Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

[Faetheshire86]

We tried to sign Timber, when he said he won't be moving this season we quickly moved to Martinez. This clearly shows ten Hag feels our CBs are not good enough when it comes to playmaking.

Every ManUtd fan believed we need a 6 who is defensively stronger, ten Hag is desperate to sign de Jong after signing Eriksen.

Maybe how fans see and how EtH reads the game is very different. There are holes for sure but maybe manager thinks the players we signed are of higher priority.

I guess I don't think any of Maguire, Lindelof, Varane are particularly poor passers. I think a tweak to our approach, potential improvements in coaching and some more press resistant midfielders would help alleviate a lot of the issues we had with progressing the ball from defence to attack. Also maybe I underestimate this particular skill when judging the ability of our current centre backs.

To me it feels like really poor resource management if, after we sign Martinez, our 4th choice centre back is comparatively better than our first choice right back, our second choice #9, probably our second choice winger (Rashford) and certainly our third choice (Elanga).

Now if we sign De Jong, a right back, a winger , we replace Ronaldo or he stays and performs for us and we continue to see Martial improve in preseason (although we've all been down that road before)... then all of a sudden the Martinez signing starts to make much more sense to me.

I'm still unsure how I feel about a De Jong and Eriksen midfield pair, I would definitely have some concerns about that, but regardless as soon as the season kicks off I'll be behind the manager and his signings 100%.

Hopefully it all comes off but I'm struggling to get it.

Yeah I agree, it just reminds me of the 2020 window when we needed a right winger, #6, #9, centre back and we signed two right wing prospects who were years away, a backup left back and splashed £35m on a backup for the best player in our team.

 

[izec]

fecking hell, stop bullying the poor fella. He will be our own scrappy doo. You always need a player overcompensating for his height with a fierce attitude.

 

[simonhch]

Potentially would cost as much as Bruno who even if I don't rate that highly is a goal-scoring attacker.

Our club is run by idiots.

car crash of a post

Is there any official confirmation of the fee? A day ago it was being reported everywhere as a base fee of around £45m. So where's the suggestion of the much higher fee and is there any reason why we should believe the higher fee when everyone was going with the £45m including Romano, Stone etc?

Usual Caf hysteria. He’s the player ETH wanted, he knows him well. He knows how he wants to play. People all for it at 42 or 45m, but go bonkers when it’s rumoured to be 50m. There’s not a ton of logic on display, just the usual knee jerk buffoonery trying to find something to be outraged about. The success of this signing will be determined by how well he performs on the field. If he performs as ETH wants/expects, whether we paid 45 or 50m for him will be irrelevant. It’ll be a good deal. If he flops, he’ll be an expensive mistake whether it’s 45 or 50m.

He’s the player the manager wants and says he needs. If we’d walked away from the deal because of a 5m difference, we’d be creating a completely different set of problems. When you identify the player you want, you get him as long as it remains prudent within your financial model. The issue isn't the fee (assuming financial prudence/planning), it’s whether recruitment identification and analysis is good enough.

 

[Mickeza]

In fairness everyone seems to be saying 55m euros including add-ons except the Ajax mouthpiece.

 

[Thoms]

Congrats with Lisandro guys. He will truly be missed. He will bring a much needed winning mentality to the team. Great composure, great with the ball, great with the long ball distribution. I won't be surprised if he will be your captain after a year.

 

[buchansleftleg]

I'm hoping that we have "overpaid" for Martinez as part of a deal to get Anthony too. I heard Anthony has a big sell on clause so it would be in Ajax interest to reduce the fee on Anthony and add some onto Martinez.

The fact the negotiations and price seemed to stall and then increase was maybe us agreeing a "bundle" price for the pair and structuring it in a way to maximise profit for Ajax.

Ajax buying some support for the right wing makes me hope that's the case.

 

[Chief123]

I'm hoping that we have "overpaid" for Martinez as part of a deal to get Anthony too. I heard Anthony has a big sell on clause so it would be in Ajax interest to reduce the fee on Anthony and add some onto Martinez.

