Yes, which provides no benefit to the club, which is why it only happens in the exceptional case the player is lunatic.
Phil Jones Future | Reports: Observing United academy sessions
- Thread starter Samid
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If he actually had the opportunity to go to Bordeaux and he turned it down for thinking he should be an automatic starter (a bit rich coming from someone who’s been injured as much as he has) then I have less sympathy for him. It demonstrates he’s just here for the money now.
‘Wanting to stay and fight for a spot’ is the better way of saying ‘I don’t want to let go of those wages’
He’s more than entitled to his contract because Woodward and Judge are absolute morons, but I don’t think he should be remembered too fondly by fans if the first part of the post is true.
‘Wanting to stay and fight for a spot’ is the better way of saying ‘I don’t want to let go of those wages’
He’s more than entitled to his contract because Woodward and Judge are absolute morons, but I don’t think he should be remembered too fondly by fans if the first part of the post is true.
Im assuming that following his own pre season routine means either:
a) Its actually true
b) we are trying to move him on so no point bringing him along.
c) sitting on a plane for 16 hours isnt probably a good idea for someone with his injury record physically.
a) Its actually true
b) we are trying to move him on so no point bringing him along.
c) sitting on a plane for 16 hours isnt probably a good idea for someone with his injury record physically.
I'm convinced that Phil Jones is only here on fecking pity because Ferguson once likened him to Duncan Edwards.
He’ll put in a transfer request and knowing the club they’d panic and give him a new bumper deal to protect his value.
Poor guy? He’s set for life, and his future grandchildren’s grand grand kids are too.
I just don’t understand why would someone with a bit of athletic professionalism and any sort of hunger who had played no football for years, wouldn’t be absolutely desperate to play as much football as he possibly can.
Just find a League 1 or a Championship club, or a club abroad, heck, maybe even a smaller PL club will take a punt, just take a massive wage cut if needed, just go somewhere that will give you the chance to play as much football as possible for the few years you have got left at this point.
He’s not the first footballer who’s had terrible injury issues for years, he’s also a PL winner, played in the CL, played for his country, played for Manchester United, he’s had a better career than 99% of professional football players.
But like, just go Phil.
Go play some football.
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I'm convinced that Phil Jones' mates and family members post here every now and then. No other player that the Caf generally wants rid off for being unproductive or not good enough gets labelled heartless, callous and so on.
This thread is so depressing. He was an extremely talented youngster who must have had realistic dreams of a stellar career. Now it’s been absolutely wrecked by injury but he obviously still wants to prove he’s good enough for Manchester United (even if only to himself). Which is his prerogative. Anyone who could watch him leave the pitch in tears last season and still shit on the guy needs to take a long hard look at themself.
I got this 2-3 years ago, but that ship has surely sailed now.
I'm no Jones hater, and If no one comes in for him then he has every right to stay and get no hassle for it, but it'll stick a bit now if he refuses to leave if a clubs offers him the chance to go, even if it's on reduced terms.
Well it does benefit the club in certain circumstances. For example certain players can be toxic either directly or indirectly. The direct part is self explanatory. However the latter can happen as well especially in a highly pressured/high stake environment such as football is were a big chunk of the salary is tied with club performances bonuses. You see, every club has a wage budget. If there's a player who, for one reason or another is not pulling a shift then that would have an impact on the club which in turn will have an impact on the team's performance. A well run club will always make sure to get rid of players like Jones. They might give a second chance to a top talented/injury prone player but Jones is not one of them.
If you ask me I have a feeling that the club is actually trying to get rid of Phil. Leaks like Ole being shocked that someone gave Jones such long contract + him not being taken to the tour are clear example of the club wanting him out. No one can say whether Jones will take the bullet or if the club is ready to take it to the next level though.
Yeah, well, life isn’t fair.
He’s had a career that 99% of football players could only dream of.
He played at the highest level, under the greatest manager of all time, alongside some of the finest players of their generation (Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs, Van Persie, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard).
I’ll wish him the best of luck but its time to move on Phil.
I don't think that Jones is that stupid tbh. He probably know that he's nowhere near to that level and he'll never be. What I think is happening is a player sticking to his contract knowing that this could probably be his last.
