Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[Foxbatt]

He has lost Greenwood, Martial and Cavani. Rashford has been off for a long time. DVB didn't want to stay and wanted out. So did Martial. Varane is injured most of the time and then Fred and McTominay got injured. Pogba and Lingard wants to go.
I would say that if we have options up front we would have done better but Arsenal took the pain and got rid of players and it is much better for them. Ralf is doing what he does best. And if we listen to him and get rid of the bad apples we are going to be much better in the future.

 

[led_scholes]

Bookies and models like below:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/premier-league/
https://talksport.com/football/1004...r-odds-man-united-arsenal-tottenham-west-ham/

Well, it's not like they had us as clear favorites. I m sure they hadn't factor also us losing one key player, while they probably had factor that we are going to follow a similar path us before: buy a new player, like we did with Mata, Sanchez, Bruno etc

 

[Berbaclass]

And what about the results?

Out of the cups, out of the Top 4, sliding down the table amidst a pile of embarrassing performances, and squad morale at an all-time low. He’s been a shambles from start to finish and shown no interest in trying to lay foundations for the next manager. But yeah, he has the insight and courage to blame it all on the players and expertly recommend that we buy a new squad. If he really was here to honestly assess the squad, then he would keep his mouth shut in the press and work with the board behind the scenes. But no, he’s more interested in pointing fingers as publicly as possible. It’s straight from the book of Mourinho, except he has this ambiguous ‘consultant’ label to buy over the gullible.

We are statistically better mate. Deal with it. Rangnick has absolutely improved the team. How much is debatable but it’s clearly there in the numbers.

 

[Zen86]

We are statistically better mate. Deal with it. Rangnick has absolutely improved the team. How much is debatable but it’s clearly there in the numbers.

You’re deluded if you think we’re better in any way, shape or form.

 

[charlenefan]

You’re deluded if you think we’re better in any way, shape or form.

Agreed

I couldn't give a shit what the xGD, xGA xGS or xABC says, too many of his supporters are clinging onto the smallest of arguments to battle his case

Look at the league table when he took over vs now and try and argue he's improved things

 

[Zen86]

Agreed

I couldn't give a shit what the xGD, xGA xGS or xABC says, too many of his supporters are clinging onto the smallest of arguments to battle his case

Look at the league table when he took over vs now and try and argue he's improved things

It’s baffling. Either these people don’t actually follow the club and what’s been happening, or they’re just a bit stupid.

 

[The United]

Then they Glazers took a massive risk not signing anyone. A risk that has not paid off. Someone should ask Ralf if he recommended signing anyone in January.

As I said, it was a risk they took with Ralf and didn't play out as they would want it to. From their point of view, the squad was heavily invested the summer before and they probably hoped that someone with experience like Ralf was able to guide them to the top 4 without spending until the summer.

 

[The United]

How much do we get for getting into the top 4? Probably not as much money as it would have cost to make decent signings in January.

The simple question is if you would want your club to be in a position to compete for the biggest prizes even while it has to go through another rebuilding process.

The answer should always be yes. About spending, see the post above. It makes sense that they would wait for the new manager to spend the money in the summer and we probably don't even have or want to spend much in the summer anyway.

 

[charlenefan]

It’s baffling. Either these people don’t actually follow the club and what’s been happening, or they’re just a bit stupid.

I think they just refuse to concede that they were wrong about their saviour

 

[VP89]

Did you think that Ralf would do a better job when he was appointed then Ole had been doing up until that point? Or did you feel he had no chance at all?

For example


I thought you could go further than 4th under Rangnick. you had a good run of fixtures coming up, and that there would be a few surprises for some teams over the winter periods. I didnt think you would be in the title conversation but you could touch 3rd or even 2nd at best.

I think if the players were buying into his philosophy there is little doubt we would go 4th or beyond.

The problem in my eyes is the squad have been used to a lack of coaching and very much a free pass in their work-rate under Ole. That's why even when he tried to get them to press high they looked even worse, almost as though they were revoluting against the idea - and thats when we saw such big thrashings. This set of players looked most comfortable in a set deep and counter approach because the underdog mentality suited them.

If you take either Shalke side that Ralf managed, RB Leipzig, Hoffenheim and simply look at their approach to the games together with how Ralf says he wants to set up his team, it is very evident that this United set of players are not listening to the instructions. Then one can say "you aren't on the training ground, what do you know etc." but it also correlates with reporters who do have established links with the trainings or the dressing room etc. and these reporters are also saying that they don't listen to Ralf. And yet, we will have some imbecile posts just looking at resutls and lazily concluding Ralf is a poor manager or some fraud, which makes me laugh really.

