Decades Chain Draft: R1 - Beam/Synco vs antohan

With players at their level during the designated years, who would win?


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Physiocrat

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Beam/Synco



antohan



Beam/Synco

Tactics
: 4-2-3-1; attacking and fluid, with interchangeable front four and the intention to dominate the game

Building around the GOAT:

Maybe it is hard to spot it at first with many imperious names, but yes, it is around Marco van Basten. With the rules of the draft you sometimes don't quite manage to hit the exact peak of the player, but luckily here, even that hit the nail on the head. Marco van Basten was the most complete striker ever. There are few people who had a better goalscoring record, there are some who managed to have brilliant link up play and movement, but none managed to have it all on such a monstrous level as van Basten at his very peak. His allround game as a striker was the best that was ever seen. And this version of van Basten (late Ajax one and early Milan) is exactly that. Dribbling, heading, movement, pace, intelligence, link up, hold up, finishing and flair. There is simply nothing Marco couldn't do.

Many times people have to choose: do they prefer style over substance. Well, the Swan of Utrecht had it both.

“Marco van Basten remains for me the best striker of all time...I above all remember him for his elegance, his grace and his incredible quality” — Arrigo Sacchi
The rest of the team:

Although I'm fairly sure van Basten would perform even in a Mourinho-like set up without any problems, the idea was to give him the best possible platform to perform. A team full of creativity, intelligence and unselfishness in which van Basten would enjoy playing, we presume.

Ammunition is provided from one of the best in the business in Michael Laudrup, with the predatory instincts of Oleg Blokhin on the side. The best thing about it is, with Laudrup feeling at home in that fantastic attacking trio along with Stoichkov and Romario, this can't be closer then that. Heck, you could argue it's even better. So, it looks like the team is built for him as well.

To feel even more cousy, he is paired with Fernando Redondo reuniting their brilliant partnership in Real Madrid in Laudrup's last swan song. (Although we play the peak Barca version of Laudrup here.) And N'Golo Kante rounds off the midfield trio, bringing another complementary piece to the team as one of the best b2b midfielders ever.

At the back, Gaetano Scirea and Nemanja Vidic make a perfect sweeper - stopper combo, with the energy of Ricardo Pavoni and efficient intelligence of Philip Lahm on the side.

Lastly, Igor Chislenko. From the available footage, Chislenko was a brilliant team player who had an immense workrate, but was a fantastic winger in his own right. He loved to link up with the rest of the team, being a great goalscoring threat on his own, bringing a full array of problems to the opposition team even on the opposite wing, and not disturbing the dynamics of Blokhin - Laudrup - Van Basten in any way. He rather complements it perfectly.

We will borrow harms' video for a better understanding:



Conclusion:

A team with style and substance. Same as the man leading the attack

antohan

TEAM ANTOHAN: WC Winning GOATs + Rest of the World Peaches XI


I know Beam has van Basten, Redondo, Scirea and a whole load of great players as per usual. Personally, I put less emphasis on blockbuster names and focused on constructing a team that naturally fits and gels together.

I'm particularly chuffed with the balance and fit within the midfield trio, a tall order when the components span four decades. It has everything you would want from a midfield unit.

Rui Costa is a #10 that isn't a floating trequartista but a proper midfielder as well, more of an 8.5 if you will. If you ask me, Zidane has the World Cup and the Euros, but has nothing on Rui Costa performance-wise in that second half of the 90s. Souness is a match for any box-to-box midfielder out there. Some are better, some worse, but it would never be anything other than a contest of equals. Finally, Tito anchors that midfield, shields the defence and can playmake from deep. Furthermore, if late on we needed to close the game out, we can bring on Koke for Simonsen to play alongside Souness and have Tito as pivot with the option of dropping into a back 3. "Mmmm, Koke?", I hear you thinking... Yeah, Koke, a player for whom grinding out results is his element, being brought on to do just that.

The frontline needs no intro. The two superstars in the team have had it all built around them, including a partner in crime whose ability is only overshadowed by his selflessness and dedication to the team. Goofy and Simonsen will get on like a house on fire.

