I'm not even sure Haaland has the most this year. I'm sure I read somewhere that Rashford and/or Osimhen have more
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah, Rashford has scored 16 goals in 2023.
You are actually correct. Haaland did score more hat tricks lately though but they are all in similar numbers since the start of 2023.
If we disregard the difference in level of football:
2023
1. Rashford -16 goals in 22 games
2. Oshimhen - 15 goals in 16 games
2. Haaland - 15 goals in 16 games
4. Ronaldo - 13 goals in 10 games
5. Mbappe - 13 goals in 13 games
Apparently Ronaldo doesn’t even play in Europe’s top 5 league so it isn’t apple to apple comparison.
I don't really care what he does to be honest. His presence at United was disruptive , he wasnt performing, and its pretty clear there was a cloud lifted when he left. A few goals against poor teams won't make me think it was a mistake to let him leave.
if we're disregarding the level of competition you can add me to that list. I've scored a fair few in my five a side recently.diving at 4-0 up against Luxembourg is vintage stuff
Agreed.
A bit like claiming Brono's goal
This is the first international game Ronaldo has played that I'm writing about and mainly because his fanboys including yourself are hyping him up for scoring against fecking Luxembourg.
In 2010, he was individually not good against the likes of Ivory Coast and North Korea in the group stages. I watched those games and those in 2014 as a proper Ronaldo fanboy before I switched.
That was in 09/10 season. He scored lots but his all round play wasn't as good as previous seasons. But yeah obsession with stats means that season was hyped up and infact there was an article comparing him to Messi who was playing at an extraterrestrial level even without counting the goals.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...0--Uniteds-rampaging-bull-flea-Barcelona.html
His ego is what made him what he is. He just lacks that on-the-ball genius that could have taken him next level. This is in contrast to some Brazilians like Ronaldinho, R9, and even Neymar who are/were easily better on the ball but lacked the ego/will power/discipline to be the best.
R9 and Neymar have been marred by injuries. Ronaldinho definitely fits the bill you're describing.
As regards the latter point, I didn't think that's what anyone was posting about. It was about whether he should still be in the Portuguese squad, not whether he should still be here.
The thread isn't about his time with us, it's about his current club and his international career. Which, as regards your first point, is absolutely fine if you 'really don't care what he does', but, if you then make posts on it, people might respond as I did not realising how little you care about it.
Ronaldo can only beat what he's facing and in that regard he's done well since he left us, better than what I expected, but there is no reason to try making Luxembourg something they're not. They're ranked 92 in the world and were firmly beaten 6-0 at home by one of the best National teams in Europe. It's not often they meet good opposition and the last 5 years Portugal is the only top 10 nation they've played (5 times! - total GF: 19-1).
He's scored 13 goals in 12 matches in Saudi Arabia and against Lichtenstein and Luxembourg playing for one of the best national teams in Europe. Let's just call it what it is: Statpadding. Having Lichtenstein and Luxembourg in your EURO Q group is 12 free points for Portugal and a great opportunity to let your legendary 38 year old hall of famer statpad his way to a world record.
Do you think Martinez is planning on going to the EUROs with Ronaldo in the starting 11?
Yes, of course the best scorer (in official games) of all time, the best champions league scorer of all time (also specifically in knockout games), the best Euro scorer of all time (final stages, also won gold and silver boots), that has been best scorer in the EPL, La Liga and Serie A, that has won several golden boots, best Euro Qualifying scorer of all time, best european World Cup Qualifying scorer of all time (2nd worldwide), is just a stat padder. Of course.
Picking the World Cup to decide anything is literally clutching the last straw, the only thing he didn't get to be best scorer in. And internationally he did it at the Euro, which is on par with the WC in terms of quality of teams. No context matters because it's just despair.
