Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

[Daslogisch]

While I agree in principle, I think even at a "modest" fee of €40-50M it would eventually be too much for them to pass on given they've lost Gravenberch for €19M, Mazraoui for free and Onana for free. €40M for Martinez and €40-50M for Antony gives them a solid budget to bring in replacements. They've already lost some pretty key players for next to nothing, so I imagine getting a decent fee for two of their players is quite the attractive proposition. While you never know with Ajax, they will probably need a bit more cash to get their team back in shape.

So given we've lost Gravenberch and others for not much, we are going to sell others for cheap as well? What kind of logic is that? Ajax has money in the bank and will get more money in the bank from CL. Ajax are not selling cheap anymore. 40-50m for Antony.. just get that out of your head. If he's going it's going to be for around 70m.

Ajax have no intention of selling more players. However Ajax know that all players have a pricetag and there's a point where Ajax can't say no. Reports are that for Martinez Ajax requires €50m guaranteed at least as an amount to which Ajax simply can't refuse. However unlike Antony situation, I do think this deal is very likely to happen eventually and Ajax might let him go for a little less than the reported asking price. However with Ajax wanting €50m guaranteed and United now offering €41+4, I think United are going to need at least one more bid. My estimation right now is that it's going to end up in a total amount of €48-50m and at least €45m guaranteed.

 

[Ekeke]

Spare a thought for Ajax supporters.

I think this is what the club wanted. They wanted Timber to stay as he still has a lot to learn at that level and could become better than he is now due to his age. Whereas they can sell off Lisandro for a big profit to keep their youth product.

Then in a year or two they'll hope Timber is as good or better and they can ask for a De Ligt fee for him from a top club

 

[Ekeke]

CB, ETH has already been quoted from when he was at ajax on whether he prefers martinez in dm or cb position and it was the latter.

Argentine journalists who have followed his career and his break into the national team also say his best position is CB.

He will end up partnering Varane at the back. Martinez isnt slow but he doesnt have Varane recovery pace and pairing him and Maguire together would leave you open to balls played in behind the CBs in a high block. As neither has the pace that varane does.

He's actually quite quick. Absolutely no trouble with balls in behind the defence without a fast partner.

 

[Chief123]

they're getting gutted either way. Gravenberch, Haller and Mazzraoui have already left, Martinez is a goner too (if it's not us, it'll be Arsenal or somebody else). Timber will probably stay for another year, but all the other key players are leaving. It's a tough spot for Ajax. Sure, they have to put their foot down at some point, but I doubt Antony will just quietly accept being priced out of a move while all the others got to leave.

You do know this is Ajax model right? This happens all the time. Bring through young talent and then they get moved on. It’s nothing they don’t expect.

All of the players who have left or are leaving weren’t even featuring in the team a couple of years ago when Ajax got to the semi final of UCL. Ajax let go of De Ligt, De Jong, Van De Beek, Ziyech who were all key players back then.

 

[Teja]

He reached the UCL semi in his first full season so it didn't take him long to get going though.

It's really hard to dig and find articles about his Ajax career now that he's the United manager, but there was a lot of criticism from the papers effectively saying they bought a country boy to the biggest club in the Netherlands and he's not cut out for it. They did go through a period of struggle initially.

 

[Trex]

He's actually quite quick. Absolutely no trouble with balls in behind the defence without a fast partner.

I'll like to see a center back duo of Martinez and Varane(if he can stay fit), I was watching EPL highlights from the past season and I just remembered how clumsy Maguire was game in game out.

 

[Ekeke]

You do know this is Ajax model right? This happens all the time. Bring through young talent and then they get moved on. It’s nothing they don’t expect.

All of the players who have left or are leaving weren’t even featuring in the team a couple of years ago when Ajax got to the semi final of UCL. Ajax let go of De Ligt, De Jong, Van De Beek, Ziyech who were all key players back then.

Yep. Money goes into the health of the club and developing young players through the academy, which in a few years will then be stars of the Ajax first team again and then a few years later be sold to the elite teams for plenty of money and the cycle begins again.

It doesnt stop them winning the league or having success in europe

 

[Adnan]

FDJ probably wouldn't come without ETH but that certainly doesn't mean we wouldn't want to sign him.

Agree though with your overall point but with all the change this summer in scouting and structure we are not really in a position to dictate to ETH who we should be signing, we are a mess and need immediate direction. The mass exodus of players this summer also doesn't leave us with much wriggle room.

It's all or nothing and I think that's how it has to be for the moment, definitely a gamble, let's hope it works.

Agree with this.