Behind them, two great fullbacks, used to running the flank all by themselves if needs be. I'm aware Petrescu will get targeted, I would have preferred Zanetti of course but once he was gone I picked him up straight away. He can do the job required of him, and then some.

Back three has a superb keeper protected by two excelent CBs. All-rounders, not agricultural stoppers or ball-playing fannies: strong, robust CBs that on their day can do as good a job as any pairing, if not better.

I can see there are many star-studded teams out there and I'm under no illusion that some of these stars are such because they can have sensational performances. I just think, as a team, this lot will perform even better than the sum of all these very good parts.
 
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Synco

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Good luck @antohan
Agree you have drafted an very fine team, lots of quality & all players spot on in their roles.

To kick off the debate: As usual in all-time drafts it's close in several areas, both in terms of quality and cohesion. But where I think we have a clear edge is backline + keeper, especially Scirea - Vidic - Lahm. So we reckon our attackers can do that extra bit of damage to win the game.
 

Synco

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As for our team & players, Beam's OP should cover a lot of the important things, well worth a read.

For now, I'm waiting on anto or neutrals to post remarks or questions.
 

Physiocrat

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Anto's side is very complementary but Kouibally stands out like a sore thumb.
 

antohan

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Good luck @antohan
Agree you have drafted an very fine team, lots of quality & all players spot on in their roles.

To kick off the debate: As usual in all-time drafts it's close in several areas, both in terms of quality and cohesion. But where I think we have a clear edge is backline + keeper, especially Scirea - Vidic - Lahm. So we reckon our attackers can do that extra bit of damage to win the game.
Good luck to you too.

Board meeting today so can only write in Morse code :lol:

I'd agree that both frontlines and midfields are well constructed.

Your CB pairing is a tier above indeed. Would disagree re keeper, more so having selected a second keeper after seeing the draw :p

I'd argue my fullbacks are better placed to deal with the threat at hand, in relative terms. Not as distinct a difference as the CBs though, agreed, and arguably down to personal preferences.

One relevant question though is what happens if Laudrup is well dealt with or blows cold, as he occasionally did. I'm not seeing your alternative creative source. Rui Costa was more consistent, and even if controlled, you have Ronaldinho at his unplayable best here.
 

antohan

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Anto's side is very complementary but Kouibally stands out like a sore thumb.
Among others:

CAF Team of the Year: 2016, 2018, 2019

Serie A Team of the Year: 2015-16, 2016-17, 2017-18, 2018-19

I would swear Italians can tell what a top defender looks like.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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if anyone's interested here's a clip that has almost all of Demyanenko's goals that are available, which is hardly any for league goals, but has most of his international and european goals.

 

Synco

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Board meeting today so can only write in Morse code :lol:
And I'm down with Covid. Will answer a few points and crawl into bed. This is truly the draft of the sick, injured & otherwise absent.
Your CB pairing is a tier above indeed.
Let's be honest, two tiers :wenger:
Would disagree re keeper, more so having selected a second keeper after seeing the draw :p
Not quite the reason :D But the fact that we squandered our Brazil pick on him shows how highly we rate him, especially his libero keeper qualities.

I don't know anything about Cordoba, so won't say anything bad, but Alisson has been rated a top 3 keeper in the world for years now. Then again, a roundabout elite keeper without weaknesses is enough in a draft imo, so it's probably alright.
I'd argue my fullbacks are better placed to deal with the threat at hand, in relative terms. Not as distinct a difference as the CBs though, agreed, and arguably down to personal preferences.
Every now and then, I'm a little astonished how much Lahm's outstanding qualities as a defender seem to be overlooked in draft discussions. Probably because he doesn't look the part?

But having followed the majority of his career games, he is one of the best wide defenders I've seen. Not operating with physical force, but with outstanding reading of his opponent, immaculate timing, and precise & robust tackling. (Lots of the "Lahm Special" sliding tackles in this comp, plus more tasty stuff.)

