You think Lingard wanted to stay then?
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Fair enough I get what you're saying but which club buys 1-2 players for an Interim manager? And while said club is probably already a fair way down the road in discussions with a prospective new permanent manager?
Interim managers are brought into work with what they have to try to salvage a season. If Ralf started huffing and checked out because he wasn't allowed to start building his own team a month into a 6 month job then that's a bit unprofessional to say the least.
Yeah one of the many times he created negative press for the club with an ill thought out public comment.
Again irrelevant to the point
I didn’t say that, did I.
With even a modicum of man management ability Lingard could easily have been pulled in and I highly doubt he’d have had issue with being told that he was required until the end of the season due to the unforeseen circumstance. Instead what we got was Ralf freezing him out (then actually needing him again when it came to playing actual games, a part of football I suspect at times Ralf forgot existed as it got in the way of his talk show aspirations) and being hostile towards him.
Regardless of what happened Jesse was gone this summer, Ralf saw a fly in the corner of one room of his house and decided the best method of solving this problem was dropping Little Boy on the house.
Possibly, but lets be honest the issues with Lingard were there from when he was promised games under Ole and didn't get them.
Lingard had said he was not available for selection and then after Ralf said this, it turned out Murtough had given Lingard time off (and not told the manager), so if we're talking about man management....
Basically the whole thing was a clusterfeck and Murtough himself does not come out of it clean at all
Probably because he has a terrible attitude and is complete shite.
Moyes made it work for 4 months.
I thought we were discussing why the Rangnick/Murtagh relationship soured are we not?
In which case it's very relevant.
No I said a made a point that on Ralfs side the Jan window was probably a key point. Its irrelavant whether or not WE think he should have got reinforcements or not.
No, for me it's very relevant because if he was being unreasonable in asking for players no club would sign for an Interim manager. Then the breakdown in the relationship was Ralf's fault if he started huffing because he didn't get what he wanted.
We can't just say ''oh he wasn't talking to Murtagh because he wasn't backed in the transfer window'' and leave it at that without discussing the context of why the club didn't buy the players an Interim manager decided he wanted.
Its only unreasonable if he was told from the start when he was hired that the Jan window was out of the question. We know though from the first press conference that's not the case.
But overall to me its irrelevant, because Murtough also has reasons for the relationship to sour, I only offered another perspective.
Both are at fault too for differing reasons.
Yeah no club is signing 2 players at a cost of probably £60m+ for an Interim manager in January mate. So yeah his demands were unreasonable.
In his first press conference I'm pretty sure he said he was excited to work with all the attacking talent at the club and that the squad was probably too big.
Even Moyes was far better than this fradulent wanker.
60m+?
He is not the only interim manager to work in the PL, and some have made Jan transfers, so I'm not 100% sure we can say the demands were unreasonable, but again that is only our opinion.
The fact is it only really depends on what was agreed when he was hired for the role. You probably want to watch the press conference again, the Jan window was specifically mentioned.
He wanted a DM and have found 2 for around 10 millions.
But better to give that money to Glazers.Can not have them starving.
I'm not saying it hasn't happened some clubs will buy longer term targets while an Interim manager happens to be in place. Other clubs might have at some point signed players specifically for an Interim however unlikely that sounds. But I highly doubt any club has ever hired an Interim manager in December and then signed two players specifically for them the next month.
Rangnick demanding 2 players a month into the job smacks of him not realizing he was only the Interim manager and wasn't the DOF either.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the club didn't agree to buy him 2 players in January that the permanent manager might not want 5 months later.
So in his first presser did he say there was lots of attacking talent at the club and that the squad was probably too big as it is?
https://www.football365.com/news/ralf-rangnick-unveiling-first-press-conference-man-utd
I'm confused about this demanding of players, but your point here about "him not realising" speaks to whatever was agreed between himself and Murtough/the club.
As to the next point, I'll go out on a limb and say the club probably didn't tell him he wouldn't be backed in the Jan window if it was required.
The point is if the club had no intention of making Jan signings due to wanting to save the budget for the permanent manager, then they should have said that from the off, that did not look like that was communicated.
If it was then clearly Ralf is a bit crazy, he was openly talking about needing a new profile of midfielder and needing a DM right from the off.
Now I am in agreement, we should just wait till summer, but that's not really the point here when it comes to how a relationship breaks down.
Moyes didn’t rebuild clubs though or have 3 C‘s you see.
Incredible some on here think the good name of the plc should be prioritised over getting results on the pitch. No wonder the club didn't want Conte, he would have gone ballistic on these corporate clowns.
Clearly the Glazers have some of the fanbase hook, line and sinker.
Clearly the Glazers have some of the fanbase hook, line and sinker.
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Under Mourinho and Ole, the players downed tools.
Under Rangnick, it was the manager who downed tools.
Ralf really didn't care by the end, did he?
My point was that it seemed like Ralf had plans to build a team as if he was either the permanent manager (let's not forget he said he might recommend himself as manager) and/or the DOF. When in fact he held neither of those positions, and it tracks with the other reports and rumours we've heard that the club had to tell him several times to concentrate on managing the first team.
Maybe the club weren't clear in their desire that they didn't want to make January signings, I don't know. But I mean in the quotes I included in my last post from his first press conference. He specifically says the following, that doesn't sound like a manager who's been given encouragement that he can sign players in January to me.
I seem to remember a lot of Ralf fans on here banging on about the 'bigger picture' and short term results didn't matter because we were only in the first stage of Ralf Rangnicks' masterplan to rebuild the club. What was it getting 4th would only 'Paper over the cracks'?
Two DM's for £10m? Bargain, which 2 DM's?
Or maybe the club left the door open in case Rangnick's start made it possible he'll get the manager's job full time.
Yeah after hiring Solskjaer a tad prematurely and how it ended up I doubt repeating that was ever on their minds. They were already in discussions with Ten Hag in January.
Question is, what did they tell Rangnick? I remember him saying early on that him staying as manager is possible.
There may well have been discussions, but to say keeping Ralf was always out of the running is unlikely, even if he was only ever just an outside shot.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’d say even as early as January it was quite clear that Ralf wasn’t ever going to cut it as a manager with how often he was picking fights with his own players. He was definitely a fallback plan if Ten Hag and Poch said no though, I would think.
Scary fecking thought that....
Going by the reports that he was barely on speaking terms with Murtough, I don't think would've happened.
We'd probably have gone for Brendan Rodgers.
Oh I’m talking about when he first came in when I say that. I think it was long gone by February.
Brendan probably was on the shortlist, worryingly.
That's completely unfair. The players downed tools from the moment he walked in and he had no leverage, unlike Solskjaer who was defended by everyone associated with the club even when it was obvious it was going to end in tears and had the security of a long-term contract (like Mourinho).
A well organised club buys players because it makes sense, regardless of interim manager or not. A new manager is not going to go say oh FFS you brought me a DM and that paid for itself by us now being the in the Champions League.
Its so blatantly clear he should have been backed, regardless of what you might think. Imagine the additional value for being in the Champions League...
1) Higher squad value
2) Higher morale and therefore easier contract renewals and linked to the above a higher squad value is sustained
3) Higher sponsorship deals
4) Prize money for each stage of the CL
5) Higher demand for merchandise and tickets
6) Greater ability to attract new players and staff and at more reasonable salaries, I.e. no mercenary tax!
7) Higher quality players have more value and are less likely to drag the team down so longer term value
8) Greater success leads to more fans and greater long term value
9) Higher profit projections can result in lower interest rates on loans
10) All the above results in higher stock value
There are a bunch of other things like the above that I've not even listed. The £60m becomes totally irrelevant if you invest wisely and it makes the difference.
The interim manager should at most be listened to as one opinion, an influencer. A director of football or transfers, etc should be working out who we need and when. We shouldn't need a full rethink for every new manager.
He said he might recommend himself for the job (as he'd done in the past), don't think anyone else at the club was thinking that way though.
Had he won the Champions League I'd say he would have got the job but that's probably the only scenario that would have lead to him being hired permanently. But as you say by January it was clear he was out of his depth in a job as big as United, on and off the pitch.
And it didn't make sense to buy players for this Interim manager when the new manager is clearly going after different types of players to the ones Rangnick was rumoured to be after. We haven't even been strongly linked to any DM's this summer. It's possible Ten Hag isn't prioritising one this window.
And let's be honest here no DM was going to bridge a 14 point gap that would have seen us beat Spurs to 4th mate. Rangnick just couldn't get a tune out of this squad almost to a man, a new DM probably would have been the same.
We didn't lose out on CL football because the club chose not to buy a DM in January. We missed out because the club hired an over the hill manager who was more interested in auditioning to be the DOF.
Wow this thread still has oxygen somehow 
Hopefully a new season will bring some of those with a Ralf complex closure and the hope of brighter times ahead.
Hopefully a new season will bring some of those with a Ralf complex closure and the hope of brighter times ahead.
I’m convinced we would have never had this shitshow of the transfer window if he stayed in the planned role. He called out the club on many things including needing 11 new players, sorting the Ronaldo drama early into the January etc. yet here we are. This club does not want to live in reality and are looking for their get out of the jail card.
Ten Hag must be feeling like a right tit for ignoring his advice now.
He said we needed 10 new players. He was right. No wonder the Glazers paid him off.
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