In this instance the problem is beyond the manager, even if he loses every game we can't just point to him and say "blargh he's shite, can't even get his team to run". Rather the question is why are they ignoring him and what do other managers need to do differently to get them to listen? They didn't like the stern approach from Jose and spat him out. They spat out Ole's vibes and hi5s and these are permanent managers who were there to build something. A caretaker for 6 months has feck all chance in that regard, He has no backroom (he couldn't get any of his first choices to leave clubs and come for 6 months to United, hence only could choose free agents), he has no transfer budget and he has no influence to tell players "hey I'm here for the long term as manager, buy into my way and you'll get used to it". Especially considering we have good 10 of these players from the matchday squad leaving the door next season.

If anything the contract situation means the players are less likely to be bothered, not just because they have no vested interest in securing 4th, but more because they would rather not risk a serious injury from excessive work and harm a lucrative deal with their next clubs as a free agent. A lot of people are ignoring this, and I do think its a huge factor in the lack of effort in a fair few players who know they're on their way out. Lingard, Pogba, Matic, Cavani aren't immune to that for example. Of course then you have the likes of Telles who speaks about returning to Porto one day, Baily who feels hard done by for more gametime promises by Ole (not a Ralf issue, just Ole being incompetent), etc etc. This is more than enough to absolutely destroy any dressing room before we consider any interim performance from Ralf or hypothetically from whomever else was in the mix (Blanc / Fonseca or whoever).

 

[Zen86]

I think they just refuse to concede that they were wrong about their saviour

The master tactician who’s shown anything but.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Not everyone it seems who understands the purpose of Rangnick’s appointment, which in my view comes down to a lack of education, short-termism and an odd affinity to Ole. Unfortunately some on here are more concerned about a top 4 trophy to see the bigger picture.

I'm going to go back to this post because this smug condescension really got on my nerves.

When Rangnick was appointed interim manager, his statement read:

I am excited to be joining Manchester United and focused on making this a successful season for the club. The squad is full of talent and has a great balance of youth and experience. All my efforts for the next six months will be on helping these players fulfil their potential, both individually and, most importantly, as a team.

Shortly afterwards, Rangnick was asked directly how he would define a "successful" season for Manchester United. His answer:

For me, success can only be achieved with development, developing the team. This is the result of development. If we can develop the team in the next six months in a way I can see them play, and I think quite a few things could be seen on Saturday. It showed how the team could defend if they work together as a team, and obviously there is still space for improvement, not everything has been perfect, we can improve in possession, create more chances, be more flexible on the ball, play more vertical on the ball. [...]

I’m fully aware that in order to be, at the end successful means hopefully playing Champions League football next season, being as successful as we can be in the Champions League and in the FA Cup. We didn’t get an easy draw against Aston Villa, it’s one of three direct Premier League duels in the FA Cup. There were a few easier draws possible, but in the end it’s like another Premier League game. This is exactly how we will approach this game.

The 'short-termism' and 'top 4 trophy' you are decrying is literally what he said his job was.
What is the argument here, that he's a liar? That the club are gaslighting the fanbase for some unclear reason?

In November the Independent reported this:

Some figures have even floated the idea of bringing in the former RB Leipzig manager Ralf Rangnick as an interim, and he does already have a relationship with the Old Trafford hierarchy. The German would be interested in any such role, but The Independent has been told that one issue is that he would also want some kind of football position afterwards.

If that is true it means the club were thinking of him primarily as manager, not in another role.
Later, in March, Sky Sports reported this:

United's hierarchy took the decision to put strategic planning on hold to allow Rangnick full focus on trying to salvage the season through coaching.
[...] Rangnick has done what has been asked of him, which is to concentrate on coaching.

So just like he said when he was appointed, his primarily responsibility is to coach the team this season, not any long-term planning. The same article claims, about his future role:

United's Champions League exit allows more time for some forward planning, but the notion Rangnick could operate as a loose version of a sporting director, helping John Murtough and Darren Fletcher knit a solid strategy behind the scenes, has been labelled "hugely unlikely."

Even if Rangnick has 'long-term responsibilities' (via a consultancy that hasn't actually begun), the role itself appears to be limited.
Rangnick himself said a few days ago:

We have an agreement on that role. But it’s not a question about what’s written on paper or what’s agreed upon, it’s about what will happen in everyday life and everyday business. This is the question and it’s also important how does Erik see that. Does he like to speak with someone like myself? Does he want to work together?

