We got rid of Ronaldo without even having a reliable number 9 and since then we’ve won 19 out of 26 games in all competitions, winning a trophy, while scoring 54 goals.
An obvious point that is missed by some here.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Come on.
He's finished at the top level, that's all that matters. Nobody but an increasingly bizarre set of fans (of him, personally) cares about what he's still able to do in South Armenia or against Luxembourg.
He's selected - and started, not least - for reasons other than what he actually offers on the pitch.
(Given his personality, I'd add other than what he offers off the pitch too.)
With the world cup being a winter one, the turnaround between December 2022 and June/July 2024 has obviously been decided to be short enough for Ronaldo (and maybe Pepe who withdrew injured but was called up, aged 40) to have one last tournament in him. Same with the likes of Pepe, Modric, Giroud and the other late 30's players who didn't retire after the world cup.
Three replies, and not one alternative #9 named. I guess that proves the points about any valid alternatives.
Yes, of course for tactical reasons they can go in some games with a more mobile, fluid front line of the wingers / false #9's.
But still room in the squad for #9's. And still no additions to the Ronaldo, Ramos, Silva options. So, yeah, valid to pick any of those in the squad for me. Valid to start with some. Valid to go in with false nines at times. All valid. The intense desire from some to see one of those small number of options omitted clearly comes more from a seething dislike rather than because of superior options (which are failing to be named).
Its no obvious to me, I don't pretend to be a mind reader, especially not one of collective minds
Of course all of that means nothing compared to scoring in knockout games of the WC. All those goals in big games means nothing because in 2006 he didn't score against Netherlands (was injured and had to leave), England and France, in 2010 he didn't score against Euro and eventual World Champion Spain, in 2018 didn't score against Uruguay and in 2022 as a sub didn't score vs both Switzerland and Morocco.
His record in the Champions League is way more impressive than any of those. Why? Not only he is the best scorer in those knockout games (especially the later ones) he also started in Sporting (didn't even qualify from the playoffs iirc) then went to a Manchester United in transition as a foreigner wonderkid playing wide that had to work his way up. Messi literally started in a Champions League winner team with sub appearances. Haaland is good but still too young to evaluate in full, Lewa and Benzema are also great but not as influential as Ronaldo was for a longer period.
You're right, Messi scored 4 penalties in 7 goals, I was confusing it with him getting 5 penalties in 7 games.
So Messi only scored in the WC knockouts this year, I imagine he would have been a trash player if he didnt. But people already were saying his 2014 WC proved he was legendary, why did the "scored in the knockouts" suddenly became a metric?
And guess what, I know you can't wrap your mind about that, I really think Messi is legendary and already was, he didn't need some games at the end of his career to decide if he was good or not. He is not at fault for Argentina's shortcomings neither Ronaldo is at Portugal's.
Also Messi has 26 goals in 60 games, it's 0.43 goals per game, even worse than Ronaldo. Is he bad now? And I'm assuming the Copa is as hard as the Euro (just compare the teams they faced) - oh wait he didn't even score vs Uruguay or Brazil, his main rivals, there, and even against Chile only did in this last Copa in the meaningless group stage (everyone qualifies but Bolivia). Messi is crap by your own analysis and that shows how really bad your argument is.
It seems you already confirmed you would be downplaying Ronaldo if their WC performances would be swapped because Ronaldo is trash in your mind no matter what. The fact that he did it almost everywhere (the WC is the only thing missing) is just a big coincidence, he is just lucky and a stat padder.
The difference was those players were actually good in the World Cup and didn’t fall out with the manager and get dropped after a huff for being substituted.
Everything Ronaldo did in the second half of 2022 was pure toxic for the teams around him, so now that Martinez has started him, how does he take him out of the team without Ronaldo throwing his toys out of the pram and complaining?
True. I made that same point myself earlier in the day, so annoyed with myself for wording it like that!
I should have said that, given players usually retire after a major tournament rather than mid cycle, then it may have been decided that the likes of Ronaldo, Pepe, Modric, Giroud, etc, have one more tournament in them given the quick turnaround to the next one and given they've started the qualifiers for it rather than retiring after the world cup.
Well you dont have to be a mind reader because martinez said he expects Ronaldo to lead the team to euro 2024, maybe he's lying but it is what he has said
https://dailypost.ng/2023/03/27/euro-2024-what-roberto-martinez-said-about-portugal-captain-ronaldo/
I have always said the biggest black mark on Messi’s career was no knockout goal in the World Cup before the tournament and years before, then he scored in every knockout game in 2022 and changed the narrative.
