How we’ve fallen, we’re now being comforted by a Brighton fan
Joking aside, you are correct dude. The amount of collective pant wetting going on is nuts.
Being Realistic - Where do we go from here?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
Joking aside, you are correct dude. The amount of collective pant wetting going on is nuts.
At this point I think it's impossible to tell. As you say, so far we're in the same place that we ended last season in, and if that does not change we're not even a top half team. Experience however should teach us that the first two games in a season is rarely a microcosm of the whole season. Everton won their first three last season, Arsenal lost theirs and looked about as awful as we do now. If we suddenly click and start playing well after stinking out the opening games, that would not be particularly unusual. It's just too early to say.
But so far there are precious few signs that things could turn, and what makes it all so extremely worrying is that with last season's mess, they're already standing at the precipice. It's already last chance saloon for a lot of players, arguably for the squad as a whole. So if things don't click and turn around clearly, it's just hard to see that there's any basis for slow and gradual improvement. Our next stage on the current trajectory is logically collapse & wholesale reconstruction.
The right players bought in might play a positive part in any turnaround, but at this stage I don't think that's enough. Possibly more could be achieved by the right departures.
He won't come back sadly and the club don't seem remotely interested in approaching Mitchell now Murtough is here
And the two 8th place finishes in the season and a half under Arteta before that. And even then, it isn't guaranteed they get top four this season.
We have more financial firepower so that should expedite things. But not when we operate in the transfer market as we did this summer.
So regardless of what changes at the level above the manager, we have to accept that heavy defeats and a mid-table ish finish far from the top four is on the menu. That's what patience means in this context.
Our form the past 6 months has relegation written all over it, not just the past 2 matches. We have gaping holes in the squad as well. Only Everton are in a bigger mess. The EPL is so strong nowadays and the confidence of the squad is shot. We’re in such deep shit on and off the pitch, it might actually be better for the club in the long run if we get relegated.
If we don’t strengthen the squad before the window closes I foresee us going down.
If we don’t strengthen the squad before the window closes I foresee us going down.
If we offer Rangnick a Sporting director role then he would probably come. It would mean him being the head of the pyramid football wise. If he refuse then there are other valid people we can approach for the job.
Murtough needs to leave though and the club need to be properly restructured from that of providing jobs for the boys to being a proper club
I agree, that the only way to make things worse is to buy mediocre players for a quick fix. These players would stick around for at least another 2-3 years and clog up the team. This season is botched unless some miracle transfers happen. Murtough needs to go. Realistically Arnold is going to stay. He doesn't seem to get involved "hands on", but in my opinion the upper management has to talk to the players. He/they has/have to tell the players - especially the senior players - that their conduct is unacceptable and that from now on its going to have severe consequences.
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There are several players I’d like to get rid of ….top of the list Ronaldo, Fernandez, Rashford …their body language is appalling.
I can't understand what has happened with Bruno. When he joined us he was fantastic but last season he was pretty poor. So far this season he has been worse. Maguire was always solid, if a bit slow. Some of his crossfield passing to overlapping fullbacks superb. Rashford was inventive, Shaw indefatigable - all internationals. But now they appear to be 2nd Division level. Ship them out? Get some good money for them now and rebuild? Who'd want to join us at this moment in time? The rebuild is going to take time, will be painful but it must be done from top to bottom. Every empire declines. But clubs do return. City , Liverpool, Chelsea all came back from the depths. We shall return.
I think this approach is the only thing that could save us now (Although I'd still sign FDJ). Its open heart surgery as Ralf said, we need to be able to put in new blood in 3/4 of the team to have any chance of saving the patient.
“People are blaming Ronaldo” is something I’ve seen written a few times. I don’t think for a second United issues are all down to Ronaldo. I don’t think Ronaldo is not a top class player who has extremely high standards that we really need from more of our players. He’s also our best striker by country mile.
But it’s extremely difficult to not ask the question as to what the team loses by building a forward like around him is worth it. Uniteds collapsed form for the last 12 months has been pretty much in synch with when Ronaldo signed. For all the “he scores x goals” defensive responses, the clubs nosedive happened during most of his return. Is the partnership of United and Ronaldo just not meant to be at this time, like it’s not him or the club it’s just it’s not the right time for both player and club to be together?
He asked to leave in the summer and didn’t show up to pre season , does anybody really think that was anything other then an effort to push a move? Then he walks back into the team because our manager has absolutely no other option, how is that good for positive team culture building ?