Dinho is a threat to everyone and will have his moments (so will the other attacking greats in this match), but Lahm is on the short list of fullbacks I'd have no nightmares to put up against a player of his caliber. Not least because he'll make him defend as well.

I think you'd have to similarly argue why Petrescu is in a better position to deal with Blokhin, tbh.
Serie A Team of the Year: 2015-16, 2016-17, 2017-18, 2018-19

I would swear Italians can tell what a top defender looks like.
But this hasn't been 1970s/80s Italian football, where Scirea kept Baresi out of the national team for years.
One relevant question though is what happens if Laudrup is well dealt with or blows cold, as he occasionally did. I'm not seeing your alternative creative source. Rui Costa was more consistent, and even if controlled, you have Ronaldinho at his unplayable best here.
Let's put it carefully: I'm confident Scirea, Redondo, Lahm are the best set of secondary playmakers on the pitch. Every one an all time great in possession in their own style. This is also where Alisson comes in handy, because he'll provide the fast & precise circulation to get the ball to your side of the pitch.

Plus van Basten, Blokhin (!), and Chislenko (watch the OP video) are creators in their own right. Peak Kante could decisively carry the ball too, if you think back to the big games of Chelsea's CL winning campaign (outside the timeframe, but it gives an idea). So in the case of Laudrup having a stinker (why would we randomly assume that, btw? :D) we have the playmaking, the speed runs, the dribblings & carries to get the ball towards Kompany and Koulibaly.
 
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harms

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The feck is that team :confused:

anto has drafted a brilliant side as he always does but I can't look past beam/synco's juggernaut. Just perfect in every way.
 

antohan

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The feck is that team :confused:

anto has drafted a brilliant side as he always does but I can't look past beam/synco's juggernaut. Just perfect in every way.
I know. The teams that got early dibs on the 80s, 90s and 00s made an absolute killing.

Blokhin, Scirea, van Basten, Laudrup, Redondo... that's quite the start :lol:
 

antohan

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BTW @Synco I'm not underrating Lahm, he just simply has the hardest job out there keeping Ronaldinho quiet. That was typically at least a two man job. Petrescu is also up against, of course, but I reckon Simonsen is an equally tough assignment for Pavoni, while Demyanenko looks the most comfortable out there.

Your alternative playmakers play deep, they aren't the sort that can conjure up magic in the last quarter of the pitch and win the game with 1-2 moments of brilliance.

Much of a muchness though, I love Laudrup and have had that (which is true) mentioned before when I pick him. Personally, I'm of the idea in a knockout game it isn't a factor. It's typically a league format/routine game issue, not a knockout game issue so I never pay much attention to that in drafts. Cruyff obviously didn't agree with me, but another notoriously inconsistent creator made the point twice as clear in that EC final.
 

Synco

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@antohan
True, defending peak Dinho is no joke. Although I think defending peak Blokhin isn't terribly far off in terms of ungrateful marking jobs.
That was typically at least a two man job.
One thing we were very pleased to see was Chislenko's workrate, who was happy to defend high and deep even in the 60s. I think both our winger/FB combos are pretty far up in terms of defensive tenacity. But yeah, Demyanenko and Dinho is a massive left side, no doubt.
Your alternative playmakers play deep, they aren't the sort that can conjure up magic in the last quarter of the pitch and win the game with 1-2 moments of brilliance.
Yeah, but as I said, our front three is elite at creating their own chances too. Especially in transition, when Kante comes into play as a ball carrier, and our deeper playmakers can send our rapid wide forwards into space, who then can dribble and link up. Point is, I don't think we're too dependent on our #10, as our team is able to collectively progress the ball and create chances.
 

Synco

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The feck is that team :confused:

anto has drafted a brilliant side as he always does but I can't look past beam/synco's juggernaut. Just perfect in every way.
It's all Beam's work, I just married rich, so to speak :D And anto is probably right, certain starting positions guaranteed first dibs into very good pools.

