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Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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That is a lot crazier than a show from Tucker Carlson.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...the-great-in-quest-to-take-back-russian-lands
It seems that if Russia does not lose in Ukraine, the problems will not stop. The Baltic states will probably be next.
In my opinion, Europe (Germany) has to do much more to help Ukraine. Not just "thoughts and prayers" but heavy equipment, and training on modern aircraft. For the Russians, this is a war of Russia vs Europe, and it is silly that Europe refuses to accept that. Yes, it is true that Europe did not want this war. However, now we are in it and helping Ukraine beat Russia is the fastest way to end this war. If Russia wins, nothing will end. Russia will just re-arm and create the next crisis in the future.
It seems that if Russia does not lose in Ukraine, the problems will not stop. The Baltic states will probably be next.
In my opinion, Europe (Germany) has to do much more to help Ukraine. Not just "thoughts and prayers" but heavy equipment, and training on modern aircraft. For the Russians, this is a war of Russia vs Europe, and it is silly that Europe refuses to accept that. Yes, it is true that Europe did not want this war. However, now we are in it and helping Ukraine beat Russia is the fastest way to end this war. If Russia wins, nothing will end. Russia will just re-arm and create the next crisis in the future.
Is it possible Russia will 'freeze' the war soon, claiming they achieved all the objectives?
Of course that wont mean the war is over, they'll just rearm and reorganize for a future push into Ukraine.
Of course that wont mean the war is over, they'll just rearm and reorganize for a future push into Ukraine.
Ukraine won't just stop trying to take back their territory. That makes it difficult for Russia to reorganise.
I think you're right that it's about conquest but wrong that it's not about natural resources. Putin learned back in St Petersburg (and from much of Russian history) that whoever secures and controls resources (grain, metals, oil, gas, water etc etc) controls Russia. Given that he purportedly believes that e.g. Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia etc are rightfully Russian, then his first play will always be for their resources. This is why Crimea and the Donbas are important (oil, gas, minerals etc), and why the southern coast of Ukraine is important (controls the flow of grain out of Russia and Ukraine to the world).
Essentially he is using resources to make a power play to "Russia" and as a warning shot to the wider world.
Very unlikely. I think even if they managed to take the whole of the Donbas (unlikely on its own IMO) then he would want to push on to conquer the whole of the southern coast of Ukraine. Even then I don't see how they'd be able to defend all that territory tbh, they'd probably have to keep pushing until Ukraine gets demoralised and makes a deal.
I dread to think how many Russia are losing a day given their apparent tactics and that they’re the aggressor. Such a waste of life.
Given Ukraine will not get demoralizes soon imo and they'll get more and more weapons it will soon be a stalemate. Sadly thats the best scenario we can hope for at the moment.
They dont' have the ability to do that, unless they withdraw... They may certainly start pushing for some sort of ceasefire or new Minsk agreement at some point, usin their $ influence in the west to change the narrative.
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The Russians are making the same mistakes the Japanese did. Once you start executing prisoners of war, there is no longer a reason to surrender. So your enemies simply start fighting to the death - which is going to result in even more dead Russians.
The chivalry Rommel showed to the English in ww2 (yes I know not ALWAYS - horror of war) at least as far as prisoners are concerned is far better, but I suppose it takes manpower and admitting you're even in a war to begin with. I can't imagine any Russian officers going against their commanders in chiefs orders to show decency and that's deeply sad.
The chivalry Rommel showed to the English in ww2 (yes I know not ALWAYS - horror of war) at least as far as prisoners are concerned is far better, but I suppose it takes manpower and admitting you're even in a war to begin with. I can't imagine any Russian officers going against their commanders in chiefs orders to show decency and that's deeply sad.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-crony-calls-west-27165205
One of Vladimir Putin's cronies has hit out at "b******s" and "degenerates" in the West who wish "death" upon Russia.
Former president Dmitry Medvdev - one of the tyrant's closest allies - is now the deputy head of the Kremlin's security council.
Recently he has made poisonous attacks on Russia's enemies in what some see as a bid for a political comeback after he was ousted as prime minister.
His latest message on his Telegram channel said: “I am often asked why my Telegram posts are so harsh.
“I respond - because I hate them. They are bastards, degenerates.
“They want death to us, to Russia. And while I am alive, I will be doing everything so that they disappear.”
One of Vladimir Putin's cronies has hit out at "b******s" and "degenerates" in the West who wish "death" upon Russia.
Former president Dmitry Medvdev - one of the tyrant's closest allies - is now the deputy head of the Kremlin's security council.
Recently he has made poisonous attacks on Russia's enemies in what some see as a bid for a political comeback after he was ousted as prime minister.
