calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
Fair enough.Luckily your opinion is rare and frankly opposed to your usual normal posts I find it kinda gross.
Fair enough.Luckily your opinion is rare and frankly opposed to your usual normal posts I find it kinda gross.
You said a child shouldn't be born that way ever which is why I said you were forgetting about her choice. That's probably not what you meant now that you've clarified.Oh sod off, its the reality of it.
Flipside is you're championing rape births.
Also as per the sentiment below, if its the mothers choice it'd also be my own choice to commit suicide would it not?
You can't have it both ways.
Nope they don't trump it, still that's the reality of it.
She can make her choice much like the person could if / when they found out they were the product of something as horrifically violent and disgusting as rape.
My kids were unplanned. Unplanned is not the same as unwanted.Many unplanned kids grows up just fine, not every unplanned birth would result in neglection. Some parents just not really planning for it, but doesnt mean they go starving and unwanted.
My ex was pregnant by accident, drove out of her house but the kids turns out just fine and they're happily together as family.
She was 19 when she had her first son
A complete ban in some states, including for rape and incest.Is abortion going to be completely banned in all/some of the states or is it after 12 week of pregnancy period for example? I do agree there should be a cut off period where its too late to abort, say 12-16 weeks. After that it starts to look too much like a sentient lifeform.
Aborting before that i personally dont have an issue with. There are far too many children in the system who come from homes where they werent wanted. Forcing the birth of a unwanted child is a crime in itself imho.
These are facts not scare words. You're the one trying to play around with definitions to of extreme late term pregnancies.Again with the scare words. It’s a fetus.
I guess I'm speaking in ideal scenarios. I fully appreciate it does happen, sadly.You said a child shouldn't be born that way ever which is why I said you were forgetting about her choice. That's probably not what you meant now that you've clarified.
Ok fair enough. I wasn't sure whether you meant it that way. Thanks for clarifying. We'll have to disagree on the length of term end of things.Please do not think I was intimating that you would besmirch someone, I was just illuminating my feelings on it. Apologies if it came off as a shot across the bow.
I do understand that it is extreme, but I wouldn’t be opposed to that scenario of having the option available.
I am championing rape births by saying kids should not commit suicide?Oh sod off, its the reality of it.
Flipside is you're championing rape births.
Also as per the sentiment below, if its the mothers choice it'd also be my own choice to commit suicide would it not?
You can't have it both ways.
Nope they don't trump it, still that's the reality of it.
She can make her choice much like the person could if / when they found out they were the product of something as horrifically violent and disgusting as rape.
Why is it either or? A raped woman should abort her fetus if she wishes to, but up until a certain point. Beyond 20 whatever weeks she should give birth and give it up for adoption if she so wishes to.What about, at any point in her pregnancy, a raped woman can induce child birth. If the child lives unaided, put it up for adoption, if it dies, it dies. Natural enough?
It's still not a baby until its born. My daughters were fetuses until they were born, because a baby is outside a womb and a fetus is inside the womb. My best friend's wife had a still birth at 8 and a half months, they had a pregnancy but didn't have a baby.These are facts not scare words. You're the one trying to play around with definitions to of extreme late term pregnancies.
But, just to entertain you do you know very late term abortions even happen? The fetus is way too developed to dismember parts within the body. So you either have to go in and kill the baby or partially deliver and kill (which was banned in 2003 it seems). The killing is done by lethal injection.
I am aware.These are facts not scare words. You're the one trying to play around with definitions to of extreme late term pregnancies.
But, just to entertain you do you know very late term abortions even happen? The fetus is way too developed to dismember parts within the body. So you either have to go in and kill the baby or partially deliver and kill (which was banned in 2003 it seems). The killing is done by lethal injection.
12-16 weeks because of how it looks doesn't seem a particularly objective cut off point.Is abortion going to be completely banned in all/some of the states or is it after 12 week of pregnancy period for example? I do agree there should be a cut off period where its too late to abort, say 12-16 weeks. After that it starts to look too much like a sentient lifeform.
Aborting before that i personally dont have an issue with. There are far too many children in the system who come from homes where they werent wanted. Forcing the birth of a unwanted child is a crime in itself imho.
Right. Doesn't mean we would wish we were aborted.I guess I'm speaking in ideal scenarios. I fully appreciate it does happen, sadly.
I doubt there is a single poster here that would like to find out they were the result of a rape. Chances are for many it would adversely affect their mental health and suicide a likely outcome in quite a lot of instances (I don't have the data but would assume so).
It'd absolutely tear me apart personally, having to live with that my entire life. My own personal belief would be that it's extremely selfish of the mother to keep the child, albeit one that is entirely a choice of their own. Again, I would never do that to a child myself. I don't have the data at hand, but I'd imagine quite a lot of mothers (more so this generation) would abort in the instance of rape.