And can you IMAGINE if Portugal had won the World Cup with Ronaldo scoring 6 goals, 5 of those being penalties (I'm not downplaying Messi, there is this weird thing where you can consider them both amazing? Weird, right?)? It would have been a shitstorm of everyone calling him a stat padder
Picking the World Cup to decide anything is literally clutching the last straw, the only thing he didn't get to be best scorer in. And internationally he did it at the Euro, which is on par with the WC in terms of quality of teams. No context matters because it's just despair.
And can you IMAGINE if Portugal had won the World Cup with Ronaldo scoring 6 goals, 5 of those being penalties (I'm not downplaying Messi, there is this weird thing where you can consider them both amazing? Weird, right?)? It would have been a shitstorm of everyone calling him a stat padder
Last edited:
Ronaldo has played 12 games though: 8 in the Saudi league, 2 in Saudi cups and 2 for Portugal
R9 going down hill wasn't solely due to injuries. After he returned, he also became a party animal and would often miss training.
Neymar doesn't miss training but he fools too much around on the pitch instead of going for the jugular. Many of his injuries have come as a result of trying to humiliate an opponent.
He is better than Leao still, and therefore plays
I wouldn't claim to know his thinking either way, and nor should anyone else really.
But, as I've a few times, I think the dearth of any quality Portuguese #9's in their prime means it's perfectly valid that Ronaldo and Ramos - both at the end and start of their careers - are the two being selected.
Given Ronaldo's age, I would fully imagine Euro 2024 will be last international tournament so I would guess the plan would be that, at the end of Euro 2024 at the very least, Ramos would become the first choice #9. But I would also imagine at this point that they'll go into that tournament still with Ronaldo and Ramos as the main two strikers - unless another #9 has broken out in that 15 months and overtaken Ronaldo - but how many minutes each gets as starter or sub I wouldn't claim to know.
As regards Luxembourg, I really wasn't trying to 'make them something they're not', just trying to explain that they're not the regularly hammered (by other nations) minnows that some seem to be saying. And that their players play for professional clubs in Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc, rather than the bunch of part-time amateurs some seem to still be dismissing them as.
I'd pointed out in other posts that Portugal had hammered them previously, with Ronaldo getting a hat trick in that as well. My point was that other nations haven't been and they only generally concede between 0-3 against other teams in the last 5 years and do pick up some draws and wins. All factual. Which is why they're up to 92nd nowadays, which puts them above quite a few other European teams for now.
They're clearly not the level of teams in the higher pots but that's why they're not a higher pot team. But they've developed into a fairly competent lower nation and are far more competent than the likes of the remaining 'minnows' such as Andorra, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, San Marino who are ranked 153rd-211th (the very last spot).
You mention "specifically in knockout games" for the Champions League, but then you can't equally ignore the "knockout games" for the World Cup. His goal per game for the Champions League is better at 0.77, only Messi, Haaland and Lewandowski are better of modern players, level with Van Nistelrooy.Yes, of course the best scorer (in official games) of all time, the best champions league scorer of all time (also specifically in knockout games), the best Euro scorer of all time (final stages, also won gold and silver boots), that has been best scorer in the EPL, La Liga and Serie A, that has won several golden boots, best Euro Qualifying scorer of all time, best european World Cup Qualifying scorer of all time (2nd worldwide), is just a stat padder. Of course.
Picking the World Cup to decide anything is literally clutching the last straw, the only thing he didn't get to be best scorer in. And internationally he did it at the Euro, which is on par with the WC in terms of quality of teams. No context matters because it's just despair.
And can you IMAGINE if Portugal had won the World Cup with Ronaldo scoring 6 goals, 5 of those being penalties (I'm not downplaying Messi, there is this weird thing where you can consider them both amazing? Weird, right?)? It would have been a shitstorm of everyone calling him a stat padder
It's natural then for such a "great" international player and the greatest international scorer of all-time, that he'd have a better record than 22 goals in 47 games? A record of 0.46 goals per game? Sure it's a fine scoring record in its own right, he can be proud. If it wasn't attached to such "GOAT" fanfare and people declaring it the greatest thing ever. The great goalscorers would be expecting to be at least 0.6, up to 0.7-ish per game at least.