There are rumours that some think his contract should be cancelled. Is that true ? I don’t know, but the Ronaldo is clearly a problem. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is, as the comparisons with Aubameyang and Arteta show, sometimes a manager has to drop a leading player and stick with it and the club needs to support the manager. That empowers a manager and there’s no better way of sending a warning to everybody else.
Seems to me that people want to ignore the Ronaldo situation because it’s Ronaldo. If Pogba didn’t goto pre season , asked to leave and the clubs downward spiral started pretty much soon after he joined, I don’t think he’d be afforded the same defence. In many regards , “the club tried everything to accommodate Pogba” is something that people like me would hammer at him, why does that not apply to Ronaldo? Our entire team is setup to try and make a goal chance for him.
Another thing that’s oddly ignored is that Ronaldo was not on pre season tour when the team actually looked better and the squad looked more together. Maybe it was just pre season form that means nothing or maybe it actually was a happier dressingroom without a wantaway superstar.
The way the team is playing , it may take something drastic to change momentum. Who wants to keep Ronaldo at the club? The manager or the board? Is the team better off with or without Ronaldo? To answer that question one would need a pretty comprehensive understanding of tactics and an honest understanding of what it’s costing the team to afford to make Ronaldo work. I can’t answer it, but it may very well be the superstar elephant in the room that really nobody wants to address.
But it’s extremely difficult to not ask the question as to what the team loses by building a forward like around him is worth it. Uniteds collapsed form for the last 12 months has been pretty much in synch with when Ronaldo signed. For all the “he scores x goals” defensive responses, the clubs nosedive happened during most of his return. Is the partnership of United and Ronaldo just not meant to be at this time, like it’s not him or the club it’s just it’s not the right time for both player and club to be together?
He asked to leave in the summer and didn’t show up to pre season , does anybody really think that was anything other then an effort to push a move? Then he walks back into the team because our manager has absolutely no other option, how is that good for positive team culture building ?
There are rumours that some think his contract should be cancelled. Is that true ? I don’t know, but the Ronaldo is clearly a problem. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is, as the comparisons with Aubameyang and Arteta show, sometimes a manager has to drop a leading player and stick with it and the club needs to support the manager. That empowers a manager and there’s no better way of sending a warning to everybody else.
Seems to me that people want to ignore the Ronaldo situation because it’s Ronaldo. If Pogba didn’t goto pre season , asked to leave and the clubs downward spiral started pretty much soon after he joined, I don’t think he’d be afforded the same defence. In many regards , “the club tried everything to accommodate Pogba” is something that people like me would hammer at him, why does that not apply to Ronaldo? Our entire team is setup to try and make a goal chance for him.
Another thing that’s oddly ignored is that Ronaldo was not on pre season tour when the team actually looked better and the squad looked more together. Maybe it was just pre season form that means nothing or maybe it actually was a happier dressingroom without a wantaway superstar.
The way the team is playing , it may take something drastic to change momentum. Who wants to keep Ronaldo at the club? The manager or the board? Is the team better off with or without Ronaldo? To answer that question one would need a pretty comprehensive understanding of tactics and an honest understanding of what it’s costing the team to afford to make Ronaldo work. I can’t answer it, but it may very well be the superstar elephant in the room that really nobody wants to address.
Where do we go on the football side
1/ Ronaldo has to go, he doesnt want to be here and i dont blame him. That said if he gonna throw hissy fits and isolate himself from the squad then there is no point even trying to keep him.
2/ Fernandes has to be dropped, consistently underperformed for 12 months, doesnt even try now,used to be our hardest working player...now one of the worst and his petulance/arrogance grates on me.
3/ Need a change in captaincy, but who is captain material in our squad? Anybody? Varane ? Can he stay fit?
4/ We need to give Martinez time...he will come good-- media/pundits had daggers out for him before he even arrived, lindelof isnt physical or great in the air either..
5/ AWB and Dalot have to be 2 of the worst right backs in the league, we need an upgrade and quick.
6/ Time to unleash Garnacho and Iqbal----
7/ Malacia must start and give Shaw time on the sides to reflect just how poor he has become.
8/ No more MCFRED....
9/ We need a defensive minded midfielder, all top teams in top leagues have this type of player.... we dont have one in our squad who can do it, and this added to our poor full backs makes us so easy to get at
10/ We need to buy a number 9, not a wide attacker we already have 10 of them, we need to replace Ronaldo with a goalscoring number 9.
