Does The Netherlands have a fan/hooliganism problem?

horsechoker

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Trouble with Alkmaar yesterday

A match cancelled between Ajax and FC Gronigen

Another cancelled because of having a beer thrown at a ref

Ajax midfielder Davy Klassen hit by a lighter hurled from the crowd

Is Dutch football getting out of control? Why is this happening?

@KirkDuyt
 
It all started when they heard that vitamins are important for your well-being. When they couldn't find any "fight-amins" on the market they just assumed that it meant steroids. The rest is history.
 
I‘d say yes there is a problem. We have been too soft on hooligans, but that is changing.

Also you should mention that AZ family+friends were harassed at West Ham, what happened in Alkmaar was a retaliation ( by braindead boys).
 
NLunited said:
I‘d say yes there is a problem. We have been too soft on hooligans, but that is changing.

Also you should mention that AZ family+friends were harassed at West Ham, what happened in Alkmaar was a retaliation ( by braindead boys).
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West Ham fans would never do anything bad
 
As such a tall nation I'm surprised it's taken them this long to assert their violence on the world.
 
horsechoker said:
Trouble with Alkmaar yesterday

A match cancelled between Ajax and FC Gronigen

Another cancelled because of having a beer thrown at a ref

Ajax midfielder Davy Klassen hit by a lighter hurled from the crowd

Is Dutch football getting out of control? Why is this happening?

@KirkDuyt
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but :lol:
 
horsechoker said:
Trouble with Alkmaar yesterday

A match cancelled between Ajax and FC Gronigen

Another cancelled because of having a beer thrown at a ref

Ajax midfielder Davy Klassen hit by a lighter hurled from the crowd

Is Dutch football getting out of control? Why is this happening?

@KirkDuyt
Click to expand...
Bit harsh to blame it all on one person.
 
horsechoker said:
Trouble with Alkmaar yesterday

A match cancelled between Ajax and FC Gronigen

Another cancelled because of having a beer thrown at a ref

Ajax midfielder Davy Klassen hit by a lighter hurled from the crowd

Is Dutch football getting out of control? Why is this happening?

@KirkDuyt
Click to expand...
AZ took revenge for last week since West Ham fans attacked them there I believe.

Having said that, yes it's a bit out of control and our government should enforce punishment better, because it's definitely possible of you look at the UK. Though I guess English hooligans now use international football to fight.

Oh and I threw a battery at Klaassen not a lighter. Why would I waste a good lighter.
 
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I recommend you read

Bernardo Buarque de Hollanda, Thomas Busset: Football Fandom in Europe and Latin America: Culture, Politics, and Violence in the 21st Century

which

  • includes Bertrand Fincoeur: From Stands to Forests: The Development of Belgian and Dutch Football Hooliganism, p. 107-125
  • was published in January 2023
  • covers the topic on a wide scale, (indicating that we are talking about cultural changes in all of western europe, immigration and inclusion related policies, heck even how martial arts influence and KOTS projects a tavesty of defending group values into brains the size of birds)
  • costs a hundred quid, but
  • can be downloaded from my cloud
Edit: Added Spaaij's thesis Understanding football hooliganism into the folder, see here, a good read albeit somewhat old/outdated in the sense that time overtook it; still a fundamental paper for what followed since.
 
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Trumpeter Whydah said:
I recommend you read

Bernardo Buarque de Hollanda, Thomas Busset: Football Fandom in Europe and Latin America: Culture, Politics, and Violence in the 21st Century

which

  • includes Bertrand Fincoeur: From Stands to Forests: The Development of Belgian and Dutch Football Hooliganism, p. 107-125
  • was published in January 2023
  • covers the topic on a wide scale, (indicating that we are talking about cultural changes in all of western europe, immigration and inclusion related policies, heck even how martial arts influence and KOTS projects a tavesty of defending group values into brains the size of birds)
  • costs a hundred quid, but
  • can be downloaded from my cloud
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Post of the year
 
horsechoker said:
Trouble with Alkmaar yesterday

A match cancelled between Ajax and FC Gronigen

Another cancelled because of having a beer thrown at a ref

Ajax midfielder Davy Klassen hit by a lighter hurled from the crowd

Is Dutch football getting out of control? Why is this happening?

