Nobody is forcing them, if you’re a decent human being you take a prison sentence or hide if you can (Russia is massive and it’s difficult trace someone), now they’re heading for a certain death as Nazis. They would revolt if people would be dead against it 100%.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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I think we should not underestimate the effectiveness of the propaganda. Many of those people most likely actually believe they are defending their country and will be seen as heroes.
Honestly, 15 years is a very long time - I'd not imagine that is an easy decision to make. Plus even if they could, I am sure they will be pressured into going anyway with stories of what would happen to them in prison. Hopefully a sizeable number defect.
It’s a tough choice between a 15 year prison sentence and the potential prospect of fighting for a period of time then returning to one’s family. No guarantees of course, especially since Putin has already moved the goalposts several times with previous soldier contracts.
All because of one man's ego.
Russian prisons are absolutely horrible.
Looks like they're playing with the old Stalin play book. The enemy may have more ammunition, but we have more bodies and they're cheaper. This could be a bloodbath. Hopefully the Russians will turn on Putin now.
I think the kind of sentence, threats to members of their families, and the repercussions in prison might just be said to be co-ercion. Of course they're being forced - given the choice I suspect very, very few of those young men would be there.
Same as they did during Afghan war. Went swimmingly.
This combined with 300k untrained reservists will result in nothing else than a huge bloodbath.
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Are they being given that choice. I remember when we had conscription over here we didn't have the choice of going to jail in stead. You fought or were hung as a deserter
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Does anyone know how many troops Ukraine has on the frontline and what is their situation in terms of reserves, recruitment and training?
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This was as of 11 July but take it with a pinch of salt. I don't know if there is a independently verified figure. Just added a sky source don't know which one is true.
This is desperately sad to see.
I know at the end it’s people dying for little reason (in this war especially) but it’s different if it’s professional soldiers where if you choose to sign up there is a chance you might have to fight and get killed.
This is like cattle on the way to the abattoir.
I know at the end it’s people dying for little reason (in this war especially) but it’s different if it’s professional soldiers where if you choose to sign up there is a chance you might have to fight and get killed.
This is like cattle on the way to the abattoir.
China and India should abandon Putin completely.
Yeah yeah, it doesn’t take much convincing for them:
Until west understands that Russian people are real nazis nothing will change, it’s not Putin. Did you not see Paxi’s posts in this thread? Well that’s how at least 50% of russian think.Tweet
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Nationalism is definitely a problem, but so is constant propaganda that supports the conditions for radicalization and dehumanization of Ukrainians. When you are limited on your sources of news and information, you are likely to buy into what the state is selling.
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Does the caf have a "biggest balls award"? I want to nominate someone.
I can help you with nominations:
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Which one are you?
Now you have to have balls to say basic facts in this thread?
Didn't you admit a couple of pages back you share stuff you know is not true?
Or your fact that 50% of russians are nazis just a few posts back?
Look, I'm sure most people in this thread, if not all, want ukraine to win, but the way you reduce everything to a black and white situation is a bit ridiculous.
This nazi spiel you've got going on is very interesting. The only, and I mean only, reason you're doing it is as a propagandic response to Putin's rhetoric about Ukraine and nazism; the 'no u' of IR. Russia has their nazis, like many others: you famously have the Wagner group with their inspirations, and there are other small groups spread aroud, several of them of the nazbol variety partly inspired by Dugin and his ilk. Russian ideology or society are, however, not driven by nazism, neither from top-down or from grassroots. You wouldn't call America or Americans nazis because of Atomwaffen and several other relatively small groups, and you wouldn't call Ukraine or Ukrainians nazis because of Azov, even back in 2014.
You don't have to be a nazi to be authoritarian, or fascist, or genocidal, or racist, or whatever. Nazism is a specific ideology with specific tenets, and this is not it. You're making it up because you think it's useful, and now you're evolving from calling Putin and/or the state apparatus nazis to even the Russian people. The only question is if this is yet another crazy take, where you're fooling yourself, or if it's part of your self-confessed "informational warfare campaign" where you're just lying.
It’s very close to being black and white though. What’s not clear for you in all this? Russians have been brainwashed into being imperialist nationalists to the core, I’m sorry you can’t see it. Many live in informational vacuum alright (don’t get the news from any other sources) but it doesn’t change that simple fact. After Putin reign we’ll still have to deal with the brainwashed nation, people should stop living under the illusion that it will become all rosy once he leaves.
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You claimed 50% of russians are nazis. It's a pretty extraordinary claim to put forward without extraordinary evidence.
The quote suggests that he was already at the frontline. If they decide to desert there I wouldn’t be surprised if they were killed (there were many similar reports about killings, imprisonment and torture of those who refused to fight). If they decide not to abide by their conscription, they should just get in jail, but in the current Russia you can never be sure of how different laws are going to be implemented (or ignored).
You really are taking this too far in my opinion to Rajma. It's as if you have hatred towards Russian people in general.
As for mobilized people having choices, it's ridiculous. Russia would never allow itself to depend on choice only. I'm sure there are promises of treating family well if they go to fight, or not so well if they go to prison.
Yeah, they should let their kids die from hunger while rotting in prison.
As for mobilized people having choices, it's ridiculous. Russia would never allow itself to depend on choice only. I'm sure there are promises of treating family well if they go to fight, or not so well if they go to prison.
Yeah, they should let their kids die from hunger while rotting in prison.
Well even the most liberal people (which make up like 10% of country give or take) celebrated the genocide of Ukrainians in Donbass and occupation of Crimea. Most supported genocidal war up until now, does that not qualify you as a nazi just on this basis alone? It does in my book. It’s also the most racist country in Europe by far, I think you can connect the dots. Just look how they treat their own ethnic minorities.
It’s worth noting that the Russian force in Ukraine is usually estimated to be between 150-200k. That active military personnel number doesn’t seem to indicate the number of available manpower in reserve though.
Although it gets evermore confusing considering that Russia also uses Rosgvardia, “volunteer” forces made up from DNR & LNR conscripts and private military organizations and all of them aren’t technically part of the Russian army and don’t count towards that active military personnel number.
You sound like those american trumpers who call everyone communists without knowing what it means.
And I'd like to know where you're pulling these random percentages from. It sounds like you're making them up as you post.
I have no idea how you've come to this conclusion, the few local Russian posters we have (which I am assuming is probably your only actual contact with a Russian) are very clearly anti-Putin and anti-war.
These are massive outliers let me tell you that. I’m glad they exist meaning not all is lost but they’ll tell you themselves that there are handful people like them in the country. Massive respect though.
Cheers. They were 2 sources I could find in the UK but basic numbers mean nothing, you need someone how has more accurate knowledge.
Thanks for the links. I got to thinking about it when it became known about conscription and the Ukrainian defence ministry(?) said they assumed it and were prepared(or something similar)
But to what extent are they prepared. Even if they are not the best soldiers 15000/20000 men on each front can be a lot of pressure. I don't know if counter-attacks like Kharkiv/Izium would have been possible, unless I am underestimating Ukrainian logistics, organisation and weapons
Unfortunately, vast majority (90%, including many so called liberals) cheered on it.Who were these guys then? In 2014.
How many metres can you walk into Ukraine armed and still identify as a liberal/anti-war/anti-Putin?