1/ Ronaldo has to go, he doesnt want to be here and i dont blame him. That said if he gonna throw hissy fits and isolate himself from the squad then there is no point even trying to keep him.
2/ Fernandes has to be dropped, consistently underperformed for 12 months, doesnt even try now,used to be our hardest working player...now one of the worst and his petulance/arrogance grates on me.
3/ Need a change in captaincy, but who is captain material in our squad? Anybody? Varane ? Can he stay fit?
4/ We need to give Martinez time...he will come good-- media/pundits had daggers out for him before he even arrived, lindelof isnt physical or great in the air either..
5/ AWB and Dalot have to be 2 of the worst right backs in the league, we need an upgrade and quick.
6/ Time to unleash Garnacho and Iqbal----
7/ Malacia must start and give Shaw time on the sides to reflect just how poor he has become.
8/ No more MCFRED....
9/ We need a defensive minded midfielder, all top teams in top leagues have this type of player.... we dont have one in our squad who can do it, and this added to our poor full backs makes us so easy to get at
10/ We need to buy a number 9, not a wide attacker we already have 10 of them, we need to replace Ronaldo with a goalscoring number 9.
Apart from anything else, the sums being talked about for Bailly's sale is roughly 8 million, and "that tall Austrian" would cost more in the region of 10m. Apart from the fact we've already officially ended our interest in him, amid fan outrage and pundit ridicule over the pursuit of him.
We can only hope that ETH is able to coach the limited players that he is allowed to bring in and the current crop to a better level and slowly build from there.
I do genuinely believe that if we can address our 2 central midfield positions then things will become a lot better as that’s the core of the team.
We need ETH to essentially do what Klopp did by getting the best out of players on a limited budget.
I do genuinely believe that if we can address our 2 central midfield positions then things will become a lot better as that’s the core of the team.
We need ETH to essentially do what Klopp did by getting the best out of players on a limited budget.
I agree with most points apart from Ronaldo and Iqbal. Letting Ronaldo go without signing 2 CF’s would be suicide, where are the goals going to come from? Iqbal isn’t ready for top flight football yet, he needs time to mature as a professional footballer and will be eaten alive in the EPL.
The horrible reality is that we need to sign some short term fixes and preferably a World class signing (if somebody is willing to join) to lift the spirits and provide a spark.
Getting relegated would see the end of Glazers surely?
I think the opposite. Relegation would see Utd share value plummet, so they would probably stay put till it recovered before selling.
We have players who will work hard for the tea.. McFred are 2 players, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia. But neither of them bar Malacia which we cant judge too early yet are good enough.
Maybe they can be good enough what we have seen so far in the 2 games, they aren't intelligent enough to play to ETH style or they need some beatings and time. We arent a club who can afford them time. We arent a club who will be happy to lose out on European football to reap the rewards that ETH has in hos vision for the club.
Look at Spurs, how many years in the making have they been building to be consistently in the CL? Fans were patient for years because they didnt have a taste for success in decades. When youre a club who has won so much in 30 years to struggling to get CL consistently, how do you buy time? At what point will people be calling for ETH head? Lets face it, hes the only manager that will bring success long term if give opportunities, I fear he will be long got rid of before we reap the rewards, no fault of his own.
He came to club in a mess, owners are employing bankers instead of footballing brains, they look at money in vs money out instead of money in vs success. Of course money out is a reason to run a club, unless youre fine making lossess and can afford that, its not a business to you anymore but run out of pure want for success.
Glazers are a business family, they couldn't care if the club got relegated as long as they continue to make money. Aslong as the fans keep handing over the wages to go towards profits, nothing will change. Success to them is how much sponsorship money was brought in compared to the last.
I dont see a bright future for the club to be honest.
I've already accepted we are lots more tests of trophies and no success, having mess of recruitment and standards at this club.
We know that we need heavy investment that just isn't there, and won't come. The only way this will end is when we have sunk far low enough that the glazer's can't make the interest payments, struggle to service the debt and can't take any more dividends...
We know that we need heavy investment that just isn't there, and won't come. The only way this will end is when we have sunk far low enough that the glazer's can't make the interest payments, struggle to service the debt and can't take any more dividends...
The way forward for the club is to sack Murtough, get the best DOF we can find and give him complete control over the football side of the club. Let him decide on a style of play, hire coaches to implement that style and identify the players needed to execute it. That's how most successful modern clubs are run now.
We are forever on the back foot - in an ideal world we should be planning for the next summer transfer window (2023) today, not blundering our way through the current one.
