Being Realistic - Where do we go from here?

[bosnian_red]

If we're realistic, the Glazers aren't going to sell. That's a fantasy unfortunately. So where do we go from here? To me it seems clear that the board won't financially support the manager enough to build a squad that he needs, or revamp the squad to at least bring freshness and a new mood in which is necessary right now. That won't happen. Its a few in, a few out. We can't build a Pep style system, a Ten Hag style system without him being backed to change the squad how he wants. So our ceiling is capped if we can't do that. So what happens from here? What is our best route forward with that in mind? What is going to happen this season with the club? The manager won't have a chance without a big last 3 weeks in the window, and a quantity of changes are needed just to change the mood, and I can't see that happening.

You look at a form table, we are in the relegation zone if you look at the past half season of league games. We've been hammered in the past 7 away games with 7 straight defeats, a goal difference of 2-20. The way this season has started... Who is to say this won't continue? We've done feck all in the transfer window and unless we bring in another 3-4 players and ship another 5 out to just change the atmosphere, where is any win going to come from?

I genuinely don't know what to expect from us this season. I can see a scenario where Ten Hag just walks, and in that case, who the feck takes on this job next? If it fails with ten hag, we are genuinely an untouchable job IMO. Maybe/probably being dramatic, but it just feels different this time, and not in a good way.

 

[Abraxas]

It's a difficult problem to solve in terms of long term aims and achieving them. But I think there are 3 main aspects. This window, the manager, and the recruitment moving forward.

The club has to get in at least a couple of signings that the manager wants between now and the end of the window to be able to say they've given him any sort of chance. It is not going to be perfect window as even if we secure some exceptional signings, we have blundered in preparation and now start off on a terrible foot. But it's better than the alternative - no signings or bad ones.

The manager has to learn, and pretty damn quickly. That's coaching, you have to get a tune out of what you've got or you face consequences. He needs to realise what the PL demands and who he is most likely to be able to rely on. Quite simply, he has to find a formula that works enough to start building some kind of platform, even if it's not utopian football or ending in a great season. We can't keep getting battered.

This season the recruitment department and the hierarchy need to sort it out, and very quickly. We need to be going into future windows with profiles that are required, lists of players of all age brackets, ideally with a preference for players desperate to come that are potential improvers. We need some joined up thinking.

 

[Ceteris]

The solutions can be difficult or easy depending on a few factors.

We us fans need to face the reality of where we are now as a club and the type of players we can attract.

During yesterday's game if you swapped the players around then united have players who actually fought for the team on the pitch

We need players who will work hard on the pitch for the team, if we step away from big names and scout properly we can find these players

Once the foundations are set, we can then look at luxury additions

I remember at some point under Fergie we had 4 quality attacking players, the rest worked for the team.

We all need to temper our expectations while we go through that period. Liverpool did it, Arsenal and Spurs seem to be on the right path doing it

We can too

 

[El Capitano]

I would say the championship.

 

[Leftback99]

I've never bought into the idea that Ten Hag was the only possible saviour so if he 'walked out' (he won't) someone else would soon take his place.

Glazers or not top player recruitment is more important than any manager. Until we get that right and stop wasting tens of millions then we'll never catch up.

It seems the most likely scenario to me that we're going to sink to being a 6th-10th team for a number of years. At some point surely it will twig what the successful teams above us are doing right behind the scenes and we'll start trying to catch up.

 

[Conor]

With proper scouting and ignoring marketability, you could sign a squad of players better suited to our manager than what we have now, for the cost of 2 of our 'marquee' signings we usually make. It's not about money, it's about the structure of the club.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Ten Hag will get more out of these players in the coming weeks I believe. He is a good coach and good coaches make teams more than the sum of their parts, they are currently less.

And on a broader level we keep executing our plan, hopefully it improves now that we have gutted the clubs structure and can start adding good people back in above the manager

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Play the kids.

Shaw
Slab head
AwB
Bruno
Rashford
Scott

Should not start anymore.

Spend 200 more million on quality.