@KirkDuyt
Click to expand...

Because of a new rule the match HAS to be cancelled when a fan throws something onto the field. So a lot of matches are getting cancelled right now because of that. Usually there's not really a problem except when Ajax/Feyenoord play each other and when we play in Europe.
So i wouldn't really say it's worse than in any other country.
 
It's not just the Netherlands, it's continent wide. But the media never discusses it because it isn't convenient for them to do so. As a former steward at United, I was lucky not to see the Feyenoord ultras cause issues at OT, but French ones at the St Ettiene fans were violent. Also other fans were caught with pyros and all sorts.
 
KirkDuyt said:
AZ took revenge for last week since West Ham fans attacked them there I believe.

Having said that, yes it's a bit out of control and our government should enforce punishment better, because it's definitely possible of you look at the UK. Though I guess English hooligans now use international football to fight.

Oh and I threw a battery at Klaassen not a lighter. Why would I waste a good lighter.
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Where's the evidence these clashes even happened?
 
To be fair it’s not just Holland. France have had huge issues. Spain and Italy to a lesser extent. It’s a reflection of society I believe. People definitely feel a lot more untouchable these days and are quite happy to break the law at a whim. When you factor in the increased abuse footballers and opposition fans are receiving at games and online again it isn’t a surprise this is manifesting to physical violence at football matches.

Doesn’t seem to be spreading too much to these shores but I’ve definitely noticed an increase in “ultra factions” in the U.K. Arsenal, Rangers and Aberdeen off the top of my head. Dressing up in all black, masked up, letting off flares etc.
Rangers fans have numerous ‘ACAB’ banners at their matches. I think that encourages unlawfulness so shouldn’t really be allowed really.
I’m all for increasing the atmosphere but it doesn’t need to be at the cost of everyone acting like animals.
 
The AZ 'fans' took revenge for what happend during the first game. The kids and wife of the manager had to be placed somewhere else because West Ham fans harrased them. That is enough reason to start a fight during the second game... atleast if you are a brain dead football hooligan. Apparently FC Groningen hooligans were also in Alkaar fighting the West Ham fans for some reason.

For Groningen, we are having a horrible season. We are already relegated while having the seventh budget in the league. The technical director sold all good players and bought young players back to make a profit. That totally failed, the team is really bad. Fans blame the board (rightfully so) and decide the best way to show their displeasure is to run onto the pitch multiple times, hit Jetro Willems (former Newcastle player) on the head and throw smokebombs onto the pitch. The match against Ajax was cancelled because we are already relegated and Groningen fans dislike Ajax because they are ''arrogant people from Amsterdam'' and see Ajax as a rival for some reason. The hooligans already announced they would do something because they thought it would be funny to make people travel from Amsterdam to Groningen for no reason and waste their time. Someone also ran onto the pitch with a sign saying ''Kanker bestuur. rot op'' which translates to ''Cancer board, feck off''. He got arrested because he couldnt show any IDcard but was released the day after. Its a civil matter between the club and the ''fan'' now. Unlike in England, criminal law doesnt apply in football here. Obviously criminal law applies when you punch someone during a football match but not when you enter the pitch.

Quite a few reports in the local media last few days about Groningen. There are about a few 100 something hooligan that are a problem. They threaten hospitality employees and the security (who are mostly volunteers) by saying that they know where they and/or their family live so security is afraid to stop or search them. Or the hooligans will threaten those employees into bringing fireworks in the stadium for them.

The mayor of Groningen decided that no fans are allowed during the last two games. The away game at Vitesse and home game against Sparta will be without Groningen fans.