The fact the negotiations and price seemed to stall and then increase was maybe us agreeing a "bundle" price for the pair and structuring it in a way to maximise profit for Ajax.

Ajax buying some support for the right wing makes me hope that's the case.

The logic

Why wouldn’t we just pay slightly higher for Antony instead of paying more for Martinez to cover Antony fee?

 

[golden_blunder]

This transfer reminds me of the Donny signing. Nothing to do with them coming from Ajax and more because they were both signed in a window, where we had a lot of glaring holes in other positions. Going in to this season I felt like we needed a #6, #8, right back, winger to pair with Sancho, long term replacement for Ronaldo and then potentially a short term replacement for Ronaldo. Martinez will be our 3rd signing and I still feel like we need another 3 or 4 after that.

I hope this is a case of right guy at the wrong time and we are signing him now because we believe he is too good to miss out on. I don't have much of an opinion on his ability as I haven't seen enough of him, but I would have found it easier to believe if it didn't appear like we were after Timber first.

Despite my slight scepticism, as soon as he signs that all goes out the window and it's all aboard the hype train. Our central defence isn't without it's problems and I will be praying he is the man to solve them.

We need a cb

 

[Tavern in the town]

The logic

Why wouldn’t we just pay slightly higher for Antony instead of paying more for Martinez to cover Antony fee?

Do you understand how percentages work?

 

[Berbasbullet]

The logic

Why wouldn’t we just pay slightly higher for Antony instead of paying more for Martinez to cover Antony fee?

Errrm

 

[Jeppers7]

Congrats with Lisandro guys. He will truly be missed. He will bring a much needed winning mentality to the team. Great composure, great with the ball, great with the long ball distribution. I won't be surprised if he will be your captain after a year.

He looks class to me. I know it’s highlight reels but I can’t remember havimg a defender at United wow me with the ball, as good as Rio and Stam were with the ball. Now if he can defend as well as those two……

 

[Kostov]

I'm hoping that we have "overpaid" for Martinez as part of a deal to get Anthony too. I heard Anthony has a big sell on clause so it would be in Ajax interest to reduce the fee on Anthony and add some onto Martinez.

The fact the negotiations and price seemed to stall and then increase was maybe us agreeing a "bundle" price for the pair and structuring it in a way to maximise profit for Ajax.

Ajax buying some support for the right wing makes me hope that's the case.

One of the most naive things you will read on here

More likely we’ve set a precedent of overpaying with this transfer and they hold out for the 100m quoted for Antony. I mean why wouldn’t they?

 

[Desert Eagle]

Congrats with Lisandro guys. He will truly be missed. He will bring a much needed winning mentality to the team. Great composure, great with the ball, great with the long ball distribution. I won't be surprised if he will be your captain after a year.

I like the intangibles with him too. Think he will be a great leader for the defense.

 

[Davie Moyes]

car crash of a post




Usual Caf hysteria. He’s the player ETH wanted, he knows him well. He knows how he wants to play. People all for it at 42 or 45m, but go bonkers when it’s rumoured to be 50m. There’s not a ton of logic on display, just the usual knee jerk buffoonery trying to find something to be outraged about. The success of this signing will be determined by how well he performs on the field. If he performs as ETH wants/expects, whether we paid 45 or 50m for him will be irrelevant. It’ll be a good deal. If he flops, he’ll be an expensive mistake whether it’s 45 or 50m.

He’s the player the manager wants and says he needs. If we’d walked away from the deal because of a 5m difference, we’d be creating a completely different set of problems. When you identify the player you want, you get him as long as it remains prudent within your financial model. The issue isn't the fee (assuming financial prudence/planning), it’s whether recruitment identification and analysis is good enough.

Good post, spot on.

I've just gone back to Mike Verweij's tweet and realised it's the way he worded it that threw me off and likely to have caused other posters to lose it.

He's saying 64m euros all together inc bonuses, with 55m euros as the base fee. This works out to the same £46m as reported by all outlets. It's just the rest did not mention the bonuses on top which are probably well worth it as he/us will have had success.

