You can't continue to win or compete for title with Mctominay as your primary midfielder or Martial who is hardly fit or wout who is a burnley reject as you forwards. There is gaping holes in our squad and we have been super unfortunate with injuries to players in key positions.They're not dud players, he's got them playing in every competition deep into the season which has caused injuries and fatigue. He should have managed the competitions better, he's picked the same squad almost every game. We've got reserve players that could have played in the league cup, we didn't even play a difficult side en route to the final. Now we're paying the price.
All right then. Thanks. No need to watch any more games.The midfield is shit, we know that but it's his job to find something that works and he's not. It can't be down to Casemiro all the time to bail us out of the shit. He got Sabitzer in January, he sent Sancho away for months to get better, they're both shite. He needs to get a tune out of these players.
I see our future every time we play, we've been gash and continue to be gash. We're on the wrong end of batterings most weeks at the moment. We'll scrape through Sevilla, get another 2 games against Sporting, they'll smash us, Brighton will dump us out of the FA cup and we'll be sitting 5th or 6th by that point.
Then the narrative really changes.
Come of it.If this is legit and a goalkeeper isn’t one of our top three priorities, then the manager is writing his own P45 and you can legitimately ponder what a post-ETH United looks like. De Gea is an absolute millstone around the neck of this team. He will cost the manager his job.
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You cannot persist with De Gea. He is killing us, absolutely killing us.Come of it.
I mean, yes DDG should be replaced, but striker and midfield situation is or should be a top priority.
You go all guns blazing about 'post ETH United'. Jesus.
Of course you back him and hope for the best. What else is there to be done ?Then what do we do? Back him again in the summer, another £200m and hope for the best? I know we need new players but we should make top 4 this season with no danger at all.
All good man, but the stuff about ETH getting the sack and post United hurts my eyes. I'm just wondering why you didnt follow it with 'I like ETH'.You cannot persist with De Gea. He is killing us, absolutely killing us.
You won’t be able to play a higher defensive line, you won’t greatly reduce the number of goals conceded from crosses and set pieces, and you won’t be able to effectively play out from the back until that man is gone.
He’s barely a PL standard goalkeeper nowadays. Comfortably the weakest man near the first team. Zero interest from anyone, and I mean anyone at all, in competing for his signature this summer.
Well we have been, 7-0, then Fulham hammered us until they got everyone sent off and now Newcastle could have had 4. You fear the worst against Brentford this Wednesday night, they'll cut through us time and time again.All right then. Thanks. No need to watch any more games.
Also I like your definition of a hammering. Strange one. You keep repeating it.
People need to be alive to where we are.It could be a league cup, our biggest hiding ever to a rival and a europa league finish. That could literally be his United legacy at this point.
Strongly disagree. If we fail to get a CL spot in a season where both Chelsea and Liverpool have struggled, it will be a massive failure of a season despite League Cup.
But where is Mourinho? He was sacked not because of trophies but because the performance of the team did not improve to a higher level.Yes, any trophy would have done. Heck, I'd even say that finishing 5th and a League Cup would be better than 4th and no trophy. The rebuild was always going to be a gradual process and that run after the World Cup was quite unexpected. How many expected us to be in this position after Brentford away?
This is Ten Hag's first season. At the moment, he's on course to at least equal Mourinho. In his first season, we had as many bad moments as good (Like ETH) but the season was a success in the end.
If we're still losing every away game v a team in the top 6 next season, I'd be concerned. We're a long way from that.
Well nothing else I suppose but I just have a feeling this will all go tits up and it's avoidable if the manager just gets real for a second.Of course you back him and hope for the best. What else is there to be done ?
So you count a 3-1 win and a 2-0 defeat as 'hammerings'.Well we have been, 7-0, then Fulham hammered us until they got everyone sent off and now Newcastle could have had 4. You fear the worst against Brentford this Wednesday night, they'll cut through us time and time again.
He's right though. De Gea will cost him his job if he chooses to persist with him. We won't get anywhere with him in goal.All good man, but the stuff about ETH getting the sack and post United hurts my eyes. I'm just wondering why you didnt follow it with 'I like ETH'.
Because persisting with De Gea will only lead to the inevitable mediocrity on the field, which will eventually cost any manager his job. It doesn’t matter who the manager is.All good man, but the stuff about ETH getting the sack and post United hurts my eyes. I'm just wondering why you didnt follow it with 'I like ETH'.
Well yeah.Then what do we do? Back him again in the summer, another £200m and hope for the best? I know we need new players but we should make top 4 this season with no danger at all.
