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Edwin van der Sar has been approached to become Director of Football
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crossy1686
career ending
Can we finally let this absolute non story die?
Which is not surprising. Being the CEO(leading the administrative side of an entity) and being the head of an other department require different knowledges and mentalities.Tweet
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He's tried playing DoF and it's been bad for the club.
Agreed.Which is not surprising. Being the CEO(leading the administrative side of an entity) and being the head of an other department require different knowledges and mentalities.
The moment he had to make decisions on the football side of the club without a DoF in charge, he's shown a real inexperience on how to lead on the football side of the club due to his lack of experience. And like you say it's not a surprise either if his role at Ajax on the administrative side is understood.
flameinthesun
Full Member
Probably need longer than 6 months to judge a "reconstruction" of a club.
UnitedSofa
You'll Never Walk Away
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So we're giving 'time' to him now and not extending the same to Murtough who had shit thrown is way mere months into the job? Nice.Probably need longer than 6 months to judge a "reconstruction" of a club.
He has been leading the club for more than 6 months. You kind of hope that he didn't start the "reconstruction", 6 months ago.Probably need longer than 6 months to judge a "reconstruction" of a club.
flameinthesun
Full Member
I'm happy for you to highlight one of my posts doing the above...So we're giving 'time' to him now and not extending the same to Murtough who had shit thrown is way mere months into the job? Nice.
red thru&thru
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I remember there was a tool on this forum trying to belittle for when I said Edwin would be a bad choice as a DoF as he's a CEO.
Wonder if they'll show themselves up now?!
Wonder if they'll show themselves up now?!
I don't know if it's just a lack of experience. When you look at sports in general, the difference between a good, average or bad technical decision maker isn't experience. The good ones appreciate things differently, they are wired in a way that allow them to do things in a way that works in a particular context.Agreed.
The moment he had to make decisions on the football side of the club without a DoF in charge, he's shown a real inexperience on how to lead on the football side of the club due to his lack of experience. And like you say it's not a surprise either if his role at Ajax on the administrative side is understood.
As an example someone can be very good at dealing with certain things like having to find new cheap and average players every 18 months, while someone else may be good at finding players that need developing but have a higher ceiling. Someone may be good at dealing with super agents while someone else may be good at dealing with independent scouting networks. Finding high level coaches and building a high level coaching staff isn't necessarily something that everyone can do.
And you see that in literally all sports, successful teams generally don't do things the same way which explains why you rarely see a DOF or one of his subordinate move to an other club/league and find success.
What I meant was that Van der Sar never had the experience of leading the multiple departments on the football side of the club in a DoF capacity to begin with and wanted to have a go at being a CEO/DoF according to the below tweets.I don't know if it's just a lack of experience. When you look at sports in general, the difference between a good, average or bad technical decision maker isn't experience. The good ones appreciate things differently, they are wired in a way that allow them to do things in a way that works in a particular context.
As an example someone can be very good at dealing with certain things like having to find new cheap and average players every 18 months, while someone else may be good at finding players that need developing but have a higher ceiling. Someone may be good at dealing with super agents while someone else may be good at dealing with independent scouting networks. Finding high level coaches and building a high level coaching staff isn't necessarily something that everyone can do.
And you see that in literally all sports, successful teams generally don't do things the same way which explains why you rarely see a DOF or one of his subordinate move to an other club/league and find success.
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I know what you meant. My point was that even with experience, there is nothing suggesting that he will be good at it.
That's true, but without having a understanding of the structural and staffing requirements on the football side of the club, it makes it difficult for anyone who has no prior experience in such a role to begin with.I know what you meant. My point was that even with experience, there is nothing suggesting that he will be good at it.
Like Dan Ashworth says in the podcast linked below. The structure on the football side of club is like a big wheel with 7 departments, and his job is to align and connect to those departments, where everyone is working together. I'm not sure that is the case at Ajax anymore with Overmars leaving.
https://trainingground.guru/articles/dan-ashworth-inside-the-mind-of-a-technical-director
Golden Nugget
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I have no idea if how he’s done in Ajax, but all that tweet says is that he signed that coach without consulting the DF he was going to hire, and carried the responsibilities with Hunterlaar and some other guy. It’s hardly indication that he’s done an awful job
Drainy
Full Member
I'm sure the issue has been his change in role and not their manager and half the players leaving
Sky1981
Fending off the urge
There's no good dof or ceo. Just good manager and luck of the cycle
Revaulx
Full Member
Indeed. And prior to being CEO he was Marketing Director, which is even further from the football side.Agreed.
The moment he had to make decisions on the football side of the club without a DoF in charge, he's shown a real inexperience on how to lead on the football side of the club due to his lack of experience. And like you say it's not a surprise either if his role at Ajax on the administrative side is understood.
tenpoless
No 6-pack, just 2Pac
And good owners with bottomless walletThere's no good dof or ceo. Just good manager and luck of the cycle
Revaulx
Full Member
Yeah. We should never have let go of Ed Woodward.There's no good dof or ceo. Just good manager and luck of the cycle
Sky1981
Fending off the urge
To be fair Ed might work well with SAF. Actually most DOF would work well with SAFYeah. We should never have let go of Ed Woodward.
Revaulx
Full Member
Really? That’s a hell of an assumption.To be fair Ed might work well with SAF. Actually most DOF would work well with SAF
He’d been around for ever, was massively liked and respected even by bitter rivals, and could call on a vast global support network to help him with signings. Imagine Ed pestering him to sign a player just because his agent had been on the phone telling Ed what a great idea it would be. That would have irked SAF no end.