 

[M Bison]

I get that we need fresh blood, but without lighting a fire under the existing crop and getting them putting a shift in, we’ll languish in mid table and continue to see results like yesterday imo.

Even if we’d had FDJ in CM yesterday, we’d have still got slapped, the answer is the existing squad, which is full of internationals and players who previously played to a very high standard, need to go back to basics and start working hard.

Pointless having talent without hard work, whcih is exactly where we are now.

 

[bosnian_red]

I get that we need fresh blood, but without lighting a fire under the existing crop and getting them putting a shift in, we’ll languish in mid table and continue to see results like yesterday imo.

Even if we’d had FDJ in CM yesterday, we’d have still got slapped, the answer is the existing squad, which is full of internationals and players who previously played to a very high standard, need to go back to basics and start working hard.

Pointless having talent without hard work, whcih is exactly where we are now.

Yes but the current squad is in a toxic mental state. The only way to change it is to shake up the squad with sales and new players. Even if they're of a similar quality. Its just so broken right now mentally that the second something goes wrong, they all drop and last seasons shit comes in. Its too late to change it now anyway. Unless we sell 5 players and bring in another 3 or 4, it's all going to be shite.

 

[RedIke]

Time/Patience

New players/Play some kids.

Not in that order. But the ownership will not change.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Play the kids.

Shaw
Slab head
AwB
Bruno
Rashford
Scott

Should not start anymore.

Spend 200 more million on quality.

We’d get relegated - it’s not even a vintage set of “kids” - didn't the U21s get thrashed by Palace U21s the other day?

 

[Mike Smalling]

Get a proper Director of Football in working closely with Erik ten Hag to build a squad that fits his playstyle. Impose a much harsher wage policy, and ruthlessly get rid of the players that are not good enough and/or are overpaid. Give youth a chance. Accept that we might not get CL football for a few seasons.

 

[friendlytramp]

We’ve got maybe £100m transfer budget left

Terminate Ronaldos contract
Accept we can’t buy FDJ
Sell Rashford to PSG (inc part ex for Navas) + £40m
Sell AWB £10m
Sell Bailly £20m

Buy Rabiot £15m
Buy Tielemans £25m
Buy Antony £60m
Buy Denst £20m
Buy Gakpo £25m
Buy that tall Austrian £25m

team rebuilt sufficiently to compete to some extent this year and start a proper long term project

 

[BeltUp]

I honestly have no idea. I feel like we are doomed for a good while.

 

[Ayoba]

No where, more misery awaits us. More 4-0 losses. Out of all the cups by the new year.

 

[jasT1981]

We're rock bottom... literally.

So we can only go up from here.


Right........??

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Shift out deadwood, play more youth, don't get relegated

 

[GaryLifo]

It'll get a far lot worse before it gets even worse than that

 

[M Bison]

Yes but the current squad is in a toxic mental state. The only way to change it is to shake up the squad with sales and new players. Even if they're of a similar quality. Its just so broken right now mentally that the second something goes wrong, they all drop and last seasons shit comes in. Its too late to change it now anyway. Unless we sell 5 players and bring in another 3 or 4, it's all going to be shite.

Exactly, it’s too late and another 5on top of the 3 incomings we’ve already seen was never going to happen. ETH simply has to get more out of the existing squad, there’s quality in the team and quality in the youth ranks, it’s his job to bring it out of them.

 

[Real Madras]

It’s pretty simple. Give Paul Mitchell whatever he wants and let him decide how he wishes to build a back room recruitment team. We need to be talking to him.

 

[rochdale31]

Aston Villa 2015-16 season
Leeds United 2003-04 season
Schalke 2019-20 season

 

[Trequarista10]

Assuming we aren't going to see the owners make a massive investment, I envisage that their strategy is to adopt a Dortmund or Red Bull style approach. Implement a system, and give young players who fit the system a chance to be a regular starter. This will help convince further young players to join as it would be beneficial for their career, so we sign them cheaper and younger than they would cost if we bought them after they've already had a big move and proven themselves to be ready for the next step. Sign a few mature seasoned pros who can provide a guiding influence to the young players, with a small number of top tier, big money signings mixed in. With the ambition that unlike Dortmund or Red Bull clubs, we won't have to sell them when they are early 20s.