Very good postThing is, the games we lost against top half teams, there's zero argument to be had that those games could have gone either way - with luck, referee decisions, etc. We were comprehensively outplayed in every single one of them bar Arsenal at Emirates but even there the result flattered us as they were all over us. City, Liverpool, Brentford, Newcastle and Villa you could have zero discussion about, all were very heavy batterings where we could have probably conceded more (Liverpool game aside which was probably more of a 3-0/4-0 than 7-0).
Meanwhile our only convincing win against a top half team where you could say there was no other outcome possible was Spurs. Arsenal, Liverpool and City at Old Trafford were fair wins but were not firm, strong victories which I'd like to see come at some point. We have literally beaten one top half team in that manner all season.
I don't know how anyone could not have an issue with that. I know Brentford and Brighton were early in the season but we basically put in the same performance against Newcastle literally yesterday.
And I'm not even saying ETH is wrong for the job or trying to downplay the effect he's had on the club, just merely pointing out there is a serious issue with how we play against good teams and there's been almost no improvement with that over the course of season, which is concerning if our long term goal is to go toe to toe with those teams.
So a new keeper first, then midfield and attack?He's right though. De Gea will cost him his job if he chooses to persist with him. We won't get anywhere with him in goal.
There's plenty of teams in the league with worse midfields who remain solid, how do you think they manage it? Tactics or luck?You expect us to control games with their replacements, Fred and McTominay in midfield?
Why? What evidence is that based on?
Abso bloody exactlyWe've seen better performances than yesterday by using McTominay and Fred in positions they are familiar with.
No one has banged the 'quality of players are more important than any manager' drum more than me, but I was also told that with better coaching we should expect more from these players. Was I just right all along.
All are required.So a new keeper first, then midfield and attack?
Wonderful postIn my mind, it should always go without saying that a manager should get 3 years to establish their team, coaching setup, and style of play. I think it was a mistake we didn't give Van Gall another season, and I think it was a mistake not to keep Ole until the end of last season - I think things would've settled a bit and not looked quite as bad as they did at that precise moment.
Judging ETH only on results and progress in competitions, it's got to be a positive year. There's a very good chance we'll win at least one more trophy, and it shouldn't be too hard to get top 4. At the start of the season that would've looked excellent.
Having said that, some of the praise that's been given to him this season has been absurd. Journos have been lauding him as a 'genius' many times over, and people on here have been talking like the football has been silky smooth and light years away from previous seasons. It just hasn't. It's been improved by 2 particular quality additions (Martinez and Casamiro), a solid third (Erikson), and one of Rashford's hot streaks, but I don't see any significant improvement to any other element of our approach to matches, or 'mindset', or any of that nonsense people have been harping on about. I'm not saying we should expect there to be - we're less than one year in - but the genius talk has been bizarre.
It's very weird what bias and narrative can do. Many had formed their opinion long ago about Ole and were convinced that he was just a nice guy, not a good coach. But he'd coached well in a foreign league, come over, saved one season then had 2 really good seasons after that, interspersed with some purple patches, some great performances, some excellent results, and some awful dips. Under Ole, Bruno had an exceptional run of form, Rashford had ups and downs, Martial, Shaw and Fred too. But people had made their minds up that the guy with the roll-neck sweater was Pep incarnate, and even when the return is almost identical to those seasons under Ole, have hailed it to be galaxy brain excellence.
But have those people actually watched us since the world cup? Have people seen the persistence in playing a lanky guy as a high-press, drop-deep, false nine every single game with absolutely no goal return, impactful hold-up play, or even aerial threat? Imagine Ole playing Wout like that? Carnage! Does winning a tin pot trophy make so much difference? Do people remember we were 11 penalties into a shootout close to winning the Europe League under Ole? or that we won the league cup and Europe league under Mourinho? and the FA cup under Van Gaal? Did that change the world? Were any of those particularly relevant?
People are so blinkered. We did ok with Ole for a bit and then the wheels came off when Ronaldo returned. Things are OK with Ten Hag and should hopefully get better with the right investment in the right areas. You don't have to be team OGS or team ETH. We're a pretty average team playing pretty disjointed, average football. Just like we have been for most of the last ten years. Those arguing that the football has been treacle are too invested in the narrative they want to be true.
Let's give this current guy a chance - things are hopefully moving forward and it's not a false dawn. But don't claim him as the messiah for Christ's sake. So far he's performing right about par with the squad he has. No need to get rid of him, no reason to birth his children, no reason to panic, no reason to celebrate.
I'd even say that the more limited the player, the less chances he'd have of performing well in an unfamiliar position (McT as 10, WW as 10 in other games).We've seen better performances than yesterday by using McTominay and Fred in positions they are familiar with.
No one has banged the 'quality of players are more important than any manager' drum more than me, but I was also told that with better coaching we should expect more from these players. Was I just right all along.