To recap: he was initially hired as interim manager, to focus on this season. His future role as consultant is something he apparently pushed for. The role is undefined. It is not clear that he will even be a consultant. The club have told him to focus on salvaging this season.

But anyone who believes that, based on all public statements, we should judge him on what he's doing now, is "uneducated."

 

[Son]

I like Ralf 100% the man is doing what is correct for the club at this moment in time.

He’s stuck to his plan of playing higher up the pitch win, lose or draw and he needed to do it. Makes it far easier for the next manager coming in to understand the squad.

Tbf to the guy our actual good players are playing alright but we keep conceding awfully basic goals. Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane (when he’s fit), De Gea, Fred. Shaw when he comes back we’ll see… are all fine in my eyes.

Bruno hasn’t been great but I’ll give him a chance. Those are the types of players the rest of the squad needs to be of similar qualities.

Sadly the rest of the squad (about 15 players) are bottom half quality when it comes to actually playing on the front foot.

 

[Berbaclass]

You’re deluded if you think we’re better in any way, shape or form.

Grow up

 

[DSG]

Anyone who's blaming the manager after a shitshow of a season is delusional, which you appear to be.

Even if we appoint you as manager our performance should be much better, its not like were only losing games because the opposition manager had a tactical advantage or made the right subs at the right time. Lets face reality, the players have downtooled and no its not the responsibility of the manager to coddle downtooling players and they should be rightly marked to be sold the next transfer window.

Let’s follow that line of logic.

You’re saying the players are intentionally losing because…. Why? They get bonuses for making the CL there sport.

Let’s even assume that the players are playing poorly on purpose because they hate Ralf…. Well isn’t that just a tiny bit on Ralf? His job is literally to improve the team performances.

Anyone who knows football can see that the team is incredibly disorganized. Conceding early goals, lack of patterns of play when attacking. The team Rangnick picked v Liverpool was comical. What on earth possessed him to put Dalot out of position on the left, against maybe the world’s best RW in Salah? Dalot is our worst 1v1 defender, hell, our worst defender period.

He’s the worst United manager by results since Dave Sexton, 42 years ago. In a 20 year management career, he’s won a single measly German cup with a squad that he took over in March of that year and was already in the final. They beat a Bundesliga 2 team to win it….

The Ralf fan boys are blindly thinking that Ralf is there to “find the poison” in the squad, root it out. Well, I suppose we are going to need 10 transfer windows and £5b, because every single player has played shite since he arrived. You think the board is delighted he’s done this? The players are assets, and every weekend, the players look worse and worse, meaning trying to sell them at a decent price will be incredibly difficult.

Now, Ralf can see his career circling the drain, and instead of taking just a tiny bit of responsibility, he’s shoveling all of the blame on the players. No decently sized club will hire this guy moving forward.

Now, don’t get me wrong, the players and the board bear some responsibility for this mess, for sure. But to absolve Ralf of any blame for this shitshow is myopic to say the least.

 

[Son]

For all the talk about Rangnick's "great honesty", when he signed for United he said "the squad is full of talent and has a great balance of youth and experience." Was he lying, talking out of his ass, or letting the club just put out whatever in his name?

He’s not saying that any longer though is he? He might have been correct at first too. The squad actually had/has some of each of those… Just not enough sadly.

The youth thing was probs before Greenwood did what he did and nobody could have imagined Rashford’s struggles at first. Bizarre to say the least. Sancho most managers would want in any squad.

Ronaldo’s experience / talent has won us games almost single handedly too.

 

[Zen86]

Grow up

Grow up? For stating how terrible we have been under Ralf? Truth hurts.

 

[Berbaclass]

Grow up? For stating how terrible we have been under Ralf? Truth hurts.

We’ll you’re the one that’s wrong mate I’m sorry to inform you. The stats back my opinion up. Yours is an opinion and only that.

 

[L1nk]

Let’s follow that line of logic.

You’re saying the players are intentionally losing because…. Why? They get bonuses for making the CL there sport.

Let’s even assume that the players are playing poorly on purpose because they hate Ralf…. Well isn’t that just a tiny bit on Ralf? His job is literally to improve the team performances.

Anyone who knows football can see that the team is incredibly disorganized. Conceding early goals, lack of patterns of play when attacking. The team Rangnick picked v Liverpool was comical. What on earth possessed him to put Dalot out of position on the left, against maybe the world’s best RW in Salah? Dalot is our worst 1v1 defender, hell, our worst defender period.

He’s the worst United manager by results since Dave Sexton, 42 years ago. In a 20 year management career, he’s won a single measly German cup with a squad that he took over in March of that year and was already in the final. They beat a Bundesliga 2 team to win it….