His latest message on his Telegram channel said: “I am often asked why my Telegram posts are so harsh.
“I respond - because I hate them. They are bastards, degenerates.
“They want death to us, to Russia. And while I am alive, I will be doing everything so that they disappear.”
What a fecking bell end he must be.
Imagine a grown man not able to think for himself
He was seen as moderate when he was a president. Later he got out of favour with Putin and I think he is now trying to get closer to him again by being absolutely batshit with his statements.
Dmitry Medvedev is a tool. If I remember correctly, Putin was president of Russia for two 4-year terms, and the Constitution of Russia did not allow for a third term. So, Putin made Medvedev the new President and "he" (Medvedev) changed the Constitution so that Putin can become President again (and again). Putin is the mafia boss, Medvedev is one of his cronies, he'd be a nobody without Putin.
Unfortunately, all that was well known to Merkel and the other European leaders. It was idiotic to bind Europe to Russia. I still cannot believe that the German leaders did that because they were stupid, my theory is that the were paid under the table with generous kickbacks. Of course, I have no proof, but Merkel has a PhD, she is not stupid, and I can't find any better explanation. She is also ex-East Germany citizen, so she knew first hand about the KGB and their lies. It is very hard to believe that Merkel was naive and was played by Putin, it seems to me that corruption is a more rational explanation, especially because of the German inaction since 2014, after the occupation of Crimea and flight MH17.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53367425
Speaking about Germans ... here is a direct quote from the article below.
Thus far, not a single heavy weapon has been delivered directly to Ukraine by Germany.
https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...eapons-a-7cc8397b-2448-49e6-afa5-00311c8fedce
Why Has Germany Been So Slow to Deliver Weapons?
Half of all Germans – not to mention numerous allied nations – believe the German chancellor could be doing more to help Ukraine. Why has Olaf Scholz's government been so hesitant?
....
It seems likely that Scholz would never have delivered any weapons at all without massive pressure from abroad and from within his own governing coalition. The chancellor has had to be pressured into taking every single step.
.....
Thus far, not a single heavy weapon has been delivered directly to Ukraine by Germany.
https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...eapons-a-7cc8397b-2448-49e6-afa5-00311c8fedce
Why Has Germany Been So Slow to Deliver Weapons?
Half of all Germans – not to mention numerous allied nations – believe the German chancellor could be doing more to help Ukraine. Why has Olaf Scholz's government been so hesitant?
....
It seems likely that Scholz would never have delivered any weapons at all without massive pressure from abroad and from within his own governing coalition. The chancellor has had to be pressured into taking every single step.
.....
No, the truth about Germany is much more complicated than corruption of our top politicians (with Merkel I am sure she received no kickbacks). Corruption is negligient in this matter.
But yes, Germany was bought by Russia, but not a single or multiple persons are responsible for that. Germany society as whole was bought by cheap and dependable supply of russian energy in form of gas and oil.
Our statewide, regional and city energy companies and suppliers (often stateowned by cities or the regional states) got cutrate prices by Russia. So the energy dependent industry was happy and also the population for reasonable heating pices.
And nobody wanted to change that, as energy prices soared and Russia offered even more cheap oil and gas Germany even got more dependent.
And even if a top politician wanted to change that, he would have not had a chance. Lobbying from industry and citizens would have been to great. Nearly every powerful "state governor" was in favour of that cheap russian energy. The majority of MPs representing their citizens and businesses also.
What Merkel (and Schröder before) did, was the political will of the German society.
Okay, you may be right, but:
1. Schröder made millions. Is he really the only one? It is hard to believe that only ONE German politician was directly bought by Putin. And that ONE politician happened to be a Prime Minister (usually foreign agents are lower rank politicians).
2. Merkel grew up in the secretive East Germany. It is not hard to imagine that we don't know everything about her. Perhaps she has learned to hide a lot.
3. There is a war for 100+ days now. Why isn't Germany doing much? See the Spiegel article above. Obviously Spiegel cannot directly accuse anyone, but it is really hard to understand why Scholtz is doing nothing.
Orcs.
Yeah, this is wild speculation on my part, I admit that. Not unrealistic, but still...
All three of your claims have been refuted again and again in this thread, yet you keep repeating them. It's really not a good look.
A stalemate isn't far off what it is now. If Ukraine were to get stronger what makes you think that the best case scenario would be more stalemate? You can't fund and fight a major foreign war forever if you won't even admit it's a war. Something would also have to change on the Russian side to earn a stalemate - as things stand if the Ukrainians keep their will to fight and get better weaponry they will in time grind the Russian army to dust. Big ifs of course - but to me it's way more likely that one side or the other eventually wins and the other has to make a deal.