Rightnr
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They're all the same...There's no good dof or ceo. Just good manager and luck of the cycle
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Would love to have been a fly on SAF office wall.Really? That’s a hell of an assumption.
He’d been around for ever, was massively liked and respected even by bitter rivals, and could call on a vast global support network to help him with signings. Imagine Ed pestering him to sign a player just because his agent had been on the phone telling Ed what a great idea it would be. That would have irked SAF no end.
Revaulx
Full Member
Indeed!Would love to have been a fly on SAF office wall.
Wednesday at Stoke
Full Member
I think there's more to it than a single director or a CEO, its more a single minded commitment to a process and doing things in a consistent manner as a club-wide operation. A club like Brighton are a living example of this. They lost their technical director, manager and recruitment staff within the span of a year and continue to motor on, unearthing good players and consistently beating the likes of Liverpool this season.There's no good dof or ceo. Just good manager and luck of the cycle
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I agree with you about a consistent approach, and I understand what you're trying to say about Brighton, but I think it's too early to say if their new TD and rec. staff will find gems like their previous ones were.I think there's more to it than a single director or a CEO, its more a single minded commitment to a process and doing things in a consistent manner as a club-wide operation. A club like Brighton are a living example of this. They lost their technical director, manager and recruitment staff within the span of a year and continue to motor on, unearthing good players and consistently beating the likes of Liverpool this season.
Mainoldo
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Pretty much highlights what I’ve always been saying. The most important job at the club is the manager.
rimaldo
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no. it’s the cleaner as without them you’d be stuck trying to pee the poo stains off the stairs.Pretty much highlights what I’ve always been saying. The most important job at the club is the manager.
phelans shorts
Full Member
Yeah I was going to say this. They’re essentially at the moment still able to just carry on with all of the previous lots work, this is when they’re looking at what’s next that’s what they’ll really be judged on.I agree with you about a consistent approach, and I understand what you're trying to say about Brighton, but I think it's too early to say if their new TD and rec. staff will find gems like their previous ones were.
That being said, De Zerbi was a great hire, his Sassuolo were great.
Sky1981
Fending off the urge
Lfc was hailed as having all that. Dof. Ceo. Even owner. Now they're as bad as Gillet and Hicks.I think there's more to it than a single director or a CEO, its more a single minded commitment to a process and doing things in a consistent manner as a club-wide operation. A club like Brighton are a living example of this. They lost their technical director, manager and recruitment staff within the span of a year and continue to motor on, unearthing good players and consistently beating the likes of Liverpool this season.
Wednesday at Stoke
Full Member
LFC have the same issues we do. Owners who want out and gave up on running the club.Lfc was hailed as having all that. Dof. Ceo. Even owner. Now they're as bad as Gillet and Hicks.
Completely agree. It's a way of doing things on the structural side of the football club which is important and it involves a group of people on the football side who work together with the head coach to develop the team and strategize for the mid to long-term. Working together with the head coach is the key, hence the likes of Klopp, Guardiola and ten Hag have enjoyed success and longevity.I think there's more to it than a single director or a CEO, its more a single minded commitment to a process and doing things in a consistent manner as a club-wide operation. A club like Brighton are a living example of this. They lost their technical director, manager and recruitment staff within the span of a year and continue to motor on, unearthing good players and consistently beating the likes of Liverpool this season.
Woodward's biggest mistake imo was that when the recruitment structure was complete and modernised in 2016/17, and it was said by people within the football industry to be very impressive as far as the calibre of scouts that had been brought to the club from around Europe and the world. He then allowed Mourinho to operate independently from the club's newly formed recruitment department which caused him a issue and a transfer committee was born. Similar to what happened with Rodgers at Liverpool. And Mourinho and the scouts were constantly at loggerheads with vetos flying around.
Kaos
Full Member
To a degree yes, but it also helps having the right people to make the crucial decisions. Brighton seem a good model of that, they lose Potter yet look better than ever. Woodward was clearly the main culprit holding this club back for the best part of a decade, he would have likely brought in Poch instead of Ten Hag. Its no surprise our transfer strategy has vastly improved now he's fecked off too.They're the same owner, turns out theyr'e only as good as the manager they "luckily" found
There's no magic formula for 99.9% of football club. You just survive till y ou find your magic Manager
Liverpool found a manager (Klopp) who came in and worked with the existing structure which helped the club going forward. Klopp took charge of the first summer window in 2016, and signed mostly players that were either associated with the German or Austrian Bundesliga and it wasn't until the summer of 2017, that the Liverpool football department started signing players using the Klopp formula of targeting players for a high intensity playstyle without sacrificing the technical elements.
Edwards before that point was widely ridiculed.
Edwards before that point was widely ridiculed.
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Hey leave our Edwin alone
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TheRedHearted
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so wouldn’t you say that hes learned since then?Liverpool found a manager (Klopp) who came in and worked with the existing structure which helped the club going forward. Klopp took charge of the first summer window in 2016, and signed mostly players that were either associated with the German or Austrian Bundesliga and it wasn't until the summer of 2017, that the Liverpool football department started signing players using the Klopp formula of targeting players for a high intensity playstyle without sacrificing the technical elements.
Edwards before that point was widely ridiculed.