Pau Torres

andersj said:
I also think the way EtH wants to play, he would hugely appreciate adding someone as good on the ball as Pau Torres. At Ajax it is the defenders who find attackers in the final third. Having someone like Blind really help their transition from defence to attack.
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Yep. With ETH's arrival we essentially shift more towards a City-style defence, which means our needs shift more towards City-style defenders, with greater emphasis on ability on the ball.

I would imagine that would be the case with any CB we go for this summer though. Someone like Timber would obviously be similarly suited to what we're trying to do as would others. It doesn't have to be Pau Torres.

Though the other factor different from last summer is who we're replacing. Last time we were looking for someone to play alongside Maguire, who despite being right-footed typically plays as a LCB, so a natural RCB would have been fine. This time though we're looking for someone who can actually play instead of Maguire, so a left-footed LCB is more of a fit for our needs this time around. And that's more specific.
 
He will work only if you have a physically imposing CB with him . Means, we have to pair Maguire and him. Not a bad pairing but will be found out in a high line . ETH could goto Timber and play Torres, Maguire and Timber in a 3 man defence
 
sullydnl said:
Yep. With ETH's arrival we essentially shift more towards a City-style defence, which means our needs shift more towards City-style defenders, with greater emphasis on ability on the ball.

I would imagine that would be the case with any CB we go for this summer though. Someone like Timber would obviously be similarly suited to what we're trying to do as would others. It doesn't have to be Pau Torres.

Though the other factor different from last summer is who we're replacing. Last time we were looking for someone to play alongside Maguire, who despite being right-footed typically plays as a LCB, so a natural RCB would have been fine. This time though we're looking for someone who can actually play instead of Maguire, so a left-footed LCB is more of a fit for our needs this time around. And that's more specific.
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Good point. I also think it will be a bit of a game changer for us. Why waste time letting the ball move through midfield if you can pass it directly to the attackers in the final third from the defender? It will improve how quick we transition. It would be true regardless of our midfield, even more so with our midfield.

In the CL, Gravenberch and Alvarez on average progressed the ball 160 yards per 90 min through passing. Blind and Martinez were at 570 yrds and 544 yrds. Timber 429 yards
 
andersj said:
I also think the way EtH wants to play, he would hugely appreciate adding someone as good on the ball as Pau Torres. At Ajax it is the defenders who find attackers in the final third. Having someone like Blind really help their transition from defence to attack.
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Agreed. Joško Gvardiol is the one, though. Even better on the ball than Pau Torres, but also a really aggressive defender who, unlike Torres, would likely thrive in a high line in a pressing system.
 
Too passive from what I've seen, and very poor in the air for someone his height. I think he'd do well in a dominant city side but we dont have that luxury and need a much more proactive defender in there.

Would be a waste of money in my opinion.
 
andersj said:
Good point. I also think it will be a bit of a game changer for us. Why waste time letting the ball move through midfield if you can pass it directly to the attackers in the final third from the defender? It will improve how quick we transition. It would be true regardless of our midfield, even more so with our midfield.

In the CL, Gravenberch and Alvarez on average progressed the ball 160 yards per 90 min through passing. Blind and Martinez were at 570 yrds and 544 yrds. Timber 429 yards
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Similar to how Liverpool play. The back 4 do the passing and the creating - the midfield are there to do the pressing and win the ball back.

The stats also back this up - the four Liverpool players with the highest passes per game this season are Van Dijk, Matip, Robertson and Alexander-Arnold, while the two players who have created the most chances are Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. Top 3 for tackles are Keita, Thiago and Fabinho.
 
OleGunnar20 said:
Too passive from what I've seen, and very poor in the air for someone his height. I think he'd do well in a dominant city side but we dont have that luxury and need a much more proactive defender in there.

Would be a waste of money in my opinion.
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The sort of defenders who would do well in a dominant City defence are exactly what we need, as that's the most analogous defence to what ours will be under ETH.

Obviously it will likely mean rough patches and growing pains as we transition in that direction but that's inevitable anyway, as it was in the first season when Pep took over at City. You still buy for the team you're trying to become though, not the team you are.

Whether Torres is the best option who fits that style of play, I'm not sure. I do like the bits I've seen of Gvardiol too but I've seen less of him. I like Timber as well but if you're concerned about aerial ability then a 5ft 10 CB would raise questions too.