Problems at this club are deeply rooted - there is next to nothing we can do to fix that in the short term
If the club do not back Ten Hag with at least 2 players he wants before the end of this window, any failure will be on the club and not the manager. That is crucial. If we have a terrible season and universally hold the club responsible, that is a disaster for Manchester United. But get him a couple of players and it's a different story.
Ten Hag should have come in to this club endorsing a 3-5 year blueprint of how to get Manchester United back to the top, that includes a proper youth development and recruitment strategy, but alas, it looks like again we're shooting at moving objects in the dark wearing oven gloves and sunglasses.
Problems at this club are deeply rooted - there is next to nothing we can do to fix that in the short term
If the club do not back Ten Hag with at least 2 players he wants before the end of this window, any failure will be on the club and not the manager. That is crucial. If we have a terrible season and universally hold the club responsible, that is a disaster for Manchester United. But get him a couple of players and it's a different story.
Ten Hag should have come in to this club endorsing a 3-5 year blueprint of how to get Manchester United back to the top, that includes a proper youth development and recruitment strategy, but alas, it looks like again we're shooting at moving objects in the dark wearing oven gloves and sunglasses.
We’re going to get battered by Liverpool no matter who we put on the pitch. I’d force Maguire, Fred and other underperformers to be humiliated and then we bring on a few youngsters and whoever we’ve brought in at the end of the transfer window to face Leicester City, Arsenal etc.
Well not sure why Rabiot would be a bad transfer.
He is bigger and also technical than Fred/Mct
Buy some striker that can press and get 10 goals and sell Ronaldo..why keep him if he cannot run or press..
I doubt we get top 10 finish this season. Realistically, I cannot see where our next goal is coming from let alone win.
This season we have barely created a chance to score.
Liverpool will probably beat us 5-0 and we will be sat with -10 GD 0 points after 3 games.
This season we have barely created a chance to score.
Liverpool will probably beat us 5-0 and we will be sat with -10 GD 0 points after 3 games.
The problem with buying Rabiot is.. the guy is rumored to be a giant douchebag. You just let one leave back to Italy. Technically and tactically he is the right profile but do you want to continue a culture of poor professionalism or reset it?
Unless we can sign someone ASAP, I would play Martinez at CDM. We should have signed a CDM but in lieu of one that's what I'd be forced to do. I'd drop Bruno, for a long time now I have been irritated by him being wasteful, undisciplined and a moaner. I'd play Eriksen as our 10 and sign a midfielder. If we can't then its Martinez, Eriksen and one more from Fred or van de Beek - we can't play McFred clearly. If you aren't performing on the pitch or not giving 100% or if your attitude is wrong then you are dropped. If that means we play the youth team, so be it. How we will get rid of most of these players I don't know. But really many need to be shipped to clear out the bad attitudes. But will we ever learn? Rashford will get a new contract, when really he doesn't deserve this at all.
United are on a dark dark place and right now, I can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. With a new manager in I thought we would have a bounce like we did with Ole but with the leaks about dressing room arguments and players not happy with the captain choice then things will get worse. We need authority in the club who will kick out any fecker who doesn’t play ball. SAF wouldn’t take any shit no matter how big the player was and that’s what we need, this is Manchester United not Ronaldo United or Maguire United they can all feck off.
Sack ETH and get Dyche is an ASAP.
He has he experience to keep us up.
He has he experience to keep us up.
This genuinely angers me. After all they've done to put this club in the pits, the final nail in the coffin is intervening to undermine the manager and confirm the season is written off before it's begun.
Commercial club, not a football club.
Apart from the talent part.
EDIT: Sorry, that was needless baiting. I apologize. More seriously, I am sure your manager can get the team working MUCH better than it is now. The players you have are not all dross and I am sure they can find some new confidence and self-belief at some point.
I don’t know where we go from here. We’re desperate for signings but the players we’re linked with are absolutely shite and would just become more overpaid mediocre talent that we can’t shift.
It’s a complete mess. I have absolutely no confidence in both the board and squad, I’ve never felt this disconnected in my life.
It’s a complete mess. I have absolutely no confidence in both the board and squad, I’ve never felt this disconnected in my life.
We won't be relegated, not a chance, but it's a total mess, both on and off the pitch. Owners who only care about revenue they can take out, people in charge of recruitment who don't know what they're doing, a squad filled with rubbish players who don't care, toxic culture, rotting stadium, no plan amongst the fanbase. The list of problems seems endless right now. We need root and branch change; most of we all we need the owners out, but that's very difficult.
