United also re-emerged at a time when English football had fallen badly off the pace due to the post-Heysel isolation. Much of the 90s was a steep learning curve. Pep does not have that excuse at City (not that I’m calling him a fraud).
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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That's a fair point I won't refute it.
Very impressive that we beat cryuff's barca in 1990 as they would go ona to win the European Cup the very next year.
City would have probably been in the CL final if they had signed a striker last summer ala Kane.
But their problem wasn't scoring goals, any team that scored 5 goals in a CL semis would be expected to be in the final.
Exactly, they just have rubbish defenders, and a goalkeeper that isn't a goalkeeper, or at least has been told to not act like one, but act like an outfield player.
You are not going to win a Champions League without a good defence and City just don't have a good defence.
Madrid are giving it a good go.
Agree with you though. City's backline is so heavily protected in the Prem. It's difficult to gauge how good or bad it is.
They have Stones, Zinchenko, Cancelo, and Ake, who are very poor at defending, plus a goalkeeper who wants to be anything but a goalkeeper, so it is no wonder they concede so many.
At least with Real, they have a goalkeeper who is first and foremost a goalkeeper, Courtois has no prevention of trying to be an outfield player, he is just a very good goalkeeper, compare that to Ederson, I know which goalkeeper I would prefer, and it isn't the one who is faffing about outside his box.
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Seems like they're starting a rebuild. Honestly their squad needed it. I think it's a pretty damn overrated one. People treat it as if they have top class players in every place but the reality is their forward line has been Jesus, Mahrez and Phoden while their backline consist of mostly average to decent players.
Liverpool have actually better players than them at this moment. Salah and Mane are just better than their entire forward line and same thing can be said about VVD, Robertson and Arnold.
City squad was great few years ago but it has run its course. They're probably going to spend 200m or something this summer.
Best defence in the Premier League, and only Liverpool come close.
The Ederson criticism is also strange when nobody can give concrete examples of recent goals he should've saved.
There is a difference between best defence and having the best defenders. City defend extremely well as a team and their defenders are rarely on their own, but when it happens against the very best teams it can happen what we saw yesterday. I'd take defenders like van Dijk or goalkeepers like Courtois ahead of City's players in a heartbeat.
Sack him would be good, but if Klopp wins the titles instead that do not help.
Walker is really good 1vs 1 though, but yeah the others can get exposed.
Right, probably no wonder they collapsed once he left the pitch
We should've been out of sight before Benzema scored in the first leg. Should have been 4-0 up.
Madrid were ridiculously clinical, scoring six goals from just ten shots on target.
City could only manage five from sixteen. If we were anywhere near as clinical as Liverpool we would be in the final and probably further ahead in the league too, as we wouldn't have as many dropped points vs Spurs or Southampton.
At the end of the day a forward line of Sterling (low on confidence from being messed around out of position), Mahrez (limited in how many chances he can score due to his one-footedness), Jesus (not the most clinical), Foden (Again, often out of position) and Grealish (who's not really a goalscorer at all).
If Liverpool win the quadruple it won't be the midfield, which is nothing special in terms of individual talent, nor the defence, which is great but no better than ours. It'll be because they have quality forwards who are all confident in front of goal and are allowed to consistently play in positions that suit them. We've got one genuinely great goalscorer who hasn't been great since we stopped playing with a striker two years ago. Everything we've achieved these two years has been in spite of deliberately giving ourselves an enormous disadvantage in a crucial position.
It'll sound like sour grapes but City win the tie if Walker is fit for the whole game, I'm sure of it. Especially the first leg, where Fernandinho cost us a really horrendous goal and almost all their attacks came down that side, including Benzema's first. Really unfortunate to lose him at the time we did.
Agree that missing walker for the first leg was a deciding factor in the tie. Said as much weeks ago
And agree that city badly outplayed us in the first leg and faffed about with their chances, while we were incredibly clinical with ours and lucky with the handball penalty
That said, pretty much every single xG model has the tie pretty much tied on aggregate
And agree that city badly outplayed us in the first leg and faffed about with their chances, while we were incredibly clinical with ours and lucky with the handball penalty
That said, pretty much every single xG model has the tie pretty much tied on aggregate
A penalty is 1xG, isn't it?
Should probably not give those away then.
you weren't actually that special. The Spain team put in one of the best international performances I'd seen and Tiki Taka was born. I don't even think Italy should have gotten past Spain and better tactics England would have beaten you. No coincidence you did not qualify for world cup. You suck
Not exactly, something about 0.7 or 0.8. Exactly 1 would mean that it is definitely a goal all the time, but penalties can still be missed or saved. The xG models include that.