Thing is, I wonder where to go with this team. Even the "lesser" players like Pavoni and Chislenko fit so well and contribute to its charm. I'd be happy to leave it at that. We can obviously try to goatify some positions, but not sure how much actual difference it makes for the setup.
 

Synco

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@antohan Maybe we could use the remaining time to shed more light on the lesser known players? Would be interested in what you have to say about Petrescu and Cordoba. I can post something about Pavoni and Chislenko.
 

antohan

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@antohan Maybe we could use the remaining time to shed more light on the lesser known players? Would be interested in what you have to say about Petrescu and Cordoba. I can post something about Pavoni and Chislenko.
At the turn of the century, Córdoba was to Boca what Schmeichel was to us, on the way to winning two Libertadores and the 2000 Intercontinental Cup vs Madrid. From 1999 to 2002, the world best goalkeeper discussion was a head-to-head between him and Oliver Kahn.

What Chilavert has on him is his own ego-driven personal marketing and Paraguay's 1998 World Cup campaign with a team wholly dedicated to not conceding, something Colombia never was. Córdoba instead has the 2001 Copa América, where he kept a clean sheet throughout the tournament, but not as many people watched those.

I've looked up YT highlights but they don't make him any justice. In fact, he had a tendency to punch the ball away, something that I don't remember ever getting him in trouble but when you see it over and over again in a clip you think someone has to punish him for all those rebounds. Clearly they weren't stray balls but directed, or else he wouldn't have been as reliable as everyone who saw him knows he was.

I looked up here, as I was sure I had written something about Córdoba before and this is even better as it was my argument for keepers mattering, in a draft in which I had Pagliuca, not Córdoba. I edited out the early waffle on one off performances vs consistency.

After winning two Libertadores in a row with Boca, Óscar Córdoba agreed with the club to make him a free agent so he could move to Europe and cash in on much better wages in his last few years as a pro.

The problem was the season finishes in December, so he needed to find a club in January. What sort of club is going to offer big money to a goalkeeper recently ranked #2 in the world... in January? A club in trouble, of course.

Perugia were heading towards relegation from Serie A. After 19 games they had picked up 21 points (1.1/game), they were scoring 1.2 gpg but conceding 1.5gpg. Extrapolating that to the season end would have them relegated to Serie B.

Perugia didn't change manager or panic buy a bunch of players of dubious credentials. All they did was make one signing. They offered Córdoba a tasty 6-month contract with attractive bonuses for remaining in Serie A. After that he would again be free to find a more permanent gig.

Over the next 15 games Perugia carried on scoring at the same rate, but now conceded 1gpg instead of 1.5gpg, resulting in them picking up 1.6 points per game and not 1.1

Instead of 15th, Perugia ended up 8th and qualified to the Intertoto Cup. Seven points were all that separated the two outcomes and 0.5ppg what Córdoba brought with him for those 15 games.

Fine margins: keepers typically own those.

 

antohan

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As far as Petrescu is concerned, he was part of that best ever Romanian generation spanning ~1988-98: Belodedici, Popescu, Lacatus, Hagi... That Steaua side at club level and Romania at international level clearly are criminally underrated given he is the only one finding his way in here and painted as the weak link. It's a shame they went out to Sweden on penalties in 1994, after they knocked out Argentina it looked like they could go all the way, more so than Bulgaria.

He was as good a man as any to dominate a flank. Stylistically, I needed a competent defender who can run up and down the flank all day long as fullback, wingback, right midfielder all rolled into one and performed according to how the game unravels. That's essentially what Petrescu did and what Trent does really badly given defending is involved.

There really aren't all that many out there that can do it. Zanetti is one, a couple of Brazilians come to mind but I couldn't do Brazil, and then you get into the realm of picking Zambrotta... just because he is Italian and a World Cup winner really, because he had nothing on Petrescu if you ask me.
 

Synco

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Cheers, interesting stuff. Especially the take on Cordoba vs Chilavert, which has implications for draft image as well. High praise for Petrescu - if he was indeed that good, he'd deserve to be more on the draft radar. Perhaps there could be an all-time compilation at some point.