Since the 2018 World Cup, almost the only thing Messi and Ronaldo could do to change their legacies was the 2022 World Cup and it was a disaster for Ronaldo and a triumph for Messi. Of course it mattered. Anyway this isn’t about Messi vs Ronaldo at all, because that argument is pretty much over and nobody wants to go back to it.
How much of his preparation was damaged by his crap with United before the tournament? He could have been a leader and been a player who sacrificed even the slightest bit of himself for others. But his ego wouldn’t allow it. Self-inflicted.
Ronaldo can't really win now.
Scores 4 goals in 2 international qualifiers - well it's the opposition are crap - he should be scoring 5.
Scores 4 goals in 2 international qualifiers - well it's the opposition are crap - he should be scoring 5.
Maybe you should read my previous post which was that it only makes sense if they intend him to lead the team in the next tournament.
Also where I also mentioned thats a risk, for obvious reasons
It looks like that's what martinez is saying though, that he expects Ronaldo to lead the team at the next tournament
Nobody … said … that?Ronaldo can't really win now.
Scores 4 goals in 2 international qualifiers - well it's the opposition are crap - he should be scoring 5.
Well, it is.Ronaldo can't really win now.
Scores 4 goals in 2 international qualifiers - well it's the opposition are crap - he should be scoring 5.
Still, he should be given due credit: he can still climb two flights of stairs unassisted, and get out of a chair aided by just a single nun.
How many did ramos score when he came on against the same weak opposition?
feck him, he is a bellend. Ten Hag sorted the cnut and we are better off without him, that is all that matters.
Difference is Messi was never detrimental to his NT like Ronaldo was this year. Portugal's record in the last 10 years without Ronaldo is also far better than Argentina's without Messi. Remove goals from both Ronaldo and Messi and Messi is still comfortably ahead. Remove Messi's PK's this WC and he still had a fantastic tournament.
And South American teams have been knocking out Ronaldo in recent tourneys prior to 2022 with Chile and Uruguay.
I wasn't being entirely serious but I could get people's poin if they'd played terribly with Ronaldo then Ramos came on to replace him. Martinez is new to Portugal, he's obviously decided to give their best player for the last 15 years a chance to prove himself, and while the opposition has been weak, he hasn't given martinez a reason to drop him yet
After he came back he scored 19 goals in 40 matches in the Premier League.
Thats almost .5 pr game. What strikers have delivered better than that for us the last 20 years? The only one i can think of is RVP. And his ratio is only a tad better.
He had a good first season no doubt, terrible second
20% of those were against Norwich in fairness. Ibra was scoring against City, Liverpool, Everton (top 7 that season)
He scored some goals, but did you watch us play? Compare us with him with before and after him and it‘s hard to make a case he was good for us. He was a horrible fit for us from day one, both on and off the pitch.
Ronaldo was detrimental? In the knockout stages this year he wasn't even a starter. He did play well vs Uruguay but was crap vs Ghana and South Korea (like the rest of Portugal). He seemed to be on par with the team overall performance.
In 2018 Ronaldo got 4 goals in 4 games, saving us from certain defeat vs Spain and getting the winning goal vs Morocco. He literally qualified us, but not scoring against Uruguay turns it into a terrible WC? (Pick Messi in any Copa then because he never did, nor vs Brazil). Ronaldo never got further in the WC (except in 2006 in which he was injured by Boularouz in the first knockout stage game), of course he never did a fantastic tournament. And he had for most of the time to partner with Postiga, Hugo Almeida, old Liedson, etc.
Remove the goals from them in the last 10 years then and compare, I'm curious.
Portugal eliminated Uruguay this year, and can we start counting the european teams that have eliminated Argentina then? This is a non-argument.
Can anyone who actually saw the match as well report on how he played? All this debate on here and I feel most of you didn't even see the game. I'm just curious
Never thought I would see him play in the Saudi league. I guess Father Time doesn’t wait, even for CR7.
At least he has won a trophy or two for Portugal, so don’t think he has any regrets.
At least he has won a trophy or two for Portugal, so don’t think he has any regrets.
It’s nothing to do with him being the only player who scored against these sides or giving him a chance to show he’s still got it, it’s his legacy, brand and the sheer size of his name that creates the pressure that has him still starting games because elsewhere any sane manager would be dropping this player to give that time to a younger player who can contribute at the next major tournament, providing he was dropping a player with equal ability to Ronaldo (I’m talking about his present ability) who didn’t have his stature of course. Because let’s be honest, the minute Portugal come up a half decent side, Ronaldo will be a real problem again.