The person could be a perfectly functioning being (whatever their age), but finding that information out would be as good as death sentence. I highly doubt they would carry on their life relatively care free. That's just my own sentiments on it.
That's what I'm saying, induce birth at any point and don't give it assistance. If it lives "God wants it", put it up for adoption, if it dies, "God didn't want it". You don't have to intubate, you chose to.I am championing rape births by saying kids should not commit suicide?
Why is it either or? A raped woman should abort her fetus if she wishes to, but up until a certain point. Beyond 20 whatever weeks she should give birth and give it up for adoption if she so wishes to.
Why are you posing me with the question of inducing birth at any point when I have not suggested anything of that sort. I don't know what parallel you are even trying to make from this.That's what I'm saying, induce birth at any point and don't give it assistance. If it lives "God wants it", put it up for adoption, if it dies, "God didn't want it". You don't have to intubate, you chose to.
Jesus. Thats bad i.e. the highlighted.A complete ban in some states, including for rape and incest.
12-16 weeks is too little time, there has never been a viable baby before 21 weeks. As I said above, even with the best medical assistance, it's only a 50/50 chance of survival at 24 weeks.
Nor I and it should be a medical staff and patient decision which my opinion about is utterly irrelevant.Please do not think I was intimating that you would besmirch someone, I was just illuminating my feelings on it. Apologies if it came off as a shot across the bow.
I do understand that it is extreme, but I wouldn’t be opposed to that scenario of having the option available.
Pssst… if you were, you wouldn’t know the difference.Right. Doesn't mean we would wish we were aborted.
From a hypothetical standpoint it's hard to judge. I don't think it would necessarily be a death sentence but it's obviously a very hard thing to deal with. It has to be said I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here as I've no experience of, or certainly can't recall, hearing from someone who's been through that.I guess I'm speaking in ideal scenarios. I fully appreciate it does happen, sadly.
I doubt there is a single poster here that would like to find out they were the result of a rape. Chances are for many it would adversely affect their mental health and suicide a likely outcome in quite a lot of instances (I don't have the data but would assume so).
It'd absolutely tear me apart personally, having to live with that my entire life. My own personal belief would be that it's extremely selfish of the mother to keep the child, albeit one that is entirely a choice of their own. Again, I would never do that to a child myself. I don't have the data at hand, but I'd imagine quite a lot of mothers (more so this generation) would abort in the instance of rape.
The person could be a perfectly functioning being (whatever their age), but finding that information out would be as good as death sentence. I highly doubt they would carry on their life relatively care free. That's just my own sentiments on it.
And - you want exactly that people to be parents of kids...Sure..but on the flip side there are parents who aborts for the silliest reason. And I'm not saying full anti abortion, but some flexibility and some constraint should exist.
Probably the wrong choice of word, but you suggested they'd be no different.I am championing rape births by saying kids should not commit suicide?
Ideally, they probably should be. But we don't live in an ideal world and ultimately its up to the mother.Right. Doesn't mean we would wish we were aborted.
And yet so so so many are. You’ve got an anecdotal story, well me too… I’ve got the anecdotal story of my wife, born to a 16 year old. She was neglected, abused, brought to drug deals, and spent time homeless. Sure, she’s a nurse practitioner now and folks like you would say “see she turned out fine”, but folks like me see the other side of the coin, the side that exists because of all the trauma she experienced growing up without a father and unwanted.Many unplanned kids grows up just fine, not every unplanned birth would result in neglection. Some parents just not really planning for it, but doesnt mean they go starving and unwanted.
My ex was pregnant by accident, drove out of her house but the kids turns out just fine and they're happily together as family.
She was 19 when she had her first son
I don't either have the experience.From a hypothetical standpoint it's hard to judge. I don't think it would necessarily be a death sentence but it's obviously a very hard thing to deal with. It has to be said I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here as I've no experience of, or certainly can't recall, hearing from someone who's been through that.
I'm not saying ALL abortion. I can't say for 100%, but in my country most of "unplanned" pregnancy were the results of kids just having sex pre-marriage, and the selfishness of the guy for not wearing contraception, the norm was "cum outside" or just "ovulation apps". In my ex's case she was 19, doing her degree and being pregnant means she has to drop out, getting a child at such an early age without being able to see through her education, and getting married to a guy who might or might not be his love of a lifetime. We all been young before.Do you think having an abortion is just some whimsical get out?
I'm just saying that as a compromise. I can understand why you don't like late term abortions regardless of the situation.Why are you posing me with the question of inducing birth at any point when I have not suggested anything of that sort. I don't know what parallel you are even trying to make from this.
My ex was 19 when she has to make the choice of keep or abort.And - you want exactly that people to be parents of kids...
A kid actually should have the right to be wanted (not to be planned but atleast to be wanted after that). I do not know how much a baby or even a fetus gets influenced by an unlucky mother... But I could imagine that already the pregnant women does more for her health if she really wants the kid - and that for sure influences the health of the kid, too.
I don't know. I'm not saying I can judge what's ok or not ok. I cannot say if your In law (her mum) would have chosen differently, I can't say if your wife would prefer to not given birth to this world. We all don't know honestly, and everyone's answer might be different from where they stand in life. My ex could have chosen to abort it if she has the time machine, chase her dreams and all. But seeing her 2 children and how happy they were, I think she's glad she didn't abort them. I don't know.And yet so so so many are. You’ve got an anecdotal story, well me too… I’ve got the anecdotal story of my wife, born to a 16 year old. She was neglected, abused, brought to drug deals, and spent time homeless. Sure, she’s a nurse practitioner now and folks like you would say “see she turned out fine”, but folks like me see the other side of the coin, the side that exists because of all the trauma she experienced growing up without a father and unwanted.
That’s the story of the majority of people who are born, and will be born, as the result of unwanted pregnancies that are forced to be carried to term.
Indeed. I sincerely hope to see Republicans put in the quandary of now explaining why we have birthright citizenship instead of conceptionright citizenship.Can we fecking stop with the nonsense that a pregnancy results in a baby before the baby is born? If it was, then all the legal rights that kick in (other than preventing abortion) would also do so on the day a woman is pregnant. But they don’t. Because it’s bollocks. So quit with the nonsense that it’s a baby. Just because it’s viable at that point for it to survive alone, doesn’t make it a baby.
Okay, well I'm not aware of the law but if the law allows induced labor at 26 weeks and not having the child in intensive care and not getting charged for that, then I am obviously against that. Laws aside I am saying morally it shouldn't happen because even if the abortion law was there if someone is set on it they'll do it (unless its quite late when it can be dangerous to themselves).I'm just saying that as a compromise. I can understand why you don't like late term abortions regardless of the situation.
After the time limit for abortions, say 24 weeks, some people think that a rape victim should be then stuck for the last 16 weeks until they have a natural birth, some people think rape victims should be able to abort at any point, which you mentioned involves going in and killing the foetus before birth.
What I'm proposing is that a rape victim can induce birth at any time after the time limit, but can choose not to put the born child into NICU. That way you aren't killing the born baby, you're just seeing if the born baby is viable when born.
It finds a distinction between viable and non viable foetuses. Its only a baby if it lives unaided (as in medical equipment, not formula in a bottle) outside the womb.
This would be only for the case of rape or incest victims, not everyone.
If your parents were in or flying over the USA between 10 and 8 months before your birth, you're suddenly an American Citizen! Welcome!Indeed. I sincerely hope to see Republicans put in the quandary of now explaining why we have birthright citizenship instead of conceptionright citizenship.
1) I can, because I’ve asked her. She’d rather have been aborted than to live through some of what she did in her childhood.I don't know. I'm not saying I can judge what's ok or not ok. I cannot say if your In law (her mum) would have chosen differently, I can't say if your wife would prefer to not given birth to this world. We all don't know honestly, and everyone's answer might be different from where they stand in life.
Not an easy choice
I'm not saying "it'll be fine". It's not in some cases, but it's not always ended up badly in some cases too.
But this choices comes with a cost, and I'd prefer to take the chance of having kids if it's the same 50/50 chances.
And some people aren't prepared, able or willing to bear that cost. Sometimes all three. Then you have a child with complex emotions and needs who must deal with all the pain, trauma and potential negative outcomes that result from being neglected.But this choices comes with a cost, and I'd prefer to take the chance of having kids if it's the same 50/50 chances.
GOP heads would explode once they realized illegal immigrants just have to be in the US long enough to get pregnant, not to give birth.If your parents were in or flying over the USA between 10 and 8 months before your birth, you're suddenly an American Citizen! Welcome!
Im getting a lot of "I'm a man and I have a point of view on something I most definitely shouldn't" vibe from most.I'm getting a lot of, "Well I've never had Chicken Pox so Chicken Pox can't possibly exist" vibe from some posters here.
Shag flights to exploit the systemGOP heads would explode once they realized illegal immigrants just have to be in the US long enough to get pregnant, not to give birth.
But your posts contradict this. Surely this explains why the woman herself is the best person to decide, not some old twats on the Supreme Court?I don't know. I'm not saying I can judge what's ok or not ok. I cannot say if your In law (her mum) would have chosen differently, I can't say if your wife would prefer to not given birth to this world. We all don't know honestly, and everyone's answer might be different from where they stand in life. My ex could have chosen to abort it if she has the time machine, chase her dreams and all. But seeing her 2 children and how happy they were, I think she's glad she didn't abort them. I don't know.
Not an easy choice to make as a 19 years old.
I'm not saying "it'll be fine". It's not in some cases, but it's not always ended up badly in some cases too.
But this choices comes with a cost, and I'd prefer to take the chance of having kids if it's the same 50/50 chances.