You've been trying to "hit gold" for seasons come and gone.We're still a work in progress in today's game we were hurt by Newcastle high press. We can't play from the back too many players that aren't comfortable on the ball. De Gea is a liability and McTominay virtually hides away from receiving under pressure.
With Casemiro and Eriksen back we solve that problem, but still we need depth. We need to hit gold with our next transfers. We have way too many passengers in the team. Players such as McTominay, Sabitzer and Specially Weghorst shouldn't be starting for us but they are because there's no one else we can use at the moment.
I trust Ten Hag, back him and he'll deliver. It's frustrating having this set backs and being outplayed but right now we're clearly lacking quality as a squad overall.
Bad games can happen. I think we should wait until the summer to judge him, as before the season began we’d have all been over the moon with top 4 and a cup.Yes, every manager has to deal with injuries and fatigue, I can understand that. However; we cannot keep using fatigue as a reasoning when we have just had a 2 week break, yes some players played in the international break but alot had a 1 week off minimum.
Lack of reinforcements for a manager than spent 230m in the summer, is not an excuse. It seems we are the only played loads of games and we can be bad for 6 weeks and use it as an excuse.
This is the only thing I would criticise him for. There’s been a couple of games this season we could have rotated and didn’t. Ajax fans warned us about this too.We also rotated very little when we could have, which was praised at the time as it got us results but seems to be taking its toll now. For instance there was no reason to play a strong team against Nottingham at home after winning 3-0 away, yet we did it. It is taking its toll now in what is going to be our longest season in history.
It could also be 3rd place with 3 cups in his first season. That’s why I’ll wait until the end of the season before weighing up his first year.It could be a league cup, our biggest hiding ever to a rival and a europa league finish. That could literally be his United legacy at this point.
He's not the only one.Wow, i can't believe that you are the same person who defended Ole to the death and called out all critics as no true fans?
Yeah but cant we buy all in the same transfer window? Especially since we'll probably need 2 Cms and maybe even 2 strikers.All are required.
We need 2 strikers and 2 mids and a new RB before a goalieIf this is legit and a goalkeeper isn’t one of our top three priorities, then the manager is writing his own P45 and you can legitimately ponder what a post-ETH United looks like. De Gea is an absolute millstone around the neck of this team. He will cost the manager his job.
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I can't see us signing two strikers at all. We need to be serious and stop messing about with this keeper.Yeah but cant we buy all in the same transfer window? Especially since we'll probably need 2 Cms and maybe even 2 strikers.
I thought we were woeful at home Vs Barca. That first half they battered us but were just toothless in attack. If they took their chances in that first half then it would have been tie over.That's not entirely true.
We completely outplayed Barcelona with a makeshift team somewhat. We dominated Betis(who gave Real problems).
There were signs of our football progressing in the right direction. It's gone downhill since the Carabao cup final though.
Don't know? I'd be happy if it just said "good" instead. Maybe De Jong is an 8?What's a No.8 midfielder again ?
Well one at least we must get. And as I said CM and striker position is or should be a top priority.I can't see us signing two strikers at all. We need to be serious and stop messing about with this keeper.
Box to box.What's a No.8 midfielder again ?
Yep, that's the test isnt it? Top 4 and a cup. We have achieved one of it.Bad games can happen. I think we should wait until the summer to judge him, as before the season began we’d have all been over the moon with top 4 and a cup.
the one that doesn't shit their pants under small pressureWhat's a No.8 midfielder again ?
Even if you think they battered us in the 1st half, we battered them more in the 2nd half.I thought we were woeful at home Vs Barca. That first half they battered us but were just toothless in attack. If they took their chances in that first half then it would have been tie over.
We've been poor for a while I think and results have massively masked performances. I said a while ago that it felt like some periods under Ole where we didn't play well but we're killing teams in moments on the break or with a bit of individual quality. I think we're quite predictable and it does feel like teams have sussed us out. Even going back to when Eriksen was still playing just before injury, there were some poor performances then that Eriksen was partly to blame for. People said it at the time, so that shows how long it's been going on in the background. Just we got the results back then.
I get that we could have rotated but that was middle of January, we are now in March.We also rotated very little when we could have, which was praised at the time as it got us results but seems to be taking its toll now. For instance there was no reason to play a strong team against Nottingham at home after winning 3-0 away, yet we did it. It is taking its toll now in what is going to be our longest season in history.
Exactly. What I've been saying all through.There's plenty of teams in the league with worse midfields who remain solid, how do you think they manage it? Tactics or luck?
There's always this lazy analysis that we need 11 world class players or we can't cope. Newcastle had a much harder time against Notts Forrest and Bournemouth than they did us yesterday, it's not just player quality sometimes it's the use of the players.
We all know these players weaknesses as should the manager, when we have to rely on them we need to play to their limits. We failed to do so yesterday and just went with our normal gameplan.