The Ralf fan boys are blindly thinking that Ralf is there to “find the poison” in the squad, root it out. Well, I suppose we are going to need 10 transfer windows and £5b, because every single player has played shite since he arrived. You think the board is delighted he’s done this? The players are assets, and every weekend, the players look worse and worse, meaning trying to sell them at a decent price will be incredibly difficult.

Now, Ralf can see his career circling the drain, and instead of taking just a tiny bit of responsibility, he’s shoveling all of the blame on the players. No decently sized club will hire this guy moving forward.

Now, don’t get me wrong, the players and the board bear some responsibility for this mess, for sure. But to absolve Ralf of any blame for this shitshow is myopic to say the least.

Forget the manager, the tactics etc. Look at alot of the players' effort, they can't even be bothered, that's just on a basic fundamental level before you get the manager involved, they cannot be bothered to even try their hardest on the pitch. You say that every player has played shit since he arrived, well, yes? They were playing complete shit before he arrived that's why the previous guy was sacked and we brought him in, in which case for a little bit after he came in there was improvement whether you see it or not. Now they've reverted back to basically what got Ole fired, so what Ralf managed to get them to play a bit better after Ole was sacked then told them to play as shit as possible for the last couple of months of the season? Could he have done better since he's been here? Yes of course, nobody should deny that, but a lot of these players clearly dgaf.

 

[charlenefan]

We’ll you’re the one that’s wrong mate I’m sorry to inform you. The stats back my opinion up. Yours is an opinion and only that.

Stats may back up your opinion but the facts are RR has the lowest win % of any of our managers post Fergie And that we're further away from the top 4 than when he joined. Those aren't stats, those aren't opinions they're facts

 

[DSG]

Out xG for and against have improved.

Sorry there fella. I know it’s trendy to quote xG and makes you feel badass, but they don’t hand out trophies based on xG. They don’t give out CL spots either.

Neither the eye test nor the results have shown that Ralf has improved the team. His 40% win percentage is the worst since Dave Sexton, 42 years ago…

 

[Zen86]

We’ll you’re the one that’s wrong mate I’m sorry to inform you. The stats back my opinion up. Yours is an opinion and only that.

You’ve not offered any argument whatsoever as to why you think we’ve improved and progressed. Just hissyfits.

 

[charlenefan]

Sorry there fella. I know it’s trendy to quote xG and makes you feel badass, but they don’t hand out trophies based on xG. They don’t give out CL spots either.

Neither the eye test nor the results have shown that Ralf has improved the team. His 40% win percentage is the worst since Dave Sexton, 42 years ago…

Bang on

 

[Berbaclass]

Stats may back up your opinion but the facts are RR has the lowest win % of any of our managers post Fergie And that we're further away from the top 4 than when he joined. Those aren't stats, those aren't opinions they're facts

From such a small sample size.

 

[horsechoker]

From such a small sample size.

Some weird arguments get put up against Ralf when there are so many pertinent ones.

The "even Moyes was better" argument is weird because Moyes took over a title winning side and took it out of European football.

 

[VP89]

Agreed

I couldn't give a shit what the xGD, xGA xGS or xABC says, too many of his supporters are clinging onto the smallest of arguments to battle his case

Look at the league table when he took over vs now and try and argue he's improved things

These type of silly posts are my favourite

" I dont give a shit about the XG, I only care about the league table" - Paul Merson esque analsyis of the game.

 

[DSG]

Forget the manager, the tactics etc. Look at alot of the players' effort, they can't even be bothered, that's just on a basic fundamental level before you get the manager involved, they cannot be bothered to even try their hardest on the pitch. You say that every player has played shit since he arrived, well, yes? They were playing complete shit before he arrived that's why the previous guy was sacked and we brought him in, in which case for a little bit after he came in there was improvement whether you see it or not. Now they've reverted back to basically what got Ole fired, so what Ralf managed to get them to play a bit better after Ole was sacked then told them to play as shit as possible for the last couple of months of the season? Could he have done better since he's been here? Yes of course, nobody should deny that, but a lot of these players clearly dgaf.

Question: Intellectually, is it possible to entertain the concept that Ralf can be bad AND the players can be bad too? Is that too difficult to process?

‘The players were performing poorly, Ralf has made them worse. Both are accountable for this disaster.

 

[FattyFooty]

From such a small sample size.

Imagine how ut would look if RR didnt have Ronaldo. This football is awful. Worst we ever seen.

