is Belgium going to join the EU-10 group?

Edit: my initial post was partially misleading with a missing word.
 

WI_Red

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how about we start with not repeating the same mistakes? that is a good policy start. unfortunately, we see nothing of that. and history keeps repeating itself.
That's not what I asked. You say Ukraine should sue for peace,, so what should they concede for that peace?
 

Organic Potatoes

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how about we start with not repeating the same mistakes? that is a good policy start. unfortunately, we see nothing of that. and history keeps repeating itself.
The US is not omnipotent; we cannot decide for the Ukrainians whether they should keep fighting and dying or give Russia whatever they want.

Blinken showing up for peace talks does not automatically make a regime change their mind on genocide. Our other options are an even larger war or leaving Ukraine hanging out to dry without weapons or aid...not peace talks.
 

entropy

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Where's my arc, Paulie?
Do you not understand how vastly different the situations are though? Like, really? For one, the dictator in this case isn't just minding his own business oppressing his own people, and the illegal war wasn't started by the democracy. For another nobody is sending any troops into Russia, except perhaps if they're shooting at Ukrainian territory. It will have to be an internal revolution if he's to be toppled.
and that could take forever or it could never happen. and in the meantime, more innocent people will get killed.
 

TwoSheds

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and that could take forever or it could never happen. and in the meantime, more innocent people will get killed.
But that's going to be entirely the mutual choice of the Russians and Ukrainians. So absolutely nothing like Iraq in any way.

If you want to talk about history the parallels here are much more like with Hitler or perhaps even Napoleon. Appeasing them will get you absolutely nowhere. Giving up Ukrainian territory is appeasement.
 

VorZakone

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and that could take forever or it could never happen. and in the meantime, more innocent people will get killed.
So what should Ukraine concede in peace talks that they're not already conceding? They've already said (if I recall correctly) they're willing to accept pre-invasion borders and neutrality.
 

DanH

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how about we start with not repeating the same mistakes? that is a good policy start. unfortunately, we see nothing of that. and history keeps repeating itself.

Appeasement has a brilliant historical reputation for successfully bringing about peace.