Clubs pretty fecked if I'm honest, it's not just on the pitch. It's the whole hierachy of the club AND United need a new stadium still or a major rebuilt.
United need to spent half a billion plus, before even signing players.
United need to spent half a billion plus, before even signing players.
Now 2 weeks left till the transfer window closes, as far as I can tell we need at least 3 more signings to fill up gaps in the squad, I would say 2 midfielders and a forward at least, or we’re relegation material. Things not looking good, you have to feel sorry for ETH. On the positive side at least it’s raining.
Interesting to hear all the fear-mongering about Rabiot and of course his agent mother going on through the media and of course among some supporters. A more objective view if you follow French players is the bloke is a maverick of sorts but does want to play and probably will be out to prove doubters wrong.
If he does get signed it will be to provide that technical ability, spark and energy and lack of fear that we don`t recognise as qualities of many United players at the moment. All the woe is us, it`s a mess at United, the players are shot are not the real issues - the basic issue is under-performing, over-paid, technically weak/tactically inept, inflexible mindset players and the proof of that is how other Premier League teams that spent a fraction of what United did and don`t have the same resources are doing just fine with their players.
And drop Scott, Fred, Luke and Harry. Right now. In the case of Scott and Fred they are not good enough although their attitudes are good, whether or not there is room for development - and get Paul Scholes in to coach them and others. He had his usual simple but concise comments to make on the midfield recently and it was about lack of technical skills.
Luke hasn`t progressed and I suspect he is somebody who is happy to coast along and not take responsibility for being part of the problem. Get him out of the club as soon as possible. Harry too needs another club - his technical limits are clearer now and he also lacks the guts that United captains are supposed to have. He won`t change at this point of his career while he is at United.
Defence and midfield have to be overhauled right now. Start there.
If he does get signed it will be to provide that technical ability, spark and energy and lack of fear that we don`t recognise as qualities of many United players at the moment. All the woe is us, it`s a mess at United, the players are shot are not the real issues - the basic issue is under-performing, over-paid, technically weak/tactically inept, inflexible mindset players and the proof of that is how other Premier League teams that spent a fraction of what United did and don`t have the same resources are doing just fine with their players.
And drop Scott, Fred, Luke and Harry. Right now. In the case of Scott and Fred they are not good enough although their attitudes are good, whether or not there is room for development - and get Paul Scholes in to coach them and others. He had his usual simple but concise comments to make on the midfield recently and it was about lack of technical skills.
Luke hasn`t progressed and I suspect he is somebody who is happy to coast along and not take responsibility for being part of the problem. Get him out of the club as soon as possible. Harry too needs another club - his technical limits are clearer now and he also lacks the guts that United captains are supposed to have. He won`t change at this point of his career while he is at United.
Defence and midfield have to be overhauled right now. Start there.
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For me it's simple: the club backs ETH, or ETH should leave, loudly and publically, and stick the final nail in the Glazers coffin. Watch how fast the parasites want to sell when that one decision would like to eat 500m of 'their' money. That might even get the other spawns' attention.
Get rid of Ronaldo. He's not even scoring the chances he gets, and honestly f*ck him and his ego and his attitude.
Bring in an actual midfielder.
Let ETH work his methods, revisit the situation at Christmas.
Get rid of Ronaldo. He's not even scoring the chances he gets, and honestly f*ck him and his ego and his attitude.
Bring in an actual midfielder.
Let ETH work his methods, revisit the situation at Christmas.
To me the fact that Steve McClaren and Darren Fletcher play important or in fact any role in the club sums up where we are .
That Phil Jones still has a contract ...................!!!
Richard Arnold . I mean just look at him .
Nothing will change until someone buys the club .
That Phil Jones still has a contract ...................!!!
Richard Arnold . I mean just look at him .
Nothing will change until someone buys the club .
Buying Rabiot for a fee less than £20 million so they can avoid playing McTominay and Fred at the same time is completely worth it. He has an obnoxious agent but a lot of players do. Some of the marks against him are stupid too. PSG got mad because he wouldn't renew his contract and wanted to leave on a free. Juve want to dump him because they have competent executive who are capable of finding another decent midfielder.
I agree with this. Stop playing the players that are taking us nowhere. Even if the likes or Garner, Garnacho and Hannibal aren't good enough. At least they will give their all and the play the style of football we're trying to implement.
We could take up the idea that Budweiser had in 2005 (at the start of this advert):