Though given we already have the tallest squad in the league and win a bigger percentage of our aerial battles than anyone else, aerial ability is the least of my concerns with our team.
 
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OleGunnar20 said:
Too passive from what I've seen, and very poor in the air for someone his height. I think he'd do well in a dominant city side but we dont have that luxury and need a much more proactive defender in there.

Would be a waste of money in my opinion.
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I think the league as a whole has changed to more focus on attack. Other than some dinosaurs like Simeone, even big games are no longer cagey with a goal or two max. If I were to invest, I'd look to see if he completes the team and helps us play on the front foot, one way or another, rather than expect a stopper in the mold of a Vidic. Center backs are not like that anymore in this era.
 
sullydnl said:
The Lindelof comparison is a very United-centric one. The player he more regularly gets compared to is Laporte.

I would assume if City are interested in him then one of Laporte or Stones would be moving on? I remember Laporte being linked with a move away last summer but I thought that talk had died down since. He's only 27 so not like he needs replacing.
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Except Laporte is very good in the air so that comparison doesn’t work for me
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I think the league as a whole has changed to more focus on attack. Other than some dinosaurs like Simeone, even big games are no longer cagey with a goal or two max. If I were to invest, I'd look to see if he completes the team and helps us play on the front foot, one way or another, rather than expect a stopper in the mold of a Vidic. Center backs are not like that anymore in this era.
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There’s still a need to not be dominated by the CFs thinking they will get an easy game as we sometimes see with Lindelof. Especially in the PL.
 
sullydnl said:
The sort of defenders who would do well in a dominant City defence are exactly what we need, as that's the most analagous defence to what ours will be under ETH.

Obviously it will likely mean rough patches and growing pains as we transition in that direction but that's inevitable anyway, as it was in the first season when Pep took over at City. You still buy for the team you're trying to become though, not the team you are.

Whether Torres is the best option who fits that style of play, I'm not sure. I do like the bits I've seen of Gvardiol too but I've seen less of him. I like Timber as well but if you're concerned about aerial ability then a 5ft 10 CB would raise questions too.

Though given we already have the tallest squad in the league and win a bigger percentage of our aerial battles than anyone else, aerial ability is the least of my concerns with our team.
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Fair points well made.

I do prefer what ive seen of Timber and Gvardiol (only highlights though) as they seem far more proactive as defenders, and I believe the stats back this up.

It's the issue I've always had with Lindelof - remember that stat which said he hadn't been dribbled past all season? Because he was too afraid to ever take a risk and put a foot in, of course, always backpeddling away from attackers until somebody else dealt with the issue.

He's way too passive to ever be more than mediocre backup. Torres strikes me as similar from my limited viewing of him.

From what I understand ETH's system requires confident, capable defenders in 1v1 situations due to the high-line & often high risk situations they end up in. Of course whoever we get needs to be capable enough to start attacks from deep, but surely defensive solidity always comes as a prerequisite for your centre-halves?

Who that player could be I don't know. Botman & Tapsoba both looked good to me last year but I've not watched much non United football this season.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I think the league as a whole has changed to more focus on attack. Other than some dinosaurs like Simeone, even big games are no longer cagey with a goal or two max. If I were to invest, I'd look to see if he completes the team and helps us play on the front foot, one way or another, rather than expect a stopper in the mold of a Vidic. Center backs are not like that anymore in this era.
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Perhaps. Call me old fashioned but I'd still view solid defensive attributes as a pre requisite for my centre-backs. Sure, you don't need to be Vidic these days (man what a player he was!), but you need to be a solid defender, along with confident on the ball.

A tough balance to strike for sure.
 
golden_blunder said:
There’s still a need to not be dominated by the CFs thinking they will get an easy game as we sometimes see with Lindelof. Especially in the PL.
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I think with ETH, the math has to be that if we a majority of the ball and work hard enough to win possession higher up the pitch, that means less situations where the center backs are isolated against opposing forwards. Sure, it might happen once or twice a game and we might concede one on the counter but eventually the story will be the 2 or 3 goals we score.
 
golden_blunder said:
Except Laporte is very good in the air so that comparison doesn’t work for me
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Torres has improved year-on-year in terms of aerial ability, with his percentage of aerial duels won going from 47.4% > 60.6% > 64.4% over the last three seasons. Improvement that was always likely to be possible as Torres developed given his size. With Laporte winning 68.1% this year, the gap has narrowed quite significantly.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Isn't he a little slow? Undoubtedly very good progressing the ball and offers a little more balance being left-footed, but for me the same type of issues you have with Maguire and Lindelof are there.