Also you are downplaying Messi, because why make that point otherwise? Messi scored the first goal to break the deadlock (from play) in two games where Argentina had been playing badly/struggling, he scored 7 goals, not 6, scored 4 penalties, not 5, and his best moments in the World Cup were arguably not goals at all, two amazing assists (against Croatia and Netherlands). Anyway we don't have to imagine that happened, because it didn't, unlike Messi who made imagine scenarios into reality.
You are right. Whoscored doesn’t even bother to show Saudi cups in their record so I might have missed counting those. It’s 13 goals in 12 games then.
That’s quite a stretch. Those are still top division/best league in Asia, in a country regular qualifies for WC, and also manage to produce club reaching 2nd place this year in world club cup, beating the best club from South America. But true it’s nowhere near the level of Europe’s top 5 league, not even close. But it’s still much closer to that level than your five a side competition.
I am not hyping him up for scoring against Luxembourg, I posted in here because people were criticising him for stat padding when every other player in Europe gets to play these level of teams and doesn't score the same number of goals
The level of salt is unbelievable
Yeah, that's what I don't get, and is why I've posted in the last few days about it.
As I said elsewhere, I don't do Twitter, and haven't really followed the thread's on here that were about Ronaldo v Messi, as that's not my type of thing. I understand both sides do it, but I just don't get the need to constantly criticise and undermine any of the achievements of the other 'greats' of the game.
I don't care who might hold the imaginary 'best player ever' title. It's subjective and unprovable. What is well established is that some players are definitely right up there in the conversation of 'greats of the game'. And I just don't know why anyone would spend their time going around social media telling people who like Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Brazilian Ronaldo, Maradona, Pele, etc, that that player is actually overrated and isn't as good as...
Each to their own, and some will prefer others based on personal reasons like preference of style, teams the player played for v team the person supports, era they first watched football in, etc.
And that's all fine. Praise that player and say they're your choice for personal preference. But to then haunt social media looking to denigrate any of the other 'greats' just because you personally can't stand them / feel so strongly that they're overrated that you have to tell everyone many times, seems a strange thing to enjoy.
So what if some prefer Ronaldo, others Messi, others Maradona or Pele? There's no right or wrong, so no need to constantly tell those people that in your opinion they are very wrong and to mock them for their preference.
That's why I started posting on here, to try and address some of that dismissive attitude and just say 'views on his character aside, he's up there in the conversation of greats on merit. Wherever he lies in that list is subjective.' Apparently, that that then makes me a 'fanboy' in the eyes of some who maybe only see extremes - you either loathe him and argue how he's overrated, or you're an obsessed fanboy who just doesn't see it - no in-between apparently.
Who cares if other strikers score against Luxembourg or not, seriously.
It's still stad padding, others doing it doesn't make it any better, San Marino, Malta, Gibraltar,etc are just semi-proffesional sides, it shouldn't change the legacy of any player scoring against them or not.
So I'm assuming when Messi scored against Panama in a friendly midweek these same posters were in his thread criticising him?
He is definitely statpadding right now. If playing in Saudi-Arabia and playing, over young upcoming players, against Lichtenstein and Luxembourg at the age of 38 isn't statpadding, I really don't know what is.
Since he turned 30, this is Ronaldo's stats for Portugal vs. different quality of opposition:
Against nations outside top 75 on the FIFA ranking:
36 goals (8 penalties) in 18 games
2 goals/game
1,56 non penalty goals/game
vs. teams between 31-75 on the FIFA ranking:
24 goals (4 penalties)in 38 games
0,63 goals/game
0,53 non penalty goals/game
vs. teams 1-30 on the FIFA ranking:
10 goals (3 penalties) in 22 games
0,45 goals/game
0,32 non penalty goals/90
Remarkable difference in the numbers, right? He'll probably continue to stack up numbers in the Saudi League.
He's obviously had an absolutely fantastic career and is one of the most prolific goalscorers of all time. He's also almost unmatched when it comes to longevity with 5 EUROs, 5 WCs, 183 CL matches, and 1100+ official matches total. Fantastic!