---------------------------------

So, on Chislenko, three aspects pleasantly surprised me when watching the material harms has put together:
  • his inside forward tendencies and vast movement
  • more specific, his ability to pull inside and shoot with his left Robben-style
  • his defensive workrate
A remarkable portion of the all-touch footage is actually him against the ball. It goes from high pressing to deep defending, at times even in central midfield areas. All the more impressive for a 60s player, so I think in drafts he can be rated top drawer when it comes to defensive contribution of forwards.

He also roamed widely in those games, attacking from LW and AM, and making CF runs behind the last line in the box. So while I expected to see a traditional winger, I'd call him a mix of "proper-footed" winger and inside forward. What helps a lot with these moves is his two-footedness. The highlights video from our OP shows him being equally comfortable finishing with his left, and he scored some Robben-esque crackers this way. I think there are a few more aspects of Chislenko's game that might be comparable to the Dutchman - his style of using his pace in dribblings, also his way of getting behind the backline with quick one-twos (can all be debated, of course).

Seems a very complete attacking player, capable of both collective play and decisive individual initiative. Final mention goes to his inclination for short-passing around the box, including penetrating one-twos and through balls.

@harms @Demyanenko_square_jaw Feel free to add or correct something. Maybe there's even an older profile post on him somewhere in the forum?
 
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General_Elegancia

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I think Koulibaly is a great choice on the right side, especially against Blokhin. He must face Blokhin when Blokhin cuts inside to score goals or cover Petrescu( when he's beaten by Blokhin in 1 on 1). He has a great amount of athleticism, speed, and strength, which can help him a lot. He has a lot of experience covering fullback and dueling 1 on 1 with opposition forwards.

Although, he has made some clumsy errors or unforgivable mistakes in both Calcio and European competitions. I still rate him as the top 3 stoppers during his peak and he's rated by a lot of websites or newspapers as the top 5 defenders in the world during the late 2010s.
 

harms

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Cheers, interesting stuff. Especially the take on Cordoba vs Chilavert, which has implications for draft image as well. High praise for Petrescu - if he was indeed that good, he'd deserve to be more on the draft radar. Perhaps there could be an all-time compilation at some point.

---------------------------------

So, on Chislenko, three aspects pleasantly surprised me when watching the material harms has put together:
  • his inside forward tendencies and vast movement
  • more specific, his ability to pull inside and shoot with his left Robben-style
  • his defensive workrate
A remarkable portion of the all-touch footage is actually him against the ball. It goes from high pressing to deep defending, at times even in central midfield areas. All the more impressive for a 60s player, so I think in drafts he can be rated top drawer when it comes to defensive contribution of forwards.

He also roamed widely in those games, attacking from LW and AM, and making CF runs behind the last line in the box. So while I expected to see a traditional winger, I'd call him a mix of "proper-footed" winger and inside forward. What helps a lot with these moves is his two-footedness. The highlights video from our OP shows him being equally comfortable finishing with his left, and he scored some Robben-esque crackers this way. I think there are a few more aspects of Chislenko's game that might be comparable to the Dutchman - his style of using his pace in dribblings, also his way of getting behind the backline with quick one-twos (can all be debated, of course).

Seems a very complete attacking player, capable of both collective play and decisive individual initiative. Final mention goes to his inclination for short-passing around the box, including penetrating one-twos and through balls.

@harms @Demyanenko_square_jaw Feel free to add or correct something. Maybe there's even an older profile post on him somewhere in the forum?
I'd say that for USSR Chislenko had 2 relatively distinct career stages.