 

[Moriarty]

This is one of the most daft takes I’ve seen on it tbh. Ralf was brought in to implement the processes and change the environment that Murtough has inherited from Woodward.

Barney isn't always truly objective. The club has more leaks than the Old Trafford roof and it's a feeding frenzy for sports hacks.

 

[Berbaclass]

You’ve not offered any argument whatsoever as to why you think we’ve improved and progressed. Just hissyfits.

What hissyfits?

I stated that our xG for has improved. And our xG against. Suggesting we are more structured, something which Klopp commented on before the match.

If you want actual details then fair enough. Our xG for under Ole v Ralf this season is 1.42 v 1.52 in favour of Ragnick. The xG against is 1.63 v 1.14, again in favour of Ragnick. Improvement in both areas.

 

[Samid]

Imagine how ut would look if RR didnt have Ronaldo. This football is awful. Worst we ever seen.

Only two games he has won in the past 64 days were because Ronaldo bailed him out. Without Ronaldo's individual brilliance Ralf's win % would probably be below 30.

 

[Berbaclass]

Imagine how ut would look if RR didnt have Ronaldo. This football is awful. Worst we ever seen.

Imagine how it would look if Ragnick didn’t come in mid season and not being allowed to get any players despite losing 3 first team quality players.

 

[m1tch]

It is so weird to hear people say RR has improved us based on xG stats as opposed to actual results, is this some sort of FIFA generation coming through in football fanbases? Big Sam had his prozone back in his Bolton days I suppose, but no one quoted things from it over actual results. I suppose Liverpool fans had the woodwork stats trophy a few years back.

Anyway, RR has been a disaster as a manager for us, but his value might be in providing a non-managerial service going forward that greatly benefits from the first hand experience. That said I can't imagine the board are happy that top 4 has been thrown away again. Not forgetting we don't even known if EtH wants him involved at all at the club next season, he might not want the guy the squad hates because he's somehow gotta work with some of them going forward. Let's hope RR has only pissed off the players that are leaving.

 

[charlenefan]

From such a small sample size.

Giggs' stint was a small sample size
Carrick's stint was a small sample size

By the time the season is over RR will have been in charge of 24 games and 63% of the league games this season. That's not a small sample at all. It's only 10 less games than David Moyes was in charge for

 

[stevoc]

For all the talk about Rangnick's "great honesty", when he signed for United he said "the squad is full of talent and has a great balance of youth and experience." Was he lying, talking out of his ass, or letting the club just put out whatever in his name?

I believe he said similar in one of his first press conferences. But as the season's went on he's changed his tune.

 

[Berbaclass]

Some weird arguments get put up against Ralf when there are so many pertinent ones.

The "even Moyes was better" argument is weird because Moyes took over a title winning side and took it out of European football.

Exactly. Had a full pre season too to work with the players.

 

[Berbaclass]

Giggs' stint was a small sample size
Carrick's stint was a small sample size

By the time the season is over RR will have been in charge of 24 games and 63% of the league games this season. That's not a small sample at all. It's only 10 less games than David Moyes was in charge for

Moyes inherited a title winning team and was given money to buy players.

 

[Moriarty]

Exactly. Had a full pre season too to work with the players.

As I recall, Moyes didn't start until July, or is my memory faulty?

 

[charlenefan]

These type of silly posts are my favourite

" I dont give a shit about the XG, I only care about the league table" - Paul Merson esque analsyis of the game.

You are the authority on silly posts the amount of shit you've posted in this thread

I'm not surprised your mind takes more solace in xG over the facts

 

[jackal&hyde]

I like Ralf 100% the man is doing what is correct for the club at this moment in time.

He’s stuck to his plan of playing higher up the pitch win, lose or draw and he needed to do it. Makes it far easier for the next manager coming in to understand the squad.

Tbf to the guy our actual good players are playing alright but we keep conceding awfully basic goals. Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane (when he’s fit), De Gea, Fred. Shaw when he comes back we’ll see… are all fine in my eyes.

Bruno hasn’t been great but I’ll give him a chance. Those are the types of players the rest of the squad needs to be of similar qualities.

Sadly the rest of the squad (about 15 players) are bottom half quality when it comes to actually playing on the front foot.

I agree. It's easy to say that another manager would have gotten more, and that is probably true IMO, but the work done now by RR should serve the next manager better by already having the trial period of knowing full well what these players can and can not do.

I've stated that I think should we have kept Ole we would have gotten more points and maybe top 4, but it would have been papering over the cracks. Going through the pain of sticking to a game plan like we did with RR, will hopefully serve ETH to have a much better idea about what needs to be done. Short term pain for long term gain in a sense.