That doesn't change the fact that he was a disaster for us in his 2nd stay here and is now spending the last parts of his career statpadding in Saudi-Arabia, at least a couple of levels below where he should be playing.
.
No he's correct about all three. R9 and Neymar have had injuries but they're also not that professional compared to CR7, especially R9. He liked partying a lot.
I was more talking about the main reasons for them not filfulling their true potential. I agree not having the same discipline and commitment is part of it but injuries and illness(the low thyroid problem) is also a major part. Never understood why the thyroid problem was much of a problem for R9 since thyroid replacement therapy is fairly straightforward.
A player scores more goals against weaker opponents than top ones!? Wow, that is quite the stat. I wonder if the same applies to every other player / team?
It's an argument to why playing in Saudi Arabia vs. playing in a top league in Europe should be considered statpadding for a player of Ronaldo's caliber.A player scores more goals against weaker opponents than top ones!? Wow, that is quite the stat. I wonder if the same applies to every other player / team?
It's like that for most strikers of course, but maybe not this extreme.
His numbers against the top nations are really low compared to other top attackers.
Fair enough. I guess it depends what points are trying to be made here. I'm certainly not here trying to say that a 38 year old Ronaldo is still better than the likes of Haaland, Mbappe, etc, in their prime.
But Portugal can't pick any of those. And I'm mostly responding to the suggestion that Ronaldo shouldn't be in the national squad - not about how good he still is compared to the best from some other nations. Portugal have got one very talented young #9 in Ramos - who is already in the squad and getting game time. What top Portuguese #9's in their prime is Ronaldo taking the place of in the squad? Andre Silva? That's the debate here for me in terms of the qualifying games, not Ronaldo v Haaland or Mbappe.
I don't get this idea of 'what have they learned from picking him?' or 'Where's the development?' It's a competitive qualifying group heading towards the end of a cycle with a major tournament. Teams are picking their main players in order to win, not trying out new players in a friendly. What do other clubs or nations 'learn' by playing all the other experienced players in their 30's around the world? It's not about that with those, it's about playing them because you trust them and they're proven and experienced. Not because they're new and shiny.
Why is he still playing for the NT? Do they really plan on playing him in the Euros? Jesus Christ.
He scored a few goals against two minion. Not saying it won't be handy in case we need to qualify by goal difference, though.
My two cents on this: sponsorship contracts between the portuguese FA and sponsors that have been signed for X years, now they have to bare with it.
They don't have the balls to drop him.
(Yeah, I know certain people claim they've got no better alternatives, but that's obviously bullshit.)
Because teams pick 2 or 3 #9's in their national squad and, with the exception of the very talented young Ramos, what other one or two Portuguese #9''s in their prime would be any better than Ronaldo?
If Portugal had the same strength in depth in #9's as in some other areas then, yeah, he'd be keeping out some top talent and I'd question whether, at 38, that would be valid. But his position is one that there's a dearth of talent in their prime as alternatives, so I don't see the issue with him and Ramos being the two options selected.
Does that count as a Freudian slip?
(Just found it interesting. A very odd thing to say. I mean, you obviously know that he doesn't, so why would you...never mind. Carry on.)
Then name them. Andre Silva having already been acknowledged as the next likely option.
Portugal have a lot of small, skilful AM's or wide strikers. So plenty of creative / attacking talent around the #9. But #9's other than Ronaldo, Ramos and Silva?
Last edited:
Unless they expect him to be available for the next tournament then the time/development should be given to a younger talent.
Maybe he will still be good enough in 2 years, its a risk though
You have Ramos, Silva, Leao, Jota and Felix as attacking options and Ronaldo started over Ramos in both matches against fodder.
I'd be very surprised to see Ronaldo start against bigger nations where they need a fluid front 3 in the future, but they don't have any big nations in their group, so I guess Ronaldo will see his 200th cap in the next international break.