We're a charity at this point.
Maybe but if so then that needs to be made abundantly clear to him by the club. In the absence of any knowledge about what’s going on behind the scenes I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s probably being irrational but it’s understandable in context.
I haven’t been following the whole thread but isn’t the most recent abuse being aimed at him because he won’t accept a new contract at another club?
I don't really know. The fact that he's refusing a new contract at another club further enforces my argument though. If Jones truly believe that he's still some juice left at top level then he'll move to a smaller club were he can play week in week out, he'd prove himself there and then he'd move back to the big leagues. These things do happen (ex Eriksen with Brentford, Roberto Baggio with Bologna etc). I am afraid that this is all about money. He knows that his career at a top club (or football as a whole) is finished and he's milking every last penny out of a ridiculously long contract.
Well said. People act like he injured himself deliberately to defraud cash from the club when what he has actually endured physically and mentally/psychologically must have been a living hell, yet instead of sympathy he gets mocked and ridiculed.
I think this thread has to go on ignore now because it is mostly inhabited by cnuts and riles me up something rotten.
Waste of space.
Training by himself? What’s the point.
Should go away and train at another club.
Training by himself? What’s the point.
Should go away and train at another club.
Well paid employees are expected to perform or are otherwise in trouble. In a normal work environment this happens all the time to people who only earn a fraction of his salary. If one can't handle this, he has to look somewhere else to work. Footballers are already incredibly privileged. I am totally against ridiculing him. Nobody deserves that and Phil seems to be a decent guy. Still, on sporting merits, he should have been shipped out 6-7 years ago. Maybe even earlier. Usually clubs make decisions about players based on their quality and not sentimentality.
Part of the fan base seems to still secretly believe, that he is going to come on and show great performances, probably because he is one of the few connections to the era of SAF. Its delusional. We are talking about a guy who played around 17.000 minutes over the course of 11 seasons. Around 300 minutes in the premiere league in the last three years.
Part of the fan base seems to still secretly believe, that he is going to come on and show great performances, probably because he is one of the few connections to the era of SAF. Its delusional. We are talking about a guy who played around 17.000 minutes over the course of 11 seasons. Around 300 minutes in the premiere league in the last three years.
Toxic... Lunatic. Semantics...
Jones isn't toxic as far as we know, so there's no point to fire him in that case.
I'm not sure you can just "save" money by not paying bonus tied wages upon firing. Regardless, I imagine there's very few bonusses he'd be getting if he's injured and barely plays anyway...
If he decides to mutually end his contract so he can move on a free or if we manage to sell him on a for a small fee you might end up making a loss, which again, why risk it if Jones isn't being a nuisance.
And all this is under the assumption that you know he's going to be near useless while he's carrying the injury, which is just talking in hindsight.
Basically you're talking about this stuff in a generic sense when that's completely pointless 'cause we know who the subject is.
And btw, Van Ginkel at Chelsea had a similar disastrous injury spells at Chelsea and was given a one year extension after his contract had run out. So this idea that having an injured player on the books or something is "exemplary of the current state of Man Utd", which I've seen mentioned a lot here in this thread, is silly.
Can’t injure those around him. We should make Maguire do the same.
It's okay, he's doing a CB->DM conversion training. Two problems solved!
Seriously though, what a sad state of affairs. He's still not even that old.
Seriously though, what a sad state of affairs. He's still not even that old.
read the thread title as Phil Jones' Fracture
Probably right
I am referring to other players. No one loves to carry the tab for anyone. They might be sympathetic at first towards someone whose sick but the buck will somehow end somewhere especially if the job in question is tied to performance bonuses that can't be accessed because not everyone is pulling his shift. Regarding Van Ginkel I don't think that he was anywhere near entitled to his testimonial match when he left, Jones is. Let's be honest, no well run club would let someone whose always injured and was never really great in the first place to stay for this long
Undoubtedly he’s been plagued by injuries since he’s been with us. But I’d have thought he’d have seriously considered retirement by now?
I have no clue what you're on about or how any of this is relevant.
Lots of "mights" and hypotheticals. Again we're talking about Jones.