 

[redcucumber]

Liverpool forced Gillett and Hicks out. I know the situation was slightly more dire as they had plunged Liverpool into serious financial insecurity, but can't we at least try?

 

[Lentwood]

We can't keep talking about "no money being made available", loads of money has been made available but we have poured it down the drain.

I would say there are six players in our "regular" starting XI who fundamentally cannot play progressive, possesion-based football. For me, those are DDG, Dalot, Fred, McTominay and Ronaldo and Rashford.

To be clear, I am not talking here about quality/technical ability necessarily, I am talking about their basic suitability to play that kind of system.

Dalot is just rubbish, lucky to even be at a Premier League team in my opinion. Poor defender, poor in possession, dreadful attacking stats and contribution.

Fred and McTominay are both far too bad on the ball and too "brainless". We cant play a possession-based system with two CMs who cant pass. I like to think that is common sense and we all agree with that.

DDG basically has every problem in the book. Again, I think this is fairly obvious and universally agreed upon.

Ronaldo does not have the legs at 37 to press effectively. Scores goals but we must realise its not 1999 and simply looking at 'league goals scored' every season is no longer the sole criteria used to judge a CF.

Rashford is poor on the ball and doesnt press with any kind of intensity. Again, I think most people have accepted this.

The rest might not be the "ideal" choices, or the best players in their respective positions...but I do believe we have the options to make it work.

So that means we need to prioritise replacements in those six positions above. It doesnt really matter what order we do it because each position is equally problematic...however I personally would have kept Henderson and would start Elanga over Rashford. Again, neither ideal long-term but more fundamentally suited to playing the way we want to play.

So I would be looking to sign two CMs, one RB and one CF in this window (being realistic).

If and when we do that, and IF we make the right choices, we can start looking at playing in a "progressive" style. Personally, until we can replace those players, I think trying to play progressive is suicidal and we should revert to simpler, slightly more pragmatic tactics until we can fix the glaring problems.

In one sense, we are a million miles off...but in another, it's theoretically six good transfers and good management/coaching by ETH and his team.

 

[devilish]

Maximum Benefit through minimum effort . That's what United should do

A- Accept that this season is probably ruined. Give ETH a free seasonal pass as long as he give ample space to youths and FFS lets avoid engaging ourselves in panic buys
B- Sack Murtough and Fletcher. They are clearly not good enough and would redirect the fans anger to those who quite frankly deserve it rather then the manager.
C- Hire top people in the job. Rangnick is a top Sporting director who knows United's problems well by now. Mitchell is one of the best head of recruitment around and is a local lad. These sort of signings are necessary and will get the fans buzzing as much or even more then us signing FDJ
D- Embrace for a busy January sales both ins and outs. Paratici had shown that it is possible to sign bargains in January that can turn things around. We need these sort of people

 

[The_Midfielder]

Monday morning
Ronaldo out
Maguire out
AWB, Dalot out
Mct, fred out
rashford out

Buy 6-7 players and let's start..
This is what we should have done before preseason

 

[Scriblerus]

Any guesses what was agreed between ETH and the club? He comes from a team with a great track record of developing young players. We have a lot of promising young players. My guess is there's some plan for the next three years to bring them on as the core of a new squad. We won't be chequebook first.

 

[Sweet Square]

I'm guess this season will be our lowest league finish(I could see us ending around 10th). The Europa League is the only hope we've got but I will be surprise if Ten Hag is here next season.

 

[Water Melon]

The Glazers are going to sell. Once Ronaldo leaves and we are out of CL again our finances will get even worse. A day will come when the Old Trafford prawn sandwich brigade will say enough is enough, thus forcing the rats to sell.

 

[rochdale31]

I've seen teams like the current Manchester United team before, across the board of European football. These are usually the sorts of team that would suffer relegation if decisive action isn't taken.

 

[bosnian_red]

Exactly, it’s too late and another 5on top of the 3 incomings we’ve already seen was never going to happen. ETH simply has to get more out of the existing squad, there’s quality in the team and quality in the youth ranks, it’s his job to bring it out of them.