Maybe I've just not picked up on his speed or physicality as much, but I feel those are both potentially areas that could be exposed in the PL.
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He’s no slower than any of City’s CBs - in fact he’s quicker than Dias who would look like a total carthorse playing here. The areas we turn the ball over in (cough Bruno cough Pogba) and the way we press which has less coordination and speed than me on the dance floor. That’s largely why whatever CB we pick looks utterly fecking shite - we play passes in the wrong areas at the wrong times so are vulnerable to transition and off the ball we’re a total car crash in terms of physicality and intelligence. Torres is elite on the ball - he’d be great at City where the ball is in the opponents half 80% of the time but if we don’t fix what happens in front of him he’ll become a meme here.
 
Mickeza said:
He’s no slower than any of City’s CBs - in fact he’s quicker than Dias who would look like a total carthorse playing here. The areas we turn the ball over in (cough Bruno cough Pogba) and the way we press which has less coordination and speed than me on the dance floor. That’s largely why whatever CB we pick looks utterly fecking shite - we play passes in the wrong areas at the wrong times so are vulnerable to transition and off the ball we’re a total car crash in terms of physicality and intelligence. Torres is elite on the ball - he’d be great at City where the ball is in the opponents half 80% of the time but if we don’t fix what happens in front of him he’ll become a meme here.
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True - great points all round.
 
Mickeza said:
He’s no slower than any of City’s CBs - in fact he’s quicker than Dias who would look like a total carthorse playing here. The areas we turn the ball over in (cough Bruno cough Pogba) and the way we press which has less coordination and speed than me on the dance floor. That’s largely why whatever CB we pick looks utterly fecking shite - we play passes in the wrong areas at the wrong times so are vulnerable to transition and off the ball we’re a total car crash in terms of physicality and intelligence. Torres is elite on the ball - he’d be great at City where the ball is in the opponents half 80% of the time but if we don’t fix what happens in front of him he’ll become a meme here.
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Yep.

Tbh regardless of who we sign I suspect defence is where we'll see the teething problems at their worst next season. Between some of our defenders not being all that good in the first place, the inevitable mistakes that will come from playing aggresively out of defence and the likelihood of them being exposed in transitions as a result of malfunctions ahead of them....
 
This lad will be world class for years to come. We lamented not getting vvd or Dias, we better at least try and sign him up.

Looks like a real leader to me.
 
Classy player. Feeling he’ll end up at Chelsea unfortunately.
 
Easier to look good in that defensive side though
 
Looks really good on the ball, at least. In a heavy possession side where we’ll need no passengers, I can see him fitting in.
 
He looks very good in a side that goes out to sit deep and defend. What's he like in a higher line for Spain?
 
We make this mistake every year. Why would we buy a player who is used to playing with a team who plays in a deep line, knowing that ten Hag will be the complete opposite. That's not to say he wouldn't suit ten Hag's system, but it'd be a risk, right?

If we're getting a centre back, then we should be aiming to get someone who currently plays in a high line and is a front foot defender.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
We make this mistake every year. Why would we buy a player who is used to playing with a team who plays in a deep line, knowing that ten Hag will be the complete opposite. That's not to say he wouldn't suit ten Hag's system, but it'd be a risk, right?

If we're getting a centre back, then we should be aiming to get someone who currently plays in a high line and is a front foot defender.
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I agree.
Although I guess he plays like that for Spain
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
We make this mistake every year. Why would we buy a player who is used to playing with a team who plays in a deep line, knowing that ten Hag will be the complete opposite. That's not to say he wouldn't suit ten Hag's system, but it'd be a risk, right?

If we're getting a centre back, then we should be aiming to get someone who currently plays in a high line and is a front foot defender.
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Nah, limiting the teams you sign from to those who play similar football to yours would be a backwards approach. What you need to be able to do is accurately assess the players themselves and how their skillset will transfer to your team. It's difficult enough to recruit successfully without narrowing the pool of players you recruit from more than is neccessary.
 
Great jinx from all in this thread.
 
Get him and pair him with Lindelof. They would look so smooth with the ball. The defending on the other hand.
 
You can't judge him just on today. Better defenders have looked just as inept against this Liverpool forward line.
 
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