 

[horsechoker]

Do you think the official announcement will be today or tomorrow?

 

[sglowrider]

The Butcher of Argentina

 

[Daslogisch]

He looks class to me. I know it’s highlight reels but I can’t remember havimg a defender at United wow me with the ball, as good as Rio and Stam were with the ball. Now if he can defend as well as those two……

Stam? Maybe we have different standards in The Netherlands, but Stam was average on the ball at best. Absolute beast of a defender though.

Martinez is another level in possession, but in fairness not as good defensively as Rio/Stam. In terms of agressiveness, he definitely is, but he doesn't have the physique, speed and composure that Rio and Stam had. Doesn't mean he's not good enough, but that's just the way it is. Martinez is not going to be a perfect defender, but he's going to be good enough and will be great in possession.

In all fairness, there probably are going to be 4/5 moments in a season where you're going to feel like he got beaten too easily or his height is indeed a weakness. The question is if you can see through that. Many people are probably be pissed about it and feel like that's the confirmation he's not good enough. But tell me, which defenders are perfect and make no mistakes? Ramos in his prime still made the odd mistake. VVD's positioning is off quite often (even in his prime). These guys are considered best defenders of their generation. Everyone makes mistakes. Martinez will make them as well, his weaknesses will come forwards every now and then.

However, what he'll bring you on the other side is what will bring the team forwards with leaps and bounds. His aggressiveness, ability to play a high line, great passing which can put someone in front of goal from basicly nowhere and the fact that he can withstand when opponents put pressure on him offer EtH many benefits in the way he wants his team to play. In order the get those benefits, EtH is willing to accept Martinez' weaknesses that may come to fruition a few times in a season. EtH wants this player because the assets Martinez brings are of a much bigger benefit than his holes are a negative. Perfect players don't exist, and if they do they won't sign for a club not playing Champions League football.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Think they are also looking at attitude and wanting to get better. Martinez is supposed to be a terrier which you cannot say about many players in our team. We need a bit of aggression in there. As others have said ETH knows he will fit in with the playing style he wants to implement.

 

[Red the Bear]

The Butcher of Argentina

No thanks, we're trying to get eco friendly over here.

 

[roonster09]

I guess I don't think any of Maguire, Lindelof, Varane are particularly poor passers. I think a tweak to our approach, potential improvements in coaching and some more press resistant midfielders would help alleviate a lot of the issues we had with progressing the ball from defence to attack. Also maybe I underestimate this particular skill when judging the ability of our current centre backs.

To me it feels like really poor resource management if, after we sign Martinez, our 4th choice centre back is comparatively better than our first choice right back, our second choice #9, probably our second choice winger (Rashford) and certainly our third choice (Elanga).

Now if we sign De Jong, a right back, a winger , we replace Ronaldo or he stays and performs for us and we continue to see Martial improve in preseason (although we've all been down that road before)... then all of a sudden the Martinez signing starts to make much more sense to me.

I'm still unsure how I feel about a De Jong and Eriksen midfield pair, I would definitely have some concerns about that, but regardless as soon as the season kicks off I'll be behind the manager and his signings 100%.



Yeah I agree, it just reminds me of the 2020 window when we needed a right winger, #6, #9, centre back and we signed two right wing prospects who were years away, a backup left back and splashed £35m on a backup for the best player in our team.

They aren't poor passers of the ball but they are not very good either. Lindelof is better among 3, Maguire has good dribbling skills but his passing is average.

Start of the window i had CB as the least priority position to sign because we had good enough CBs, when we were linked with Timber i assumed he will play as RB and might transition to DM too, when we were linked with Martinez it was sort of obvious that EtH doesn't rate our CBs on the ball skills.

We have signed Eriksen already and trying to sign de Jong. Also press resistant is also tactical, when the player in possession is pressed he should have options to play the ball and do it quickly. That comes with lot of training something we are working on.

I think lot of our players base level will improve this season as they will know what to do with and without ball.

 

[SoCross]

Have an inkling Marty will play in midfield this season as we are stacked at CB. Or at least start off at midfield and drop to make a three at the back when out of possession.

Yes yes I know EtH said he's better as a defender than a midfielder but our squad needs a midfielder more.

 

[Kostov]

The Butcher of Argentina

Great we have bought the Argentinian Gary Medel for 60m euros.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Anyone moaning about this signing will end up looking like a complete mug.

The type of player we have been sadly lacking in recent years.

 

[Jeppers7]

Stam? Maybe we have different standards in The Netherlands, but Stam was average on the ball at best. Absolute beast of a defender though.

Martinez is another level in possession, but in fairness not as good defensively as Rio/Stam. In terms of agressiveness, he definitely is, but he doesn't have the physique, speed and composure that Rio and Stam had. Doesn't mean he's not good enough, but that's just the way it is. Martinez is not going to be a perfect defender, but he's going to be good enough and will be great in possession.

In all fairness, there probably are going to be 4/5 moments in a season where you're going to feel like he got beaten too easily or his height is indeed a weakness. The question is if you can see through that. Many people are probably be pissed about it and feel like that's the confirmation he's not good enough. But tell me, which defenders are perfect and make no mistakes? Ramos in his prime still made the odd mistake. VVD's positioning is off quite often (even in his prime). These guys are considered best defenders of their generation. Everyone makes mistakes. Martinez will make them as well, his weaknesses will come forwards every now and then.

However, what he'll bring you on the other side is what will bring the team forwards with leaps and bounds. His aggressiveness, ability to play a high line, great passing which can put someone in front of goal from basicly nowhere and the fact that he can withstand when opponents put pressure on him offer EtH many benefits in the way he wants his team to play. In order the get those benefits, EtH is willing to accept Martinez' weaknesses that may come to fruition a few times in a season. EtH wants this player because the assets Martinez brings are of a much bigger benefit than his holes are a negative. Perfect players don't exist, and if they do they won't sign for a club not playing Champions League football.

Brilliant post, I think he will be loved at united but there will always be posters here looking to justify there opinions. Yes I’m sure they’re will be moments here and there, but from what I’ve seen the benefits will outweigh them.

 

[Josh 76]

It’s the first time in ages we are actually buying players to fit into a system, rather than buying a big name for commercial value!

 

[Tavern in the town]

It’s the first time in ages we are actually buying players to fit into a system, rather than buying a big name for commercial value!

When have we ever done this? All the big names we bought were clearly for footballing reasons.

 

[izak]

From what I've seen he's a battler, I love that he's technically gifted but I like the fight in him the most.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I wouldn't worry too much about those moaning. The same fans would be calling the Glazers and Murtough/Arnold if we walked away from the deal over a few million.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

This transfer reminds me of the Donny signing. Nothing to do with them coming from Ajax and more because they were both signed in a window, where we had a lot of glaring holes in other positions. Going in to this season I felt like we needed a #6, #8, right back, winger to pair with Sancho, long term replacement for Ronaldo and then potentially a short term replacement for Ronaldo. Martinez will be our 3rd signing and I still feel like we need another 3 or 4 after that.

I hope this is a case of right guy at the wrong time and we are signing him now because we believe he is too good to miss out on. I don't have much of an opinion on his ability as I haven't seen enough of him, but I would have found it easier to believe if it didn't appear like we were after Timber first.

Despite my slight scepticism, as soon as he signs that all goes out the window and it's all aboard the hype train. Our central defence isn't without it's problems and I will be praying he is the man to solve them.

We need a centre back. Bailly is injury prone and wants to leave as he wants regular first team football which we can't offer him. Jones and Tuanzebe are also expected to leave. Do you really want us going in to this season with only three centre backs in the squad and one of those centre backs doesn't have a great injury record? That would be a complete disaster.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Can forget the height concerns (at least when it comes to attacking. We have a plan…

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[SATA]

The Ajax fans posts on him are very reassuring to read. Loads of positive traits and attributes he’ll bring to the team. Heinze was a cnut but he was a warrior on the pitch and we all used to love him for that. Now Martinez has the ball playing ability and balance to go along with that. I’m sure his new teammates will love him too

 

[youmeletsfly]

Anyone moaning about this signing will end up looking like a complete mug.

The type of player we have been sadly lacking in recent years.

Nah mate, the average caf poster will always have a different opinion, no matter how you put it.

People forget Canavaro was 1.76 and he was one of the best defenders to ever play the game, in a period where strikers weren't today's overrated trash.

He'll either replace the big headed English toddler at LB or slot right into the midfield, to replace McSauce. Anyway it's a win for ETH.

 

[redcucumber]

When have we ever done this? All the big names we bought were clearly for footballing reasons.

It's surely undeniable that Woodward had a penchant for attempting to build his own line of 'galacticos' at United. Varane, Falcão, Di Maria, Sanchez, Ronaldo, Schweinsteiger, Pogba. All of these were signed with a big eye on what their name represented with little consideration to how they would fit in, whether they were financially sound options relative to other players we could have gone for (that our rivals often ended up signing). It was absolutely a policy of Woodward's and a big part of why we were such a mess under his stewardship.

 

[V.O.]

It's all youtube scouting of course, but the more I see of him, the more I fecking love this signing. Absolutely love the way he defends - seems to be brilliant at using balance, leverage and his low centre of gravity in physical duels against bigger forwards, and his brain just seems to so clearly work that much faster than most of the clowns we have now. Seems to be thinking a couple of moves ahead of the attacker most of the time.

There seem to be plenty of clips of him leaning into a striker at just the right angle to start to bring him down, anticipating the forward going down to claim the free kick, and easing off the contact a split second before he has chance to - leaving the big striker on his arse looking like a prat.

He's basically the exact opposite of everything that's wrong with Harry fecking Maguire - and that's before you consider his ability on the ball which is probably the best bit.

 

[Trex]

Are we there yet?

 

[sullydnl]

We need a centre back. Bailly is injury prone and wants to leave as he wants regular first team football which we can't offer him. Jones and Tuanzebe are also expected to leave. Do you really want us going in to this season with only three centre backs in the squad and one of those centre backs doesn't have a great injury record? That would be a complete disaster.

Arguably two given Lindelof has had ongoing back issues. Think he withdrew from the national team over the summer to give himself more recovery time.

And that's without getting into how good those CBs are even when fit, or whether they're a fit for what ETH needs from such a key position in our system.

 

[the hea]

Are we there yet?

Apparently they have ran into some kind of problem during his medical.

Spoiler

 

[RedRob]

I'm hoping that we have "overpaid" for Martinez as part of a deal to get Anthony too. I heard Anthony has a big sell on clause so it would be in Ajax interest to reduce the fee on Anthony and add some onto Martinez.

The fact the negotiations and price seemed to stall and then increase was maybe us agreeing a "bundle" price for the pair and structuring it in a way to maximise profit for Ajax.

Ajax buying some support for the right wing makes me hope that's the case.

Been a while since we've seen the "Smokescreen!" argument on here.
Next up: the FDJ bids have been a smokescreen for signing Pedri.

 

[DutchSerb]

Anyone moaning about this signing will end up looking like a complete mug.

The type of player we have been sadly lacking in recent years.

Mascherano was 1.74m and he turned out pretty good for all the clubs he's played for. Martinez will be fine in ETH's system. I'm very happy with this signing and am fully convinced he will perform well.

 

[r0663664]

Martinez is a fantastic signing. With FDJ and Eriksen, we will see alot of balls over the top. If we have willing runners, these boys will find them. I think front 3 will definitely benefit immensely. McFred, Maguire, Varane, Shaw and all doesn't have that ability. We only see occasional pass from Lindeloft. These signings will transfer our play. If ETH is worried about bigger team, then he can always move Martinez to DM and throw in Maguire with Varane. I really feel Martinez enable ETH to try different tactics. I am really excited this season, I think we will finish just behind City and Pool with ETH as coach.