He's never going to be able to do that if he's not able to make his decisions with the squad. Just coming out what we all knew would happen. He wanted Ronaldo gone. Glazers intervened due to his profitability. Compare that to Arteta getting rid of Aubameyang and the board reluctantly agreeing to him. Ours overpower the manager. Again. Because they think they know better or something

 

[Flying high]

Where's the money going to come from for all these purchases?

We're nearly £600m in debt with rising interest rates.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

there is no way forward the club is completely rotten.

the one and only way we get out of this is if we get a sheik in or someone with a bottomless pit of money. At the moment we simply can’t gut the squad Like we need to.

bottom line is until we get new owners that care and that can afford to bin off this team then we’re screwed and on a downward spiral.

 

[izak]

Get a proper Director of Football in working closely with Erik ten Hag to build a squad that fits his playstyle. Impose a much harsher wage policy, and ruthlessly get rid of the players that are not good enough and/or are overpaid. Give youth a chance. Accept that we might not get CL football for a few seasons.

We need this more than any new signings, we are seeing more and more players coming here and rolling their sleeves, seeing us as nothing more than a retirement home, tbh we are a shitshow, we need a reset with our approach in the market, Gun for more player under the age of 23 with aggressive and strong will to want to be nothing but the best that fits ETH plans of course.

We should be contacting most of the current players on our roster, informing their agency's that we are willing to cut our losses if they can find clubs willing to take them, if they can't we dump these players to the reserves I.e Drinkwater style until they can find a club, we should be using the Ruthless Barca or Madrid approach by forcing players out who are deemed either not good enough or surplus to requirement.

 

[slavishduke]

There is alot of problems this squad have, and posters here and good ideas how to solve them. I'd like to mention another angle that I think our squad is lacking and that is the mentality, fighting spirit. We all remember the 20/21 season, when we came from behind alot of times, but then we lost that EL final and we haven't looked the same since. It feels like we've lost our winning spirit, our will to get back up.
Our players seems to be broken as soon as something goes wrong, we can't get back up. I feel this club is lacking someone to work with these players and help with their mental state - a sports psychologist.

It seems that the top clubs are emplyoying one now. Chelsea has Tim Harkness, City has David Young, and Liverpool has Lee Richardson. Why do we not have one if even these winning clubs sees the need to have one?

 

[Castia]

It’s not just about getting new owners but the people in key positions (Murtough/Arnold/Fletcher) need replacing as well. Until they’re gone we cannot progress.

As for the players I’d fecking love it if ETH just dropped all the ego’s and played the kids. Garnacho 100% should be starting ahead of Rashford and from what I’ve seen of Zidane and Savage they can’t be worse than McFred.

 

[M Bison]

He's never going to be able to do that if he's not able to make his decisions with the squad. Just coming out what we all knew would happen. He wanted Ronaldo gone. Glazers intervened due to his profitability. Compare that to Arteta getting rid of Aubameyang and the board reluctantly agreeing to him. Ours overpower the manager. Again. Because they think they know better or something

Where have you got that info about Ronaldo? He didn’t leave because no one wanted him/could afford him, nothing to do with the Glazers (unless I missed something).

 

[bosnian_red]

Where have you got that info about Ronaldo? He didn’t leave because no one wanted him/could afford him, nothing to do with the Glazers (unless I missed something).

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Apparently Whitwell alluded to this earlier in the summer as well

 

[Water Melon]

It’s not just about getting new owners but the people in key positions (Murtough/Arnold/Fletcher) need replacing as well. Until they’re gone we cannot progress.

As for the players I’d fecking love it if ETH just dropped all the ego’s and played the kids. Garnacho 100% should be starting ahead of Rashford and from what I’ve seen of Zidane and Savage they can’t be worse than McFred.

With the new owners people in key management positions will be replaced as well. This downfall could be a blessing in disguise in fact. The lower we sink the louder the protests will get, the less money there is for the next season which will ignite a fire at OT. Then Glazers will realize that they have milked their cash cow to coma state and sell.