A lot of other cancelled or suspended matches are because of the Klaassen incident. Since that moment the KNVB has a zero policy strategy right now. When something is thrown onto the pitch the games has to be suspended. Technically a piece of paper is enough now to suspended a match.
 
It's a strange dichotomy that hooliganism seems to be on the rise across continental Europe yet continental European police are a lot more heavy handed than British ones for example. It doesn't seem to act as a deterrent, they enjoy clashing with the police.

Also, do continental clubs ban known hooligans? Or are these "ultra" groups too powerful and almost untouchable when it comes to enforcing bans? An awful lot of these troublemakers seem to get tickets to matches very easily.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
It's a strange dichotomy that hooliganism seems to be on the rise across continental Europe yet continental European police are a lot more heavy handed than British ones for example. It doesn't seem to act as a deterrent, they enjoy clashing with the police.

Also, do continental clubs ban known hooligans? Or are these "ultra" groups too powerful and almost untouchable when it comes to enforcing bans? An awful lot of these troublemakers seem to get tickets to matches very easily.
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This made me think about the episode of South Park where Randy went to all of his son’s baseball games aiming to get into fights and then get arrested
 
English fans get a bad rep but I've definitely seen some bad behavior from big Euro football nations.

However, English fans in Amsterdam is probably some of the worst I've ever seen still...so rep deserved. To answer the thread yeah the Dutch have their fair share as well.
 
RaddyRed said:
As such a tall nation I'm surprised it's taken them this long to assert their violence on the world.
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It's because the long arm of the law is also there offsetting it.

On a serious note, it's not the Netherlands imo, it's Europe-wide and the problem is that of right wing extremism.

I go to Hungary a lot and it's quite apparent there but it's noticeable in a number of places, north and south of Europe.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
It’s due to the rise, globally, in right wing politics and divisive, tribal rhetoric coupled with increased poverty.

Perfect for Hooliganism to flourish.
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It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with lack of policing and crackdowns in continental europe where ultras and hooligans have always been embedded within these clubs, and it's not always about politics.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
It's a strange dichotomy that hooliganism seems to be on the rise across continental Europe yet continental European police are a lot more heavy handed than British ones for example. It doesn't seem to act as a deterrent, they enjoy clashing with the police.

Also, do continental clubs ban known hooligans? Or are these "ultra" groups too powerful and almost untouchable when it comes to enforcing bans? An awful lot of these troublemakers seem to get tickets to matches very easily.
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I find hooliganism is alive and well in The Netherlands while it's largely been blunted in The UK.
 
cyberman said:
Hash has become their Stella Artois.
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As somebody who partakes that couldn't be further from the truth. I have never seen somebody who's used weed/hash/other THC products and suddenly start ballooning and looking for trouble. All we want is snacks and music/TV.
 
klayton88 said:
As somebody who partakes that couldn't be further from the truth. I have never seen somebody who's used weed/hash/other THC products and suddenly start ballooning and looking for trouble. All we want is snacks and music/TV.
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..and bashing West Ham fans.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
It's a strange dichotomy that hooliganism seems to be on the rise across continental Europe yet continental European police are a lot more heavy handed than British ones for example. It doesn't seem to act as a deterrent, they enjoy clashing with the police.

Also, do continental clubs ban known hooligans? Or are these "ultra" groups too powerful and almost untouchable when it comes to enforcing bans? An awful lot of these troublemakers seem to get tickets to matches very easily.
Click to expand...

Nothing strange about it: English (club-)football has stamped/priced out its fan culture, so it's no surprise that they don't witness fan-related problems to the same extend as their European counterparts.

It also depends on what you define as trouble:

Someone throwing a beer at a ref is an idiot, but necessarily a hooligan or an ultra.

Burning pyro, I think a lot of clubs are simply fine with, as long as they don't throw it around the stadium.

Stuff that happens in the cities, outside the club's property, is not the responsibility of the club.

So when you factor in all of that there really isn't a lot to be done by the clubs most of the time.
 
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