Still a penalty is definitely about the best chance you can get
It probably is a little overrated, I think mainly because of the lack of striker.
But it's still very high quality and Pep isn't turning water into wine.
I don’t think anybody in the world right now has one of those all time great teams. They all have weaknesses.
But City, like us,only have themselves to blame if they are indeed underpowered.
They still spent a lot of money last season. They just didn't spend it very well and I'd say that's becoming an increasingly prominent feature.
They've gone from spending so well to it becoming a bit more hit and miss and it's starting to show.
They could have easily gone out in the quarter finals of Champs League to an average Athletico. The league they'll probably win again but ourselves, Chelsea and Arsenal have made it far too easy for them.
Another couple of players for a hundred million or so to rot on the bench like Grealish??
Spending money isn't the issue, it is Pep that is the issue, and his out of date tactics.
What's the new tactic Pep doesn't know about?
I am no tactical guru, I will leave that to others who think or belive that they are, but what he is doing right now, certainly in Europe isn't working.
It's absolutely not a new issue for Pep, and I don't even think it is a tactical problem, but something that was a problem for his whole time working as a manager.
His teams are designed to 100% control the match and dominate everything. He does this to an exceptional level and therefore his teams can pull it off in almost all games. Almost.
But for some reason they appear to be very weak when things happen to them that can't really be explained. It seems to make them nervous and they lack the edge, the steel, the mentality, whatever you want to call it, to just ignore this and keep on dominating. I'm absolutely not sure why this is, but it is obvious for several seasons at City and was a point for criticism while he managed Bayern, too.
It's very easy to say a managers tactics are outdated when you never have to specifically say why.
No one said they are shit.
However, people are treating City squad as if they consist of gods that need no manager to dominate the league. They are very good, but not like they have the MSN upfront and Maldini and Nesta in the back.
I have said why they are outdated, as they simply do not work in Europe without having a prime Messi.
That is a proven fact.
He reached semi final 3 times with Bayern and has been in final and semi final last 2 years with City.
Doesn't work.
Chill. He was leading the tie against Real Madrid till the 90+1 minute of main time.
Leading before full time is completely irrelevant unless you manage to hold on for the victory, he & his team were simply incapable of doing so, they and him are not good enough where and when it matters most, that is just a fact.He reached semi final 3 times with Bayern and has been in final and semi final last 2 years with City.
Doesn't work.
Chill. He was leading the tie against Real Madrid till the 90+1 minute of main time.
His teams consistently reach advanced stages in CL. That proves his tactics do work in Europe. Unless your definition of "working tactics" is him having to win the competition consistently, which is just a narrow sighted vision which seems to be commonly only applied on Pep because God knows why.
I'd argue maybe that they see so much domination in normal matches, once they come up against a team that can actually compete with them, they don't really know what's happening?
How often do you see city on the backfoot like they were in the last 10 against Madrid. They seemed utterly confused by having to actually defend their penalty box.
You said Pep is tactically outdated but you haven't said why or how.
Anyone watching the two games against Madrid can clearly see its nothing to do with tactics.
The tactics that he used, and deciding to play a half fit Walker are why they are out.
He got it very wrong against Real Madrid, as he has done consistently in Europe ever since he had a prime Messi at his disposal.
Other clubs have managed to win the Champions League without spending a quarter of what he has spent, so it really is on him.
That's exactly what I mean, yes. Maybe if you want to give this issue a tactical spin you could suspect that he spends so much time on his "plan A", that his teams just aren't prepared for these situations and therefore start panicking? But that's just an idea, I have no proof for this.
The proof is that it keeps on happening season after season, after season after season.
No one expects him to win the CL consistently.
But he took over a Bayern team that had reached 3 of the last 4 CL finals while still having a core that wasn't aging (and that won the WC 2014) before he arrived and didn't get into a single final.
And he assembled the most expensive team and only made it to one lost final with City.
That's just below expectations, I think he should have gotten into 3-4 finals and have won 1-2 in the last decade with these resources.
Come on, he is leading the Premier League and reached the semi-final in the CL? Last year they reached the final.I think it´s more a question of players. They work within the system, but when the system doesnt hold, they dont have individual characters to make the difference (as Real or Liverpool).
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Sure the answer to self destructing in big UCL games is to sign the biggest big game flop.