Originally he was a proper outside right with outstanding dribbling ability and impressive work-rate, but his focus at the time was always to create chances, not to finish them. Although even in that period, just like any great talent would, he had moments when he just went for it — like his famous goal against Colombia at the 1962 World Cup:

Still, he was closer to Johnstone than to Hamrin if we compare him to his more or less contemporaries. Two legs against Italy in 1963 were a good indication of his playing style — he scored in one and made an assist in another; but in the first game he played even deeper than usual, often joining midfield according to reports (although still toying with poor Facchetti every time he found himself playing against him). This is the visualization of his assist from the second leg (circle with a number 3 is Facchetti):


Around mid 60's he started to play in a more expansive role even though he was still capable of playing as a disciplined wide midfielder/winger. He had scored 4 goals in 20 appearances for USSR before 1964 (he didn't play in 1965) and then the floodgates opened — 16 goals in 22 appearances from 1966 to 1968 including 10 in 1967 (more than any other player in Europe, maybe even in the world but I don't have time to check). The reintroduction of Streltsov played a big part in his sudden raise of productivity but it wasn't the only reason — he really upped his game and used his guile and intelligence to make brilliant runs in-behind, roam all around the front line while Streltsov, a nominal centre forward, dropped deeper almost in midfield. And this version of Chislenko was genuinely world-class — he finished just below Best & Müller in 1967 Ballon d'Or vote beating the likes of Mazzola, Riva, Rivera etc. Sadly, he got a career-ending injury soon after finding this new role for himself, otherwise he would've been remembered way more fondly.

-------------------------

Although it's not the full picture. Interestingly enough, his best goalscoring seasons for Dynamo happened in the early 1960's. I don't have full stats, only the times when he appears in league's top scorers lists: 12 goals in 1960, 15 goals in 1961 and 9 goals in 1964. Interestingly enough, he doesn't appear in top scorers lists of the second half of 1960's. So maybe he always had it in him and it were simply the tactical restrictions that held him back? It's not like he learned some new skills aged 26-27, he always had the technical skills required.
 

Synco

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Cheers harms, really good stuff on him.
The reintroduction of Streltsov played a big part in his sudden raise of productivity
That's the blonde dude he links up with all the time in the Austria game, right? Awesome player even from a few minutes, and the fabulous one-two in the snippet I linked above seems a great example of the technical level of their interplay. (Chislenko's goal was legit and wrongly disallowed.)
And this version of Chislenko was genuinely world-class — he finished just below Best & Müller in 1967 Ballon d'Or vote beating the likes of Mazzola, Riva, Rivera etc. Sadly, he got a career-ending injury soon after finding this new role for himself, otherwise he would've been remembered way more fondly.
Yeah, that's the player we see in the footage you compiled. He looks world class for sure. Wonder what his assist numbers were.
 

Michaelf7777777

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Some more quotes on Chislenko from this article:

He can be considered a model of a modern extreme forward. He does not limit his actions to a narrow section of the field, but often and effectively shifts to the center, giving his movements extraordinary sharpness. Chislenko always actively fights for the ball when the opponent has it, turning into an additional midfielder. In a word, he plays the way modern football requires from an extreme forward.
Vsevolod Bobrov, USSR captain at 1952 Olympics

We can safely say that Chislenko, as a player, was ahead of his time. Nominally, he was considered the right edge of the attack, but did not play strictly in his place, as was customary then, but acted along the entire front of the attack, retreated deep back to help the defense. Excellent dribbling, stroking, enviable starting speed - he took off like a breeze, a rare ability to instantly prepare the ball for a strike and the blow itself - sharp, strong and accurate, made him one of the most notable players in the world in the 60s.
Oleg Kucherenko in 1994

In terms of the best 33 players of the season in the USSR lists as proposed by the National Coaches' Council, he finished 1st in 1963, 1964 and 1966; 2nd in 1960, 1961, 1962 and 1965; as well as a top 3 finish in 1967 (the players within the top 3 in a position were not ordered in this year.
 

harms

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That's the blonde dude he links up with all the time in the Austria game, right? Awesome player even from a few minutes, and the fabulous one-two in the snippet I linked above seems a great example of the technical level of their interplay. (Chislenko's goal was legit and wrongly disallowed.)
Yep, that’s him. Referee didn’t realize what had happened and figured that it had to be offside even if it wasn’t even close!
 

harms

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Draft forum delivers again, nice set of articles on that site @Michaelf7777777
It’s the biggest collection of information on all Soviet (and post-Soviet) football. Its creator passed away due to COVID and it even went down for a couple of months but thankfully we’ve been able to get it back up again (although there’s a possibility that it had nothing to do with me and I’m just solipsising).
 