I think most players would drop out for the good of their country and their dignity and wouldn’t be clinging on at age 38 for one very self centred reason, especially after a dismal World Cup where his sheer presence (and the circus surrounding him) was absolutely toxic, similar to how it was at United. By the way, very few players will have played consistently in a side as strong as Portugal from age 18 to 38 so very few will even get close to the chances needed to score so many goals against these sides, there’s also the important detail that very few players will ever be as good as he was at his peak. By the way I know there are people who love to portray Portugal as some mediocre side with mediocre talent that’s been propped up by Ronaldo through the years, but it’s just nonsense. Anyway regardless of this, he’s still scored about 10% of his international goals against one tiny nation with a population of 600,000.
It’s only yourself and a few select others who are intent on trying to pass his scoring against two European minnows as some sort of feat, or who get angry and triggered by others mocking the quality of opposition. God knows why the same people still drag Messi into it too, he’s irrelevant to this and bringing his name into it off the back of a starring role in a World Cup win that’ll be remembered forever just makes no sense.
Now you’ve even got RedRonaldo trying to talk the Saudi league up to be something more than the complete pile of crap it is which is something I imagined would happen the minute he signed on there, it’s desperate stuff. And at the end of the day, he showed United absolutely no respect whatsoever, so let fans be angry with him and let fans mock him, they’re well within their right. It’s the ones who still have their lips glued to his hindquarters even after his behaviour at United who are the really bewilder me, but I guess those are new modern breed of fan who follow players and not clubs.
Tbh, regardless of how he left the second time, I still support him as a player because he was such a key part of great childhood memories. I was a couple of years too young to see 99 live, so 08 is the only time I've seen us win the CL, it also looked like Jose's Chelsea were going to dominate forever and Ronaldo was a huge part in changing that, how he acted in his second stint at 37 won't diminish his legacy for me.
What I see is that martinez is giving Ronaldo a chance, based on his previous 15 years, and taking a chance that his last year of decline has had more to do with other issues than a terminal decline in ability. So far he's done fine in 2 games, he's scored 4 goals, the opposition wasn't great, but he hasn't done anything to get dropped over. Seriously its bizarre that people can't see that being your country's all time leading scorer, greatest ever player and all round icon buys you a little bit of goodwill that a few bad months doesn't undo. If he really isn't up to it then he won't keep playing, but so far playing him in these two games haven't backfired on martinez, if it does, then he'll either drop Ronaldo or pay the price for not dropping him, but you can't act as though he hasn't earned the chance to perform under a new Portugal manager
From Portugal's point of view it is an absolutely terrible idea to select him for 2 reasons:
1. They need to build for the future and Ronaldo is obviously on a downward slope and the past; he will be even worse come Euro 2024.
2. Ronaldo comes with a circus that destabilises the whole team.
Great post.
His goals were interspersed with long droughts and when he did not score, he made the team worse.
That's a complete lie. Its either you made all that up yourself, or you are just kind of delude. Bottom line is, I never said anything near to your description here.
Really? It was only earlier today so it should still be fresh in the memory. See below
It’s nowhere near the level of Europes top 5 leagues, of course. You’re still trying to make a case for it being a good level with the bolded part, and not for the first time either.That’s quite a stretch. Those are still top division/best league in Asia, in a country regular qualifies for WC, and also manage to produce club reaching 2nd place this year in world club cup, beating the best club from South America. But true it’s nowhere near the level of Europe’s top 5 league, not even close. But it’s still much closer to that level than your five a side competition.
give this man a fecking chapeau already, spot on
Only replying to this portion of your post but he clearly didn't say what you're trying to say. He said they're nowhere near European leagues but the best league in Asia which is pretty spot on. You also know he didn't say that but are trying to corner him
Excellent post, couldn`t have said it better.
He was detrimental to Portugal this season for sure.
And yet, they contended against Morocco while he was on the bench and not when he came on the pitch, so was he really that detrimental. They hammered Switzerland but didn't they also do that a few months prior with Ronaldo playing? Ramos didn't contribute any more against Morocco in his 45 mins than Ronaldo did in his
Ronaldo was shocking this World Cup to the point he had to be dropped. Plenty of other players looked better in his absence. And big difference in a World Cup match Vs playing at home.
He was the biggest blemish of this WC and became a laughing stock on top of his united exit.
he’s a solid player and many years from now people will rightfully remember him as the second best player of his generation. But him trying to hang on last his sell date and looking painful out there isn’t helping.