Ok let's talk about United then. Its evident that standards had slipped in the past few years, keeping an injury prone player who was never that great in the first place here for 11 years hasn't helped. In fact he's the living embodiment of what's wrong in this club, a meme that keeps on giving.
I don't believe that Jones will leave on a transfers. I think he'll suck every penny out of his contract simply because no one at this level would give him a punt.
I appreciate the brevity, but you must have missed I addressed this on the same page no less.
Clubs take punts which sometimes work and sometimes do not. However Jones has been here for 11 years. That's not a gamble but plain stupidity. Which is why I can't see Jones leaving. No one is stupid enough to give him such contract so he'll suck every penny out of it.
Would you? He is a Manchester United with all the social status that gives and a very good financial reward. Why would he retire? As long as he will be offered new contracts he will accept them. Would anyone do different? Better to be a injured and basically a former footballer at Manchester United than a retired footballer i think.
They gave Van Ginkel a contract to help him find his feet and not be a cnut to their employees. It had nothing to do with taking a punt. At that point Van Ginkel had been at Chelsea for ~6 years and had numerous seasons without a game played and with multiple surgeries done.Why comment on something you know nothing about and make shit up?
The first part is not true though. He had an offer of a loan for the second half of last season and the money would have been the same as if he had stayed here. It was clear Bordeaux wanted him as a back up/emergency option and RR was offering him the same role here. I totally understand not heading off to a new club during a pandemic for the probability of no more minutes than you would get at home, especially when you consider he has young kids at home.
He wants to play and did manage to prove he is capable at the back end of last season. I think he knows he is not getting regular football here and certainly not another contract so if a club like Fulham for example offered him a genuine deal I think he would take it, the only impediment to that is that according to the ITKs we seem to think we should be due a transfer fee on him which is stupid and may strand him here until his contract runs out as nobody is paying a fee with his injury record.
Why not, though? Why not go to the south of France and play in a much, much weaker league in which you can escape the relentless pressure of playing in the PL for Man Utd? There's no way Bordeaux could absolutely guarantee him starting time, but he stood a much better chance there than he did for us. I also find the 'he's got kids at home, why should he leave them' argument really odd. It's Bordeaux for 6 months, not the Gaza strip. And he's a footballer. It's the nature of the job that you need to stay active and be playing as much as possible - a player like Jones doesn't have the privilege to be passing up those sorts of opportunities without raising a few eyebrows.
Forgoing that stint in France changed my outlook of Jones's situation in all honesty. I wish him well but yeh, off ya pop.
Axel Tuanzebe could tell him why not, similar scenario and got to play 1 game.
Frankly they said Phil do you want to stay here and eat Steak or pop over to France and eat Spam on the off chance you will really like our Spam even though we cannot guarantee we will have any available for you. It was a joke offer and I have no issue with him turning it down.
First of all Chelsea is not a well run club. For the money they invest, they should have won more league titles and CLs. Secondly Van Ginkel was injured for 2 years and 8 months. He then moved to PSV. Jones has played 6 EPL games in 4 years. Prior to that he played 20+ EPL games per season in 3 out of 8 seasons. So how exactly does that justify a long term contract? Some people talk about Jones as if he's some sort of legend at the club when the reality is that there was a very small window when he was useful and much smaller window when he was actually a first teamer.
Why comment on something you know nothing about and make shit up?
Anything all being said is useless. The reality is that Jones will most probably milk every penny of his very generous contract not because he believes that he'll make a comeback but simply because we were too feckin stupid to give it to him in the first place. If he had any hope of making a comeback then he would have moved elsewhere.
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Probably has but what job will pay him similar money for doing nothing? His contract should have been exclusively money on appearances and performance. This would have at least motivated the fecker to do some work and if he couldn’t meet the requirements he would have then had no option but to leave for another team or profession.
re the bolded. That's not what we're discussing. We were talking about firing him/terminating his contract. Scroll up.
It’s not a new thing, ledley king had his own regime to keep his knees from falling apart. Paul McGrath didn’t train much for same reason
This sentiment is fine, and I have no real issue with Jones, or indeed the footballer that he was when he was actually fit, but he has no business being at the club right here and now in 2022.
If he is still here come September then there is something seriously wrong all round.