Synco

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Yep, that’s him. Referee didn’t realize what had happened and figured that it had to be offside even if it wasn’t even close!
So many bad offside decisions in those decades. Often simply based on the hunch that if a striker is clean through, he must have been off.
It’s the biggest collection of information on all Soviet (and post-Soviet) football. Its creator passed away due to COVID and it even went down for a couple of months but thankfully we’ve been able to get it back up again (although there’s a possibility that it had nothing to do with me and I’m just solipsising).
Ah, that's the one. I remember either Dem or you mention it recently. Well congrats on making it possible, even if it wasn't you :D

Edit: also, fecking Covid, so many tragedies...
 
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Šjor Bepo

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Yeah, but you probably love the later roaming version - not the Stanley Matthews tribute act.
Think i prefer the original winger version... @harms which version was in your vids that destroyed Moore and Facchetti?
 

harms

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Think i prefer the original winger version... @harms which version was in your vids that destroyed Moore and Facchetti?
Forward-ish against Moore, winger against Facchetti (iirc in all of his games against him).
 

antohan

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Well, that was a bit of a hiding :lol:

Good game @Synco

Not sure if you had a hand in the last picks but when Beam went dark I thought "aye, maybe the wheels come off". Nope.

I frankly have no idea where you could possibly go from here in terms of reinforcements. Really shouldn't have blocked Brazil if you ask me, you didn't need Alisson at all.
 

Synco

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Well, that was a bit of a hiding :lol:

Good game @Synco

Not sure if you had a hand in the last picks but when Beam went dark I thought "aye, maybe the wheels come off". Nope.

I frankly have no idea where you could possibly go from here in terms of reinforcements. Really shouldn't have blocked Brazil if you ask me, you didn't need Alisson at all.
Good game and fun discussion, plaudits for our team go to Beam. I'll keep the Cordoba and Petrescu endorsement in mind.

The final result is of course nonsense, coming from a binary option when most voting decisions were probably narrower in reality. I mean, you had Dinho + Müller, who could confidently say they won't decide this game? (Was Müller even mentioned once in this thread?)

And yeah, I'd be happy to keep this side as it is, but we'll see what happens in RR.

As for Alisson, we made the joint decision to go for the best team possible, regardless of RR options. The chance to get a 100% fitting Brazilian upgrade are slim anyway. And we both value a libero keeper highly, not so much in terms of draft reception (GKs are terribly undervalued), but in treating our team on pure football terms. We simply liked it better this way.
 

antohan

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As for Alisson, we made the joint decision to go for the best team possible, regardless of RR options. The chance to get a 100% fitting Brazilian upgrade are slim anyway. And we both value a libero keeper highly, not so much in terms of draft reception (GKs are terribly undervalued), but in treating our team on pure football terms. We simply liked it better this way.
I noticed you mentioned that and chose not to start with unnecessary mud-slinging, but your backline doesn't scream "high line with libero keeper" at me. It's all very cute and fashionable but it's only Lahm I'd expect to be comfortable with that.
 

Synco

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I noticed you mentioned that and chose not to start with unnecessary mud-slinging, but your backline doesn't scream "high line with libero keeper" at me. It's all very cute and fashionable but it's only Lahm I'd expect to be comfortable with that.
No worries, but a default high line wasn't the plan anyway.

Beam and I agreed on the following against the ball: when losing possession, immediate aggressive counterpressing, because our front three, FBs + Kante are great at it. Even Laudrup did it at Barca, according to Beam. So plan A is regaining possession, but not with a do-or-die commitment. If the ball isn't won, drop back to a regular defending position, which suits our backline best.

But there will always be moments when the keeper has to sweep up a through ball (especially during the pressing phase), or when playing cleanly out of the back is important to keep possession in buildup. (Müller would often test the keeper under the backpass rule, imo.) So it doesn't hurt when your goalie is very good at it.
 
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