Once Murtough decided to remove the two chief scouts, he by default had to remove their work for the current window imo. Because it's been well documented by the most reputable journos for many years now that the transfer targets are drawn up in January and ratified in April. So moving both Lawlor and Bout on, means the scouting isn't going to be as thorough and detailed for the current window imo.

I do think our Dutch league scouting is strong, though, due to our lead scout in Holland, Roy Buekenkamp and the head of European scouting, Henny de Regt both being Dutch, and de Regt also being ex Ajax for 18 years.

Liverpool also signed mostly Klopp targets in the German’s first full season at the club. With the exception of Wijnaldum, the rest of the signings that season were either associated to the Austrian Bundesliga or the German Bundesliga.

 

[sullydnl]

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[Walters_19_MuFc]

Wins 3.3 aerial duels per game, with Lindelof (1.9), Maguire (2.5) and Varane (2.5) winning considerably less.

Think if he were to come, he'd be what Blind was like for us - a more aggressive type, though. Versatile, good on the ball and reads the game well.

I think it's imperative we get at least one left footed centre back, so it would be a step in the right direction if we were to get Martinez.



Lets hope we sign him before our first pre season game vs Liverpool.

 

[RC89]

I think this is what the club wanted. They wanted Timber to stay as he still has a lot to learn at that level and could become better than he is now due to his age. Whereas they can sell off Lisandro for a big profit to keep their youth product.

Then in a year or two they'll hope Timber is as good or better and they can ask for a De Ligt fee for him from a top club

Assuming he signs a contract, he knows United are after him. All reports indicate it's only the WC that's scuppered the move so he may decide not to sign anything this summer meaning he'll only have 18 months left come January.

 

[Chief123]

I’m not hell bent adamant on height for a CB even though it’s desirable. But with the potential changes we could become very vulnerable on set pieces and corners.

We’ve lost Matic/Pogba who both offered protection on corners. If Martinez plays instead of Maguire and Malacia instead of Shaw in any particular game, that’s another big chop in height protection. We could potentially have games where only Varane and Ronaldo offer any physicality and height on corners. That is a concern as we know how important and valuable set pieces are in the Prem. I know we’ve not been the best at them already, but it’s going to be interesting to see how we deal with the situation.

 

[Trex]

It's really hard to dig and find articles about his Ajax career now that he's the United manager, but there was a lot of criticism from the papers effectively saying they bought a country boy to the biggest club in the Netherlands and he's not cut out for it. They did go through a period of struggle initially.

Its normal to go through a period of adaptation duo, when he arrived Ajax they hadn't won the league in three years, he took over in December 2017, and from 18/19 on wards he totally dominated the league winning every title since.

 

[Bondi77]

Martinez is comfortably better and is left footed, and can also play DM.
For a posession team, ability on the ball he is comfortably better than anyone in the squad who plays his positions.
He is also an aggressive defender which we need

That should really be accepted.

A very generous bid for him IMO and if Ajax don’t take it they are taking the piss!

 

[Mainoldo]

€50m. They are taking the p. That latest offer if true should be accepted. I wouldn’t offer higher. They had to come down eventually for Gravenberch.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

NGL, Im very excited with this. Left footed centre back and very impressive world class ball playing stats as well, even more impressive than Pau Torres which was our option to sign. I always want us to sign left footed CB this summer since having left footed one or someone who is comfortable with left foot to play as LCB would help a lot.

 

[Adnan]

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Man Utd are trying to trump Arsenal and have placed a offer at Ajax for a total of €45m. This is close to the total of €50m the people at the Amsterdam club want at least.

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[golden_blunder]

It’s funny to hear he’s too small, he won’t be good enough in the air etc.
Yet all I hear from largely the same people is that Lindelof is good enough even though he too can’t head as a CB. At least Martinez brings other things to the table, better passing, aggressiveness, front foot defending

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Spare a thought for Ajax supporters.

They are used to it. But the thing with Ajax is that the bulk of their talent comes from their academy and there is no need to mention how good their academy is. This is how Manchester United should function in the future, where we use the academy talent to build the squad. We should be seeing the "fruits" this coming season.

 

[Pronewbie]

For 45M you'd think that he'd be a starter, but I remain unconvinced. Looks like a Arsenal-type CB during the latter years under Wenger.

 

[GDaly95]

Malacia, FDJ, Martinez and Eriksen all looking fairly nailed on.

I think we'll top it off with a 5th signing as well, maybe later in the window.

 

[sglowrider]

It's clear now that one of his demands to come was full autonomy over transfers, hopefully he knows what he's doing.

This means that previous managers didn't have full autonomy over the transfers.