Refuted? Do you mean that this has been refuted?
3. There is a war for 100+ days now. Why isn't Germany doing much? See the Spiegel article above. Obviously Spiegel cannot directly accuse anyone, but it is really hard to understand why Scholtz is doing nothing.
The article I linked above is a recent one from Spiegel. How has it been refuted? Have you read it? It says it is hard to understand why Scholtz is doing what he is doing, exactly what I am saying.
And has the point (1) been refuted? How? By whom? Here are a couple of articles I have saved. Please read them with an open mind, you may find something interesting.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...a-special-responsibility-to-stop-putins-evil/
https://www.politico.eu/article/blame-germany-russia-policy/
https://www.dw.com/en/german-businessmen-in-russia-more-than-gerhard-schröder/a-40761086
https://www.ft.com/content/6560170c-95f5-478e-860f-eec683c049af
I'm not going into those discussions again. I'll let you have the honour of having bored that conversation to death by sheer repetition.
The slower 'some countries' delivers it's weapons and drags this war on, the longer this stagflation is going to be. Ukraine will fight until its last man is down. And if that isn't enough and Russia takes over all of Ukraine, stagflation will last a decade due to the neverending military and economic tensions between Eastern Europe and USS Ukraine. NATO might have to fight a war then too. This is no good for anybody.
The fastest way for economic recovery is to hand Russia a good beating, and open up food and energy exports from Ukraine into the world.
Sort it out EU.
The fastest way for economic recovery is to hand Russia a good beating, and open up food and energy exports from Ukraine into the world.
Sort it out EU.
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Point (2) I agree it is wild speculation. It has not been "refuted" because it is wild speculation on my part. Probably because I don't like Merkel, because I believe she is responsible for destroying the Greek economy (and me and my family lost a lot in that, so I'd love to see Merkel in prison, but I know it will never happen... ) But I also hold her responsible for Ukraine, she refused to accept Ukraine to NATO, she pushed for Russian gas pipelines, she was a "Putin enabler" for 16 years. She has direct or indirect responsibility for this war. How big a responsibility I don't know, but Germany was making a lot of decisions for all the EU in the past 15 years.
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I have a horrible feeling this is going to end up in an all out world war
It won't. Russia can barely hold it's own against the Ukraine and it has no real allies.
I doubt it will get to that stage no one can afford it.
But even if it did would it really be a World War? Wouldn't it just be Nato vs Russia?
I don’t believe Merkel was on the take (she is a person of integrity even though her continuation of Ostpolitik is not looking good from the perspective of 2022). Nor do I believe she was subject to kompromat. However, I find it hard to believe that Schröder was the only Putinversteher on the Kremlin payroll.
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From the BBC:
"UK defence secretary makes unannounced visit to Ukraine
The UK's defence secretary Ben Wallace has been on an unannounced visit to Ukraine.
The Ministry of Defence said he was there for two days this week and met his Ukrainian counterpart Oleksii Reznikov, as well as President Volodymyr Zelensky.
In a video posted on the president’s official Telegram channel, Wallace is seen telling Zelensky he is doing an “amazing job".
The MoD said Wallace was able to hear first-hand how the operational needs of Ukraine's armed forces are developing as the nature of the conflict changes.
"This will ensure that the UK's continued support is evolving to meet those requirements and is tailored to the situation on the ground," it said.
It added that the three politician agreed to work more closely "in support of their shared goal of enabling Ukraine to liberate itself from illegal Russian occupation".
It's not clear when the politicians met and whether they were able to discuss the situation of the two British men - Shaun Pinner and Aiden Aslin - who have been sentenced to death after fighting in Ukraine by an unrecognised court in the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic."
"UK defence secretary makes unannounced visit to Ukraine
The UK's defence secretary Ben Wallace has been on an unannounced visit to Ukraine.
The Ministry of Defence said he was there for two days this week and met his Ukrainian counterpart Oleksii Reznikov, as well as President Volodymyr Zelensky.
In a video posted on the president’s official Telegram channel, Wallace is seen telling Zelensky he is doing an “amazing job".
The MoD said Wallace was able to hear first-hand how the operational needs of Ukraine's armed forces are developing as the nature of the conflict changes.
"This will ensure that the UK's continued support is evolving to meet those requirements and is tailored to the situation on the ground," it said.
It added that the three politician agreed to work more closely "in support of their shared goal of enabling Ukraine to liberate itself from illegal Russian occupation".
It's not clear when the politicians met and whether they were able to discuss the situation of the two British men - Shaun Pinner and Aiden Aslin - who have been sentenced to death after fighting in Ukraine by an unrecognised court in the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic."