I think people will have to learn to accept that ETH's preferred style of line-up is likely one that will look "light" to a lot of people. If you hire the type of manager who plays a 5ft10 & 5ft9 CB pairing or gets to a CL semi-final with a midfield of FDJ, Schone & VDB then that's what you get.
From that perspective FDJ is obviously a better fit than Rice, even if Rice makes the team look more robust, so.... *shrugs*
As much as this might be correct - ETH used Alvarez, a more or less sole ballwinner with way less abilities on the ball than Rice, the complete last season. So the idea that such a player isn't happening in ETHs system might sound good but has a flaw - it isn't real. FDJ or not, we need somebody who is a reliable ball winner, I don't want Rice as he is way too expensive, but we shouldn't think that we are the first team who gets it done without a ball winner.He prefers technical ability over physical.
You mean like schone / de jong? Neither of those are ball winnersAs much as this might be correct - ETH used Alvarez, a more or less sole ballwinner with way less abilities on the ball than Rice, the complete last season. So the idea that such a player isn't happening in ETHs system might sound good but has a flaw - it isn't real. FDJ or not, we need somebody who is a reliable ball winner, I don't want Rice as he is way too expensive, but we shouldn't think that we are the first team who gets it done without a ball winner.
If they're gonna sign a deal like that the last couple of years have to be optional with the player's agreement necessary to activate it. Protects their client in case of injury while also giving them the option to move easier to another club.Much like Harry Kane, I don’t know what ever possesses these super talented young players (at the time of signing) to sign huge, 5-6 year deals. What kind of competent agent allows a client to sign a deal that long?
I understand he likes West Ham, but he’s trapped himself there and is wasting years of his best playing days. Just like Kane.
Transfermarkt lists him as a DM. And while fbref indicates, he is more of a CM than a CDM, he seemed to play a ball winner role. And again, we don't have to go back to 2018 to get an idea of ETHs ideas, we can just have a look at last year.You mean like schone / de jong? Neither of those are ball winners
Huge salaries I‘d assume. You get a huge salary (what usually only big clubs give to their best players or at least close to it) and in return you sign a long term contract.Much like Harry Kane, I don’t know what ever possesses these super talented young players (at the time of signing) to sign huge, 5-6 year deals. What kind of competent agent allows a client to sign a deal that long?
I understand he likes West Ham, but he’s trapped himself there and is wasting years of his best playing days. Just like Kane.
A Google search tells me he’s on £156k a week. I suppose as a 21 year old or whatever he was when he signed it that’s probably hard to turn down. But if an agent is doing their job they should be insisting on the last year or two being an option on the players side.Huge salaries I‘d assume. You get a huge salary (what usually only big clubs give to their best players or at least close to it) and in return you sign a long term contract.
If they get that much money it‘s probably easy for them not to think about what probably may happen in 2-3 years.
Apart from the big salary at a club you’ve grown at (You mention the salary Google says, but I also imagine those big 5-6 year deals are heavily incentivised with sign-on fees/loyalty increases as the seasons go on etc…) — there’s a big level of security attached to staying at your club.Much like Harry Kane, I don’t know what ever possesses these super talented young players (at the time of signing) to sign huge, 5-6 year deals. What kind of competent agent allows a client to sign a deal that long?
I understand he likes West Ham, but he’s trapped himself there and is wasting years of his best playing days. Just like Kane.
Good post.Apart from the big salary at a club you’ve grown at (You mention the salary Google says, but I also imagine those big 5-6 year deals are heavily incentivised with sign-on fees/loyalty increases as the seasons go on etc…) — there’s a big level of security attached to staying at your club.
Rice at West Ham is automatically in a state of neutral or positive PR in the minds of other opposition fans, media, and television pundits. Nobody gives a feck really whenever he has a poor game, and we all laud him when he has a stormer. The second he moves to United, Chelsea, Arsenal — every performance is micro-analysed, a 6.5/10 becomes a 5, his status in the NT becomes questioned… and so on and so forth.
Not necessarily saying this is the right move (I don’t think it is really) and there may be a question of ill counsel or a lack of footballing drive/ambition to be at the top — but I think there is certainly some sense in the Kane’s and the Rice’s of the world signing big deals at young ages.
I think it's really promising we aren't being linked with him. I actually think he's a very good player but he isn't what we need, and I think the lack of speculation about us chasing him is a good sign that ETH not only recognises what we need, but has the influence over the transfer decisions the club are making. In recent seasons it felt like there was a disconnect between the manager, directors and scouting team, and if we had a manager who didn't have a clear vision and strong voice I reckon we'd have ended up signing Rice and expecting the manager to make do with what's he's given.Every time I see this thread bumped it makes me cry. Thank feck we ain't getting this clown.
It's a trade off; life long financial security against more options in the future.Much like Harry Kane, I don’t know what ever possesses these super talented young players (at the time of signing) to sign huge, 5-6 year deals. What kind of competent agent allows a client to sign a deal that long?
I understand he likes West Ham, but he’s trapped himself there and is wasting years of his best playing days. Just like Kane.
Maybe it's insurance against injury while knowing that contracts mean very little in so many circumstances. If, for instance, Newcastle or City had come in with a bid of, say, £200m this summer, West Ham would have, in my opinion, snapped their arm off. Why wouldn't a player go for safety like any other employee? Especially, as you say, if they are at the club they love/supportMuch like Harry Kane, I don’t know what ever possesses these super talented young players (at the time of signing) to sign huge, 5-6 year deals. What kind of competent agent allows a client to sign a deal that long?
I understand he likes West Ham, but he’s trapped himself there and is wasting years of his best playing days. Just like Kane.
Give me some of what you are smokingWe'll be ahead of Chelsea in everything come next summer (and 2024), so if we want him he'll come.
Would be very strong and can compete against the top midfielders… the only worry is though when are we getting de Jong? Won’t be this season by the looks of it, he might be tempted next season if we get into the champions league.Unless West Ham kick on this year I’d imagine he’ll look to move next summer.
As I said earlier in the thread, assuming we can get De Jong over the line, Rice/Frenkie/Bruno as a 3 is incredibly strong.
They look an absolute shambles right now and Tuchel is openly throwing the side under the bus. The honeymoon is over.Give me some of what you are smoking
Yeah ideally Erik can find someone cheaperRice would allow De Jong to roam on the pitch like back to his Ajax days or better.
De Jong needs this type of defensive protection because he isn’t a deep lying playmaker but more a roaming playmaker. So those energetic Kante type midfielders that also press further up the pitch doesn’t make sense because it leaves both midfielders likely to be up the pitch rather than having any being static as a deep lying playmaker or ball winning midfielder
Whether Ten Hag believes Rice is worth the money that he would cost is a different question and he might find a cheaper option.
For Me Ten Hag see’s the CB/CDM hybrid player as vital to his tactics.Yeah ideally Erik can find someone cheaper
So say we do still get De Jong this summer (not convinced) then how would that work with our current setup thenFor Me Ten Hag see’s the CB/CDM hybrid player as vital to his tactics.
It’s the player that allows De Jong to roam and let our back 2 turn in to a back 3 with both full backs able to get forward too.
It allows us to play with 352 attacks with even 2 out of 3 CB’s ball playing CB’s from deep.
Maybe I am biased because I love the way Rice plays CB/CDM and basically let’s Soucek “roam” - but I do think he is the best available in this position.
I’m not a scout though and I’ve heard of players like Noah Mbamba who is 16 and Belgian.
Ten Hag on Frenkie De Jong & Freedom :
Frenkie is the biggest talent, etc etc. Well yes. But, where? In midfield? Ok, but which role?
"His quality is that he makes the forwards perform better. He is a wanderer, an adventurer, he’s always on the move, like a shark. With the ball, often, but also without the ball. So if you put him on 6 [defensive midfield], he’s away too often. But you need to give him freedom, otherwise you can’t the best out of him.
"It wasn’t an easy puzzle, so I decided to play with two number 6s and only one attacking mid. And in this way, we can also dominate the half space, and force opponents to choose."
See, Frenkie didn’t fail at Barcelona because of Busquets- because De Jong roams and would leave no CDM in the midfield of Barcelona. It’s more because Barcelona didn’t play with 2 6’s and let one guard the back line whilst letting another roam.
Guarding the back line is literally Rice - the player that stops shots appearing on your goalposts and gives the freedom for everyone else to attack.
Martinez who has also had experience in playing as a Cb/CDM hybrid player for Ten Hag before Alvarez came.So say we do still get De Jong this summer (not convinced) then how would that work with our current setup then
The mighty Chelsea that finished on 74 pts last year, no way we can overtake them, right?Give me some of what you are smoking
Not until we address some of problems in first XIThe mighty Chelsea that finished on 74 pts last year, no way we can overtake them, right?
So disregarding Rangnick's time here (a very inept manager who was all-talk no show), we have a team that finished on 74 pts 2 seasons ago, added Sancho, Varane, Martínez, Malacia, Eriksen and probably de Jong to the team, replaced Ole with the best possible manager who's likely one of the best in the world...yeah, I think we can comfortably aim for 75-80 pts which will likely see us get 3rd...whether that'll be ahead of Chelsea or not...probably, but we can't tell. No squad is perfect, every team needs new signings in new positions. We badly need a CM, but that's probably getting sorted this summer, we need a right winger, need a striker, need a right-back, IMO we'll need a goalkeeper soon as well..but this squad is much better than what it achieved last season. If Ronaldo leaves as well that would be an even bigger advantage going into the next season...but that's unlikely to happen at this point.Not until we address some of problems in first XI
OK will hold you to that then, so do you see us getting of any those positions this summerSo disregarding Rangnick's time here (a very inept manager who was all-talk no show), we have a team that finished on 74 pts 2 seasons ago, added Sancho, Varane, Martínez, Malacia, Eriksen and probably de Jong to the team, replaced Ole with the best possible manager who's likely one of the best in the world...yeah, I think we can comfortably aim for 75-80 pts which will likely see us get 3rd...whether that'll be ahead of Chelsea or not...probably, but we can't tell. No squad is perfect, every team needs new signings in new positions. We badly need a CM, but that's probably getting sorted this summer, we need a right winger, need a striker, need a right-back, IMO we'll need a goalkeeper soon as well..but this squad is much better than what it achieved last season. If Ronaldo leaves as well that would be an even bigger advantage going into the next season...but that's unlikely to happen at this point.
Mark my words, United will be a much more attractive destination than Chelsea in 12 months time and we'll be the ones deciding whether Rice comes here or not.
I forgot to mention that even though both Sterling and Koulibaly are great signings for them in my opinion, they've lost 2 important defenders and will likely lose 2 more...their squad is not even that great anyways. I'd take Reece James and Kovacic from them but I'm not too fussed about any of their other players.OK will hold you to that then, so do you see us getting of any those positions this summer
Probably with Fred and someone ahead of them.So say we do still get De Jong this summer (not convinced) then how would that work with our current setup then
Last season team underachieved for sure.So disregarding Rangnick's time here (a very inept manager who was all-talk no show), we have a team that finished on 74 pts 2 seasons ago, added Sancho, Varane, Martínez, Malacia, Eriksen and probably de Jong to the team, replaced Ole with the best possible manager who's likely one of the best in the world...yeah, I think we can comfortably aim for 75-80 pts which will likely see us get 3rd...whether that'll be ahead of Chelsea or not...probably, but we can't tell. No squad is perfect, every team needs new signings in new positions. We badly need a CM, but that's probably getting sorted this summer, we need a right winger, need a striker, need a right-back, IMO we'll need a goalkeeper soon as well..but this squad is much better than what it achieved last season. If Ronaldo leaves as well that would be an even bigger advantage going into the next season...but that's unlikely to happen at this point.
Mark my words, United will be a much more attractive destination than Chelsea in 12 months time and we'll be the ones deciding whether Rice comes here or not.
Chelsea won't pay that for a DM, there are many players around the world that can do what he does for less, if West ham thought anyone would pay that they must be smoking on some weird guff.Good player. Would have loved him at United but he’s been priced out by West Ham. I see him going to Chelsea next summer for around £100 million.
Who is this player that does what Rice can do?Chelsea won't pay that for a DM, there are many players around the world that can do what he does for less, if West ham thought anyone would pay that they must be smoking on some weird guff.
When has De Jong played with the kind of player you are describing?Who is this player that does what Rice can do?
Some people just don’t see his defensive repositioning through the CB’s to the CDM on the pitch so he looks like he does shit all to these people simply because they don’t see or understand the tactic in comparison to the Kante or Tchouameni type CDM that is much more obvious to the eye with the way they are pressing all over the pitch at an incredible tempo.
What Rice does is quite rare due to how he plays - because it’s primarily due to how he reads the game and positions himself proactively rather than running around the pitch reactively.
Anyway, who is this CB/CDM hybrid player that can give a player like De Jong freedom to be as deep as a CB but as further up the pitch as a CAM?
1+1 does not always equal to 2. From the players you'e mentioned, we have actually added Sancho and Varane last season but got worst. In terms of quality of squad we have add Martinez, Malacia and Eriksen this summer, but also loss Pogba, Matic, Greenwood, Cavani and Lingard etc from the team that finished 74 pts. Of course, we will have to see how ETH manages our team, I think thats the key to everything, to which I believe we would definitely improve in long run.So disregarding Rangnick's time here (a very inept manager who was all-talk no show), we have a team that finished on 74 pts 2 seasons ago, added Sancho, Varane, Martínez, Malacia, Eriksen and probably de Jong to the team, replaced Ole with the best possible manager who's likely one of the best in the world...yeah, I think we can comfortably aim for 75-80 pts which will likely see us get 3rd...whether that'll be ahead of Chelsea or not...probably, but we can't tell. No squad is perfect, every team needs new signings in new positions. We badly need a CM, but that's probably getting sorted this summer, we need a right winger, need a striker, need a right-back, IMO we'll need a goalkeeper soon as well..but this squad is much better than what it achieved last season. If Ronaldo leaves as well that would be an even bigger advantage going into the next season...but that's unlikely to happen at this point.
Mark my words, United will be a much more attractive destination than Chelsea in 12 months time and we'll be the ones deciding whether Rice comes here or not.