 

[Bondi77]

What position do we think he'll play? Centre back or midfield?

Erik has already stated he does not have the running ability to play in midfield.

 

[golden_blunder]

Agree with this.

Once Murtough decided to remove the two chief scouts, he by default had to remove their work for the current window imo. Because it's been well documented by the most reputable journos for many years now that the transfer targets are drawn up in January and ratified in April. So moving both Lawlor and Bout on, means the scouting isn't going to be as thorough and detailed for the current window imo.

I do think our Dutch league scouting is strong, though, due to our lead scout in Holland, Roy Buekenkamp and the head of European scouting, Henny de Regt both being Dutch, and de Regt also being ex Ajax for 18 years.

Liverpool also signed mostly Klopp targets in the German’s first full season at the club. With the exception of Wijnaldum, the rest of the signings that season were either associated to the Austrian Bundesliga or the German Bundesliga.

Good post

 

[PoTMS]

For 45M you'd think that he'd be a starter, but I remain unconvinced. Looks like a Arsenal-type CB during the latter years under Wenger.

I can't say I've watched a lot of him but it is slightly worrying that Arsenal fans saw his signing as a jack of all trades rather than an undisputed starter. €45m is a huge chunk of our budget to be spending on a squad player.

 

[Adisa]

Would comfortably be the best passer at the club if he came in.. that’s saying something

I don't think its a slight. Ederson is perhaps City's best long range passer.

 

[Teja]

Its normal to go through a period of adaptation duo, when he arrived Ajax they hadn't won the league in three years, he took over in December 2017, and from 18/19 on wards he totally dominated the league winning every title since.

Yeah I agree, my initial point was just that ETH joined Ajax, made a couple of signings from his former clubs that didn't pan out. It's possible that Martinez, Antony, Malacia, Timber etc. might be those signings for us and they might not come off.

In an ideal world, the club's scouting system will have targets and the signings are not just based off of what the manager says.

I also have no doubt he'll be successful here.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It’s funny to hear he’s too small, he won’t be good enough in the air etc.
Yet all I hear from largely the same people is that Lindelof is good enough even though he too can’t head as a CB. At least Martinez brings other things to the table, better passing, aggressiveness, front foot defending

Something you would love to see.

 

[Bondi77]

I'll like to see a center back duo of Martinez and Varane(if he can stay fit), I was watching EPL highlights from the past season and I just remembered how clumsy Maguire was game in game out.

Even when Varane played he was no better than Harry anyway.

 

[Raees]

 

[DJ_21]

Hope we’re buying him for dm… he’s going to be to small for cb surely? Will get out jumped. We need a strong dominant cb just like the top teams have.

 

[charlenefan]

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[Ish]

Has a wand of a left foot.

 

[sglowrider]

CB, ETH has already been quoted from when he was at ajax on whether he prefers martinez in dm or cb position and it was the latter.

Argentine journalists who have followed his career and his break into the national team also say his best position is CB.

He will end up partnering Varane at the back. Martinez isnt slow but he doesnt have Varane recovery pace and pairing him and Maguire together would leave you open to balls played in behind the CBs in a high block. As neither has the pace that varane does.

tbh it scares me for Martinez to be a CB. I can't imagine he going up against the Haalands, Nunezs never mind the Mitrovics of the world. They just need to pump the ball into the box. We have the midgets of Malacia (5ft 7) and Martinez (5ft 8) to counter the high crosses?

I see Martinez as the DM to support FdJ though.

 

[Thoms]

We're gonna have a horrible year if he leaves. He's really really good. Glad if he wants to move its going to be UTD.

 

[sglowrider]

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Different profile to anyone in the league. Makes Ben White look like a giant in comparison.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

He's making the most of his ability and he seems a smart player but I just don't think he's good enough for us.

Like I have mentioned, your judgment of his talents are completely different from the manager's. You need to think in the perspective of his attributes, especially on how he can function tactically. Alot of fans here think ETH is someone who just plays the same way as Pep, but based on his tenure at other clubs, he is capable of changing formations and tactics depending on the players.

 

[Judas]

I can't say I'm totally convinced he'll be a success in the PL, but its a different sort of CB for us, and another reason to be excited to see just how we're going to shape up and play this season.

 

[sglowrider]

We're gonna have a horrible year if he leaves. He's really really good. Glad if he wants to move its going to be UTD.

you guys have a great scouting department --- and am sure the slots can be filled up pretty quickly.

 

[PoTMS]

If this the type of the player United wanted, I wonder why we didn't sign Cristian Romero last season instead. Unless it's all on Ten Hag.